Burned the cakes, and laid the foundations for West Ham United FC. My missus threw away my history of Newham wherein I told the story. Anyone fancy reconnecting the dots for me? (cakes are not involved)
QUOTE: Anyone fancy reconnecting the dots for me? (cakes are not involved) If there are no cakes, then I am not playing. OK, I will have a go later. You asked me this before.......and promised to give the answer, but I'd forgotten about it. Memory is a funny thing at my age.
No idea where to start, so I'll take a wild guess. Alfred was trying to throw out the Vikings; and they were a, or even, the sea power at the time. Alfred wanted to have some sort of sea defence, so he started a shipbuilding industry on the Thames. Somewhere in the region of where West Ham is now? I haven't the time to do research, so I' doing a sort of 20 questions thing. Right track, or not?
It was just a guess and I assume bugger means that I am on the right track. So, 1 Alfred starts boat building on the Thames. 2 The tradition continues through the years. Barges etc. The Thames barge was famous. 3 Thames iron works rises from the mud. 4 They start a football team, that includes my great grandfather Tammy, at right half and later change the name to West Ham Utd. they continue to be known as the Irons, or the hammers. Marks out of 10, please sir?
OK here goes... It was going to be longer. But here it is anyway… (from memory: my wife threw away the only copy of my history of Newham) In the year 895/6 a bunch of Vikings sailed up the Thames to attack London. There had been a series of raids in the preceding years but this one had the nature of an invasion; the Norsemen sailed up the river Lea and wintered somewhere near Cheshunt. From there they would have been a grave and permanent threat to the city, which although not the capital at the time (that was Winchester) was a thriving port and trading centre based around the Aldwych (Saxon for old Market). Alfred attacked but was repulsed with considerable loss. He had to find another way to get rid. He surrounded them and cut off their ability to ransack the local countryside. Then he hit on a plan of pure genius (or possibly folly). He dug a series of canals from the river Lea, reducing the flow of the river and preventing the men of the North from sailing out. Why folly? I don’t know about you but if there were a bunch of psychopathic Swedes starving slowly in my neighbourhood, I would want them to leave. Now. Take your ships with you. Bye. Of course the chances are that they would have sailed up river and attacked the city. So Alfred was probably right to act as he did. As it was, the Vikings bolted westward and were mopped up later in Shropshire. All very well but was has this got to do with West ham? (I seem to hear you ask). Well, as Norway has rightly surmised, the canals laid the basis for later industry. Water mills were placed on the banks of the canals which formed the basis for a thriving textile manufacture in the later middle ages. It was this industry which attracted vast amounts of foreign workers into the area; Dutch weavers, French Huguenots and the Irish. It was, therefore, these canals, dug by Alfred, (or more likely dug by a bunch of moaning, disgruntled, peasants – our ancestors!) which caused the western part of Hamme to become an industrial base and led ultimately to the creation of the Thames Ironworks, whose football team united with the wonderfully entitled ‘Old Castle Swifts’ to create West Ham United. I hereby nominate Alfred the Great to an honorary position on the board at West Ham. There is a precedent, Jeremy Bentham is still on the governing board of University College London and he’s been dead for centuries
I second the motion. I had to, but I was going to say, Oi, my ancestors weren't peasants. My ancestors were very much the ruling class mate; and it was only their support of Bonnie Prince Charlie that meant they lost their home and 'mini' kingdom of Skye. They went to Stirling and it was getting the kitchen maid pregnant, and insisting upon marrying her; that eventually led to my great grandfather walking to London and getting a job at the Thames Iron works. The rest? My Grandad, My Dad and me......plus a few uncles, brothers and cousins. All Hammers.
What little I know of my family they're all pretty much Peasants. My paternal great grandfather was an idiot Fenian, who when the rebellion against the English went belly up ran away....to England. What was he thinking: 'They'll never look for me here! Begorrah!'? The other side were French jews who arrived at the end of the nineteenth century. They married into a family that used to own Whitbreads, but lost it.
Thinking about it, I used to know THE MacDonald of Slate, who I'm guessing would therefore be your liege-lord
The name of the current laird, or dame, is McCleod. It was McNicol up to the 1700's. Before losing the land, they married their eldest daughter into the McCleod clan, thus ensuring a liitle of the right genes remained in power. The McNicols had been in power since the Roman times and were mentioned by that famous historian and chronicalist Tolo Mey, though I believe he spelt his name with a P. My mother's family are Irish and came from Cork. (Real Irish Rovers, Foley, was their name.) We could only trace them back 2 generations. Very few east enders are English, let alone Londoners. As you said, there were many from Holland, France, Ireland, Scotland; and later the Yiddish people and Lithuanians. Plus a few Italians. Bloody hell, we are a mixture. An interesting read for you might be London, by Edward Rutherford. It's an historical novel, but traces about 4 families from pre Roman times to the 20th century. He seems to do some decent research. You, being an historian, may find it a little too 'novelish'
Oh deep is the snow, that covers GlenCoe........ Yep, one of the worst war crimes ever. I swear that you can still feel the atmosphere there. Eerie spot.
jesus! I'm surrounded by a bunch of expat Jocks! Am I the only true Englishman (of mixed anglo/Irish/viking/french/jewish stock) who supports west ham?
By Jocks, I assume that you mean Scots. Well We are not Scots: they come from Ireland. My Mum always said that they were the snakes that St. Patrick drove out. (She wasn't really into factual explainations.) Anyway, Hebredians are Picts mate. You being an historian, of some note, are well aware of that. I like to say that I am a pure bred mix. and that's what makes me an Englishman. Lol.
Actually, by Jocks i think I mean everybody north of my inlaws. So you're one of those who Tacitus describes as, when faced with shepherd caring for his sheep, would drive off the sheep and eat the shepherd? A fine and proud heritage indeed!