Who's "the other guy"? I don't think that any German fan is disappointed with reaching the 2nd spot of such a tough competition! The disappointment refers to the poor performance in 4 out of 6 games resp. to the surpising setback regarding the playing style. Everybody in Germany knows that this team is able to play better soccer.
Actually I don't want to discuss such things in this thread (I prefer the Germany section), but let me just give you a brief answer to a few statements: So Romania wasn't a tough opponent? At the time we defeated them 3:1 with a "B" team, they had a run of many unbeaten games... First of all we unluckily lost to Denmark 0:1 with a "C" team, what's surely no shame. And what means "they barely beat England and Serbia"? So winning at Wembley with a "B" team, is the most normal thing in the world for you? And the win over Serbia was the last test before the EC 2008, when many players were exhausted from the tough training. Luck or not luck, fact is that Germany managed to beat the hosts from South Korea ... whereas teams like Italy & Spain lost against them. If I remember right, you were the first one to applaud Löw for not nominating Marin...
While I agree w/ the spirit of your post, as a Spaniard, I must object to the SK-Spain analysis. That game has thee biggest asterisk in WC history over the last quarter century.
As an Italian, I would have to agree. IMO 2002 could have been Spain's year... or Italy's, although that's less clear.
Italy and Spain both lost because of dubious refereeing decisions. It was like the freakin' WWE. I didn't "applaud" Low. I said Marin wasn't ready and I still stand by that. But if he wasn't going to play the guy who was in his midfield spot, then he should have just taken Marin. That is what the f#ck I said. I also called him a "coward" for not having the balls to take Jones and Helmes.
Apparently the refs had brand new Hyundais a week after the end of the WC. Spain had a goal disallowed, two or three corners and two or three penalties not given (Joaquin's was disgraceful)
I'll never forget how they ruled that the ball had gone out of bounds when Joaquin made the cross to Morientes that resulted in a goal. I doubt I'll forget the faces of the Spaniards either after the penalty kicks... Italy just looked stunned, but Spain was distraught. What a sham.
I think they ruled it was offside or out, I can't remember now, I have blocked the memories. I was broken hearted. There is an argument that FIFA and UEFA shouldn't let 'minor' footballing Nations to host Cups, one argument being that the refeering standards are too low and the other being they can't meet deadlines to build stadiums (South Africa, and Poland and Ukraine). I don't know if this is true but I wish they used video refereeing like in Rugby and Cricket and even Tennis you get challenges. The refereeing standards in Europe are still higher though, and despite Lehman's claims the Italian ref in the final seemed OK to me. I thought he would give Spain a tough time. Podolski's encounter with Silva was totally deserved and he should have got a booking for bad sportsmanship.
Nope, I'm pretty sure they ruled the ball had rolled out of play but Joaquin made the chip to Morientes right when the ball was on the boundary and still in play. As far as the Podolski - Silva incident, I think Podolski was certainly inviting violent conduct, but that doesn't really excuse Silva taking the bait. I'm fairly sure that Rosetti saw the incident and decided not to hand Silva the red card because he saw Podolski's culpability in the matter whereas IMO other refs would have sent Silva off. Ultimately though, it ended up being for the good of the game and might be considered a good no-call (unless you're a German fan, of course).
Then we Germans can be very happy that the semi-final referee withstood the attempt of bribery... To me as well. At least he was not decisive for our defeat... Well, he could have sent off Silva for his assault ... but that would have been to harsh in my eyes. Capdevilla's handball in the 1st half was unintentional (also mentioned by the German tv commentator) ... so the decision not to give a pk for Germany, was ok. I think that Lehmann was the only one to moan after the game, but everyone knows that it's just his nature. So I don't take it seriously... Podolski should have got a booking for bad sportmanship? C'mon... Be happy that he reacted fairly and didn't go to ground (as many other players would do)!
My personal take on the whole Podolski/Silva incident is this. Podolski was wrong in becoming aggressive, Silva was even dumber to react and risk being sent off in the final. In hindsight however Germany underperformed and they never really looked like they were going to win the match. If the game was closer this might raise a bigger discussion but as it stands I could really care less.
Btw: Can anybody tell me what happened to this Spain team since the defeats in Northern Ireland & Sweden? Everybody knows that they have always been playing a technically great soccer in the midfield (they adopted the Barca style perfectly under Aragones) ... but their new efficiency & coolness in attack and the new strength & discipline in defending was a little bit surprising and impressive! They finally managed to combine their good technical skills with mental & physical strength and tactical discipline. And they finally learned to combine their nice-looking short passing style with efficiency... I can't remember when a team dominated a tournament in such an impressive manner the last time! Kudos to Aragones & his guys! Great team and worthy champs!
They were never going to allow them to win it. However, what do you think would have happened to the atmosphere there had South Korea been eliminated after the group phase??? One of the major stories of that tournament was the South Korean fans. And that's something I said the night of the match......
Can you explain this statement closer to me? And what about the Japanese fans? Why didn't the Japanese manage to bribe the referee...? But let's stop this "off topic" discussion now (it has nothing to do with this thread)!
Simple. FIFA wanted South Korea to go far, but not far enough to where people would definitely point and say "the fix is in." They wanted to keep the South Korean story and both Italy and Spain got f#cked for it. I didn't say anything about South Korea bribing the referee. If you don't know what I'm saying just ask. Don't put f#cking words in my mouth because you don't know what's being said. I'm suggesting FIFA fixed the shit. And I feel they didn't do it for the Japanese because they didn't need the Japanese to do well to keep the sport growing there. That and the Japanese fans weren't the story that the Korean fans were. I would think nothing of this if there were just a few badly officiated matches. But when there are at least four of them benefiting the same team?? Yes, the f#cking fix was in. Helping them to beat Germany would have been a little too much. But they already had what they wanted. Right. Then you won't respond to this then will you?
LOL, you are normally quite sensible, but wtf! Just remember to keep the tin foil hat on will ya. Seriously - do you really think a big and diverse organisation like FIFA could agree on or organise such a plot? That's like saying the UN fixed the Florida elections. Well, come to think of it...
I think a more likely scenario is that in the haste to have a Kumbayah World Cup, they allowed some refs from lesser countries to continue to ref in the knock-out rounds, and these refs were in over their heads, and Spain and Italy got screwed.
This is the more likely explanation. With the exception of Moreno (his misconduct as a referee has been fully exposed), I would say that the referees and linesmen were incompetent rather than malicious or obviously biased. FIFA quality? Nope, but they were born in the right places.
That's all I was commenting on. It wasn't clear if he meant after the tournament started or from before the tournament. If he meant from before the tournament that means he hasn't seen that this team did (regardless of being at home or against who) play much better quality football in the couple of years before. Yeah I am not saying it isn't any less praiseworthy. I wanted them to play better as far back as the austria and switzerland friendlies. England was with a very weakened team though and Denmark was after all the starters were rested after winning in Prague. Just saying. I do agree with this. After changing "needs" to "should", I agree with all of this too.
I was supporting Spain in this match and the ball was CLEARLY inside the field of play when Joaquin crossed it. There were about 4 other obvious calls against Spain that would have resulted in goals. It was disgraceful. Even more than the Italy match.
Great job, Spain!! Living here in the US my sport fanatic friends that are die hards over the World Series or the Super Bowl or what have you, all asked me on Monday if I was allright after receiving their "condolences". Actually, it was easy for me, or "easier" than I thought. Though I wanted Germany to win more than anything I am satisfied knowing that the best team of the tourney did eventualy win it over us. Going into the final, I was prepared for the game to go either way somehow knowing that it would take a lot from Germany to win - but definetly possibe, nonetheless. In the end, Germany could not score once after scoring 6 in the last 2 matches...and though they recieved 2 goals per game as well - Spain managed with only one. But it's not only about the single goal. Spain closed tactically shut down a German side with out a compass. Worthy champs, the Spaniards, worthy champs!!! LOL at the (R) in the thread title!
Okay, just to get it right...Germany was lucky in 2002, because FIFA wanted SK to go far in this tournament but not too far, Germany was lucky in 2006, because they were "riding the wave" and luckily played extremely well and Germany was lucky in 2008 because they played poor football, but somehow (no one knows how) managed to make it to the final and lost it with 1-0 (luckily it wasn´t a 4-0, because Spain was way better than Germany)...ah, I forgot, Germany was lucky in 1996, too because of the Golden-Goal-rule! Hey, everything the German National Team is about is luck...no skills, no spirit, no fight, no will, nothing! And we´re lucky again...our qualification group for the 2010 WC is not a tough one, too! So, all I have left to say is, GOOD LUCK GERMANY FOR THE 2010 WC, so that everybody can continue complaining about how lucky Germany was instead of every other National Team in the world...