Just to add to this both have extra intrigue around them. Saints had all sorts of stuff they were doing (seriously did they think of this from the Canadian teams that also got caught?) while the ship had the three rich guys that were against the Federal Reserve being created while the owner of the Titanic was also a rich guy who was for the Fed but didn't take the voyage at the last minute. So out of the six rich guys that were to vote all the no's were killed on the Titanic. Maybe that caused a curse for the Saints?
Apart from expulsion from the playoffs, the points deduction is seriously inadequate: it does make winning promotion next season harder but it doesn't give them the proverbial mountain to climb, which 10-12 points would have. By cheating their way into the playoffs - does anyone doubt the 3 cases they've admitted to are the only ones - the denied at least Wrexham a place and Derby could make a case for their promotion push being negatively affected as well. Then there's question of how the relegation sides were affected. At the very least they should have been fined any and all TV money received this season, with that money redistributed to the teams that don't get promoted, and told they'll be starting next season on -10/12 points. They should withdraw and doubly so now that they've admitted it wasn't a one-off but to having done it on another two specific occasions, but are they going to withdraw? Hell no! they're planning to appeal the rather mild punishments (expulsion from the playoffs and 4 points deducted from next season) they've been given. IMO the appeal tribunal should fine them 10 million and deduct 12 points with another 10 suspended.
https://www.southamptonfc.com/en/news/article/club-statement-20th-may-2026 There is something really really funny about using the Leeds 2019 punishment as an exculpatory example... mainly because the punishments they're appealing TODAY were put into place because the EFL didn't have mechanisms to do more to punish Leeds in 2019! "Yes, we all agree Leeds wasn't punished enough... but don't you think this is going a bit too far??"
Southampton should be forced into administration and its assets sold off at public auction to the highest bidders. The punishment they are receiving is severe and more than most anyone actually expected.
Wrexham midfielder Josh Windass says that the Championship playoffs should be played all over again, but this time with Wrexham taking Southampton's place. Meanwhile, Hull owner says the final should instead be cancelled altogether and Hull simply directly promoted to the EPL. Lots of funny things with this mess.
All games where Southampton are proven to have spied should be converted to 3-0 losses and the table recalculated accordingly. Yes, this would create a huge mess and the governing body wouldn't be able to deal with the repercussions.
Yes, that would be a mess As it stands, there's likely to be a whole lot of lawsuits, most directed at Southampton. The Saints will be lucky to be playing pub ball after all is said and done.
I'm rooting for Morris to get another shot at promotion, but as a (mostly) neutral party, this saga has been WILDLY entertaining lol
🚨 BREAKING: Southampton lose appeal in attempt to overturn expulsion from Championship play-off final for spying on opponents. #SaintsFC spot goes to Middlesbrough; #MFC to face Hull City at Wembley on Saturday. By @Dan_Sheldon_ @mjshrimper @TheAthleticFC https://t.co/iEkGDXbK7U— David Ornstein (@David_Ornstein) May 20, 2026 Source is NYT / The Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/72...ship-playoff-final/?source=emp_shared_article
... and, like, I'm agnostic about how much impact "spying" can have on match outcomes, but I think this is the correct decision. The whole deal with the 18/19 Leeds United 'spygate' was that Bielsa took advantage of a lack of clear regulations about "spying", the other EFL clubs agreed it was very unsporting and unfair, and the EFL passed Regulation 127 in the 19/20 edition of the EFL Regulations: Either Southampton were ignorant of the rules and deserve whatever punishment the EFL hands down, or Southampton understood the rules, didn't believe the punishments would be severe enough to hurt their promotion campaign, and should be punished more than what the EFL hands down to deter other clubs from engaging in spying when chasing promotion. I genuinely feel bad for Southampton fans and their players, but they should be mad at their club / manager, not the EFL.
In this day and age, I honestly can’t understand how Southampton—or anyone—could be foolish enough to think they’d get away with something like this. Maybe it isn’t stupidity at all; maybe it’s arrogance at the highest level.
Can be both. Tons of people in the football industry have been told they’re god’s gift to the world since they were 8, and stopped getting real school not long after that.
While I do love the allegory, it's a wonder they could build the Titanic so cheaply! Obviously it doesn't have any of the modern amenities of today, but it did have all the modern amenities and finest craftsmanship and materials of its day... The equivalent today is well over $1 billion and a measley $200 billion doesn't come close to getting you a cruise ship, but rather a very nice yacht
The $7.5 million cost is well known (Here is an article from History.com talking about the cost). Then you can use just one of the many inflation calculators to find out what the cost of something in any year is today. The American Institute for Economic Research has a good one. The Titanic was made in Belfast from 1909-2012. Labor was much cheaper then, even for the carpentry that produced the elegant craftmanship that was on the Titanic.
Measuring inflation historically gets really wonky really quick. I read a book on the history of the East India Company recently and wanted to try to understand what the figures used in the book from 1600-1850 would be in modern terms and it just doesn’t work very well. 1909-1912 is closer in time of course but its still kind of a fraught pursuit.
Southampton's FO may not have been aware of it or only became aware of it until too late. It seems that Eckart's defence at the hearing is that this stuff is normal/no big deal on the continent and he didn't know there was such a strong punishment available. Not sure I buy that, but it's not too hard to see Eckart and his analysis team doing this on their own initiative without telling anyone. And it's hard to see how this could exonerate the FO. When Eckert’s predecessor, Will Still, arrived from the continent in the summer the club gave him a detailed briefing to explain the competition’s rules. They did not do the same for Eckert after he replaced Still in early November. Negligence IOW
Southampton, amazingly, still seem to think that they've been harshly treated but their troubles are just beginning: Millwall and Wrexham are consulting their lawyers with a view to taking legal action against Southampton and the league for loss of income. Meanwhile, their players are incandescent and have reportedly been contacting the PFA: more than a few of them joined or were persuaded to stay with Southampton instead of joining other clubs because they were persuaded they'd have a better shot promotion. I doubt that a players' legal challenge would succeed but you can be sure that their agents will be working the phones like crazy over the summer: a player exodus may well be on the cards. They are certainly going to find it harder to persuade targets to join them.
I mean they *did* have a better shot at promotion, they were on the cusp and then got shot down. I can see how they'd be super upset though; it's likely they had no idea, and that their video and tactics sessions were just "very detailed"...
I mean, when your spy dude gets caught RUNNING AWAY from the practice field, it seems like they must have known.
Southampton, looking at past punishments handed out to clubs for this sort of thing, might've imagined the EFL would never bring the hammer down the way they did. But there's always a first time for everything, and so they are the first. Unlikely now that other English teams will engage in these kind of spying hi-jinks, at least for the near future. I feel bad for the Southampton fans, but not for all of them -- a few on their fan forums were complaining that the club's upper management were "stupid" for fessing up to the crimes. Apparently, the club was supposed to keep its mouth shut.
This is literally the legal defense Southampton used at the appeals hearing: that "EFL v Leeds United FC (2019)" should be the precedent considered when doling out new punishments. This is a terrible argument, as that case was considered before the regulation Southampton is guilty of violating existed. To quote from the EFL's rebuttal, "... a sanction imposed in a pre-regulation 127 case does not necessarily represent the appropriate benchmark following the introduction of a specific regulatory prohibition." Unsaid in that part of the EFL's response is, "regulation 127 was literally created in the wake of that case, so that we could issue more severe punishments for future violations, you morons". They say something to that effect later on in the 'determination' section, minus the "you morons" part. Fans and players get sympathy. But the club's sporting admins appear to be cheaters.