Al-Jazeera a Zionist Plot!

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Anthony, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    And there it is....
     
  2. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You still have all your ribbons for "Participation," don't you?
     
  3. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    No personal attacks please if you want to continue to have access to this forum.
     
  4. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    You were talking about both dynasties. This is what you said:
    And you were wrong! As simple as that. Sassanids not only defeated Romans in Roman territory, they also killed the Roman emperor. End of story.
     
  5. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Unreal. You really can't read. Stunning.
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    You know what's funny? Here's the link from wikipedia. Emphasis mine:

    Tell me, Mani. If the battle of Edessa was in 260 A.D., and Wikipedia's (incorrect) informaiton says it was no longer a part of Roman territory by 214, how is your point valid?
     
  7. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    Okay. Mr. Stinkypants. ;)
     
  8. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    This is how my point was/is valid and yours was/is not:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapur_I_of_Persia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Valerian_I
    I rest my case.
     
  9. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Oh, almost forgot. Edessa isn't even in modern Armenia. Its Urfa, a city in Turkey. Mani's on a roll today.
     
  10. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Well, Mani, seems we've got a conflict in Wikipedia. Because Wikipedia already says that Edessa wasn't a Roman province after 214. So why should I trust your Wikipedia entry? Mine says you're wrong! Its also slightly curious as to how Shapur could control Antioch, according to that wikipedia entry, when Antioch is West of Edessa, but Valerian would still control Edessa. Weird! (Of course, we should note that Wikipedia is an amateur site, which explains these contradictions.)

    However, I'll even help you out:

    "A History of Rome", by M. Cary and H.H. Scullard. Third edition, St. Martins Press. Copyright 1975. Pgs. 510-511.

    Most of my library is, unfortunately in boxes in Ohio, but some remains. Enough to disprove your point, as easy as it is.

    P.S. I'm not even going to get into the obviously gaping question of "Roman controlled" being different from Roman territory. Technically, a Roman force would control every place they are. So if the Romans advanced to Carrhae, as they did under Crassus, but were defeated there, they would be defeated in "Roman controlled territory".
    P.P.S. Assuming, arguendo, you are correct, (which you are not), please note I said a defeat in Roman territory. As it is simple historical fact that Adrianople was the first Roman defeat on Roman land, clearly Edessa was not.
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    bigredfutbal,

    You made an assertion a while back, which you repeated in one your messages, regarding Iran's influence in the region. Although some of my messages have alluded to the issue, let me be clearer so you can be freed from some obvious misconceptions.

    No. Iranian influence is not left or felt only in "Central Asia". Pretty much the entire Islamic civilization is inextricably influenced by Iranian cultural influences. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, outside the bedouin tribes of Arabia and elsewhere, all that is recognized (good and some that is bad) about the urban culture of Islamic societies is the product of "Iranian Islam" or "Irano-Islamic civilization." That includes much of the Arab Middle East (minus the Arabia and bedouin tribes elswhere), as well as Turkish (Ottoman and Seljuk) cultures as well as the culture of the Mughal dynasty of India.

    The culture evoked by the stories of of Shahrezad and the Arabian nights, magic carpets, the images of the bazzars, the harams, the palaces of the Arab caliphs, the Ottomon sultans and the mughal emperors of India (Taj Mahal), the administration of these realms, some of the greatest scholarship of the golden age of Islam -- all of it is the product of Irano-Islamic civilization. In contrast to that civilization and its enormous influence, you have the "puritanical" Islam of Arabia represented in modern times by the demands of the Wahabi movement among some sunnis.

    Politically, of course, Iranian influences (or attempts at it) are today challenged by a host of competitors: Arab nationalism (which imitate secular western nationalist movements), Wahabi and sunni sectarian divisions, as well as by the power and attaction of the "West". In political terms, Iran's sphere is more limited to Shia areas (as well as those that are specifically Persian or Iranian even if not necessarily shia). But those political constraints say nothing about the cultural reach of Iran in the region and beyond.
     
  12. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Okay - now that I've read the thread, those of you engaging in personal attacks have now received cards, with the exception of bigredfutbol because my pants indeed do stink. Check your rep if you want to know how long it will last. If I missed you on the card and you feel left out, let me know.

    I'm going to leave this thread open for now, but please keep it civil from this point forward. Some of the comments in this thread were close to straight red territory - this ain't Rivalries folks.
     
  13. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
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    Although if you're going to see people get all connipted like that it's kind of cool to have it happen over the finer points of ancient history rather than, say, whether the obscene gay-smack really did bitch-slap the profane ethnic slur or, no dude, it was the other way 'round.
     
  14. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Don't insult my standard repertoire, please.
     
  15. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hate when I get in too late on one of the Jew threads.
     
  16. nekounam

    nekounam New Member

    Sep 14, 2004
    on your mom
    Probably for the same reason that you extract your entire understanding of history from the works of Greek propagandists. "Historians" who reconstructed details of battles decades after hostilities had ended, from the second-hand perspective of people who had no real understanding of what constitutes a technically feasible account of events.

    They may have not been the dominant power in the world, but they were a[/iI] dominant power for many vast spans of history well after said historical period. If your skewed approach to history cannot objectively account for this, then it's a sad state of affairs for all self-proclaimed online forum historians. I listed a few Persian dyansties (partitioned over a span of over 2000 years), and all of those aforementioned dynasties constitute a level of formidable "power" on the world stage.

    They may have not been the dominant power in the world, but they were a[/iI] dominant power for many vast spans of history well after said historical period.


    This comment in and of itself precludes you from commenting on Persian history. Here's a quick link list (google generated) of a few revolutionary Persian scientists in the past 1500 years:

    Avicenna
    Farabi
    Khwarizmi
    Khayyam
    The Persian Calendar
    Rhazes
    Ulugh Beg
    Hessabi
    Biruni
    Tusi

    I'm willing to bet that you've never read a history book translated by a Persian scholar or historian from its original Farsi. As much as you'd like to believe that your understanding of history is complete, you are severely limited and handicapped by the focused and biased approach taken by the authors who write the texts that provided for your history "education".
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    :confused: Greek propagandists? What? Erich Gruen, Beloch, Brunt and Syme were Greek propagandists? I'll mention that to Gruen next time I see him. He does love humor.

    What is this in relation to? The location of Edessa? Are you feeling well?



    There is only one dominant power at one time in one region. Persia was that ONCE. It was never so again. One time in its history was Persia stronger than any of its enemies. Once.



    :rolleyes: See above.

    Sigh. You are yet the next person to mistake my dislike for Mani for a dislike for Persians.
    Btw, since when is "Persian Calendar" a scientist?

    And what's Ulugh Beg doing on that list? He's as Persian as I am.

    Where have I said that?

    Do you actually know what my historical education encompasses?
    I don't lecture you on medicine; don't lecture me on history. Western history isn't designed to somehow degrade Persians. In fact, I could spend several pages writing about all the remarkable things that Achaemenid Persia achieved. I just see no point in doing it.

    I love, however, the assumption that my education is biased because Iranians haven't taught it to me. :rolleyes:
     
  18. nekounam

    nekounam New Member

    Sep 14, 2004
    on your mom
    I linked to one wikkipedia page that was branch-linked to a dozen others, and I provided a few of those links here. That explains the presense of "the Persian Calendar" (it was the work of one of those scientists, and I was just copying and pasting links from the page). I usually just submit a post, and edit it if necessary immediately afterward-but it was just now that I realized that I don't have that option with a yellow card. In no way is that list remotely close to complete, but the jist of it is enough to prove my point.

    By the way, the the Persian calendar is the most accurate calendar in use on this planet:
     
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Iranian Monitor,

    I'm guessing that very little, if any, Iranian influence extends to Bangladesh or Indonesia. Or sub-Saharan Islamic Africa.

    Certainly Persian influence was strong--it was already an established civilization when Islam came to Persia, and it was, at one time, a dominant power. I don't think I'm disputing that.

    I'll echo nico here--don't mistake a disagreement with Mani for a disparagement of Iranians or Iranian culture. But thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful response.
     
  20. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    New Light on the Coming of Islam to Indonesia, W J Drewes
     
  21. chocolate

    chocolate New Member

    Oct 25, 2003
    milwaukee, WI
    Did they invent post and couriers?
    Did they establish the first banks in the world?
    Did they make the first pants and long coats?
    Did they invent the wheel?
    Did they build some of the first roads?
    Did they make world's first orchestra?
    Did they invent pottery and ceramics?
    Were they masters of architecture?
    Did they make the first forks, spoons and knives?
    Did they make the first perfumes?
    i suggest you all go and research this topic like i just did.
     
  22. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    At iranonline.com :)
     
  23. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    But if you're actually planning on debating, use wikipedia - the choice of Mani, and all ignorant Persians without knowledge of their history everywhere.
     
  25. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    You claiming credit for the Incas is a bit like me claiming credit for the Roman Empire.
     

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