95% of you guys are great guys who mean well but unfortunately you have 5% who are DB and have no respect for the people who paved the way for you to have a standing section to stand and cheer. All of this would not happen if some of your members had some nuts and could deal with the issues they might have with other members of the section. Grow up instead of throwing your AO dog tags at people. Last time I checked we are all Wizards fans who are all suppose to be on the same page. To bad you all act like 12 yr olds instead of soccer fans. I could say more but I will be good for now.
Re: Ao/kco! Spoon, quit trying to call out a whole group when one or two drunk people cause a problem. It only creates bigger problems. If the whole Cauldron had to answer every time we did something stupid back in the day, the group wouldn't exist anymore. The Cauldron needs a capo, and to have this thread moved to the supporters club forum.
Re: Ao/kco! Thanks Jeff I just cant imagine this is the first thing to come up about lastnight. I saw much more that should be on here before this. Spoon id be more then happy to talk to you more about this. However I do not feel bigsoccer is the place. If you would send me a pm with your email that would be fantastic.
Re: Ao/kco! Jeff Reread the post. I am not calling out the whole group there was alot of things I saw and heard last night from their members that was appalling and what happened after the match was a joke. But thanks for saying that I am trying to cause problems. Thanks Andy as always you are no help.
Re: Ao/kco! Spoon, why do you have to do this every time? What are you solving with this post other than offending the 95% of the good guys who are in AO (including myself)? Don't you think that maybe they don't like the guys who cause problems too? I was 1) not surprised at this thread because it's becoming predictable that you will do this and 2) offended at the title. And don't hide behind the statement (95% good, 5% bad), you titled the thread to call negative attention to AO. Late last year and now again you are right in the middle this stuff. It's not me, it's not Jeff, Matt, Justice, Robert, John, etc. There are hundreds of people in the section and yet you are the one common denominator. Is it too much to ask that you step away and try to cool the situtations down instead of trying to escillate them? I know you'll get all mad at me, but I'm not the only person who feels this way. You also were the person who ran straight to the boards after the game last year. It takes two to tango, and you're just as involved in these situations as the other guys, but part of the problem is that you simply don't see it that way. If someone does something stupid/wrong and they are drunk about the dumbest thing you can do is approach them aggressively. And you do that every time. Do you really expect a drunk 22 year old to say "Oh, I'm sorry older guy who is getting in my face and yelling at me"? They may be the root of the issue, but look around yourself too. There were multiple people trying to help solve the issue and you just wanted to keep going Walk away from it so we can all avoid this drama because it is getting old. I agree with Jeff that these are individuals acting on their own. Just a few years ago we were all telling people to stop saying that the "Cauldron" was causing problems because the section can't control each individual. Those individuals don't represent the section as a whole. Now because it's a person with an AO shirt on you title the thread "AO"? Seems a bit contradictory if you ask me.
Re: Ao/kco! On the other hand, since all of us in the Cauldron have to experience - directly or indirectly - the problems caused by a few, Bigsoccer should be the place for the discussion. As far as last night goes, I didn't see the pre-game "drama" that someone mentioned in the post-game thread and I didn't see the post-game antics that Spoon refers to in his post, so I guess I was lucky in that regard. However, as others have noted and I would agree with there was a definite negative - almost ugly - vibe throughout the game. I could see why - as Jeff notes in another thread - folks would not want to come back the section.
Re: Ao/kco! Now to those people who are causing problems. Eric (I think) - why the scuffle with the Toronto fans? We were all hanging out, having a great time with their fans. Then we have to have a chest thumping party? Do you really think that is why they drove over 1000 miles? To have a pissing contest with you? Cut that crap out or it isn't going to be the opposing fans who have a problem with you. The reality is that if you and your small group of friends get in a fight with 100 away fans there isn't going to be a big rush to save your ass. Thrown dog tags - anyone want to step up and take responsibilty? Most likely the person doesn't even read BigSoccer, but if they do or someone knows who did it please tell them to NOT do that. And finally, everyone chill the F out! We're at these games to have fun, support our team and make friends along the way. If you aren't there for the same reasons go stand somewhere else, tailgate somewhere else and don't ruin our game days with your childish crap.
Re: Ao/kco! The negative vibe was due to the result more than anything. Everyone was pumped and having a great time pre-game (minus the crap with the Toronto fans). But when you're down 3-1 our section tends to get, shall I say, "frustrated". It sucks, but it happens.
After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. I'd like for as many people to post in here (not just Spoon, Mike and Jeff) about what we need to do. Our section was lost for the first game, and we need to get it back. In various threads I have read about the negativity, the focus on away fans, the fighting within our own supporters, disorganization and people not returning. This is not what our section is about and I for one intend on taking it back. First of all we have to have some serious (sober) discussions with a few people. Some of the more level headed members of HS and AO need to approach these people and talk with them. One other course of action we need to consider, later on if this stuff continues, is involving the team. I'd never want it to come to that, but one thing that the Chiefs use is an anonomous system of reporting fans. I've seen it lead to a couple of season tickets being revoked and that is not out of the question in my mind for people who start fights and throw objects. The chanting must come from within. I'll admit that at the first game everyone drank a lot more than normal and we were not in form to chant. The only people who are going to stop the negative chants are us. If 250 people sing a song, it will drown out the 15 doing a negative chant. We need to be more active in insisting that the drums get to the middle of the section, are all together and we lead them. And someone must be raised above the section. If the masses have someone to look to, they'll follow. Otherwise they follow what they can hear, which is what is closest to them. And for anyone reading this that has been part of these problems: change or move. We want diversity, but not negativity. You are in the minority and I am asking for the good of the group. Some people grow up and learn to play nice with others. Some people need to realize why our section exists. So I ask the other members, what do we do? Who has some ideas?
Re: Ao/kco! OH I am sorry mister innocent! I do believe that there was a game that you (Ben) was escorted out of the stands by the police for your mouth. So before you, Jeff, and everyone else wants to comment on a situation that you have know ideal about. Why don't you find out the facts first. You two are always so quick to judge and speak your mind about things that you have no ideal about. This is what happened. After walking around the CAB we came back to our seats to a younger couple fighting behind us. Matt told seurity to take care of the situation before it got out of control. No Ben he did not get into anyone face as you posted. (again not there to know what had happened, but always adds two cents) Matt did not get upset until some a-hole threw dog tags at us. If security would had taken care of the situation when Matt told him to it would not have gotten that far. That is the main point of what had happened! Lisa
Re: After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. I'm glad this was posted. This was my first game as a Cauldron season ticket holder after several years in 118 at Arrowhead and last year at the bleachers. I couldn't have felt more disconnected from the heart of the Cauldron, in row 12 of all places. Random folks in adjacent sections and a few people in the back had more to do with starting chants than the core group up front. I know this has been said many times but it becomes increasingly clear if you spend any time in the back part of the section: the organized leadership among you need to surround the unwashed masses with the "cathedral" concept. There were many willing participants at the back but they had no compelling reason to get involved and it doesn't feel like you are connected back there. Surround the section with the leaders and fill it in with people that will be so immersed in it, they won't have any choice but to participate -- or it'll make it unpleasant for those who just want to stand around and cause trouble. I think this would cut down on the lawlessness in the middle when the leaders are all around. I yelled until my voice was hoarse, sometimes just starting up my own chants because stuff from the front doesn't travel back, and I felt like I was all alone. If I had any shame at all, I probably would have stopped but instead I tried to encourage those around me to join in. I'm happy to stay back there and help project into the section but I can't do it alone.
Re: Ao/kco! I know full well what I have done in the past. I'm the first person to point out that I have done those things. I do it very consistently on these boards when I talk about stuff like this. Maybe you just haven't seen those posts, which is cool. Just know that I am very humble about this stuff for the very fact that I have gone through it. Obviously I don't know the details. What I do know is that drama continues to come up at every game. And I don't think that it can be denied that you and Spoon have been involved in these issues more than the regular Cauldronites. I'm not implying that you're the cause, but you are involved more than the average people. That's the birds eye view, no details just the overall fact. Whatever the reasons or cause, the drama continues. And it causes friends to fight, people to not enjoys themselves and potentially drives people away from the section. I would agree that security should have stepped in, hearing what you just described, but I would then say why isn't this thread titled "CAB Security". My issue is mostly about the title of the thread. Individuals did this, not American Outlaws. If I am wearing a shirt with my company's logo on it and I get arrested for drunk driving should people think that my company condones drunk driving? No, and similarly just because someone is wearing an AO shirt doesn't mean that AO condones throwing NIKE dog tags. Most importantly, and it sucks that I have to mention this every single time, realize that I'm on your side of the issue. The person who threw dog tags is an idiot, theres no other way to describe it. I only disagree with the approach used in an attempt to "solve" the issue once security apparently decided not to help you out.
Re: After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. My two cents... Everyone drank all day, therefore no one was in shape for the game. With all the splinter groups this year, I think everyone wanted to do their own thing. I think in the next few games, maybe everyone will get it together or maybe not. Maybe the smaller groups will fade away or join the bigger ones. I know this wasn't the Cauldron we had at the end of last year. I was sitting in the front row and there was a couple boys behind me, I know that atmospehere couldn't of been fun for them, because it wasn't fun for me. But of course, all of this could be of the result on the field.
Re: Ao/kco! Also I would like to add that we gave those dog tags out like water. If you didnt get one im surprised. Ben thanks for helping me out lastnight. I went into the argument to get my buddy out of there who I wanna add did nothing. Once I walked in I automatically start getting yelled at by Spoon I hate to throw names out thats why i dont wanna do it on here but him and his for just for trying to defuse the situation. However I get singled out by that group of individuals for throwing stuff and get pulled aside by CAB security. As for Eric right after he got in that scuffle he put on a bandanna. We wanna make it clear we dont condone hooliganism of any kind. I talked with Robert right after and I know the HCS feels is the same way. Spoon dont think we dont respect what you and the elder gents have done for the Cauldron. I know all about how you guys had to fight to keep the section. However you have to realize younger kids are whats going to help progress the section. There will be idiots. However the way you handles the situation was not the way it should be done. I had friends who i took and they had never been to a Wizards game they absolutely loved it. Right after wards they asked if it was always that drama filled. If there is a problem with anything the AO is doing please talk to Chris or my self cause we are not there to start problems. We are there to have fun and cheer on our boys.
Re: Ao/kco! When you advertise the atmosphere and trappings of hooligan groups, it's a little disingenuous to cry about it afterwards when it turns out that you actually attract members with hoolie or hoolie-wannabe leanings. Bandana covered face? "Outlaws" in the name? Hello?
Re: Ao/kco! So what about his group he started the Kansas City Chaos. Im just saying that we dont condone it and its that same reason why we dropped our bandannas so that this way and Joe wont wear a bandanna and make it look like they are apart of us. I was just clearing up that we dont wanna see that crap and hope that people know that when people act like that we will have nothing to do with them.
Re: Ao/kco! I know the dog tags were handed out to everyone and that is fine and great. Still doesn't explain why a guy in a AO shirt was fighting with a girl right behind us. Last time I checked you had to be a member to get one of those but I am "too old" to get one of those or to be a part of your group. Which is was complaint that I heard from 3 or 4 individuals last night. There will always be idiots that is for sure but in the end leadership has to step up and show some responsibility for there groups actions. Lastly I was mad and have every right to be. I was completely fine until shit gets thrown at me. I am sure you would to.
Re: Ao/kco! We never turned down anyone for a shirt. I did step up Spoon i walked in there and pull the kid out you were arguing with. Then you start pointing fingers at me. I just thought it was dumb. Spoon you were younger you know the things you did in that past as Wizards game as Ben says he mad did stupid things aswell. If you could have been calm when i walked in instead of pointing fingers as me as throwing them. You could have pointed the person out and I could have talked to that one individual. The kids you were arguing with when I walked in didnt do anything besides when being yelled at he prob got lippy. I stood next to him all game so if we would have thrown something I could have taken care of it. All and all its all done. What happened, happened. I would be best to squash it and come back next game with happy thought for our boy. This season should be good. If you see any of the AO guys throwing things as I said let Chris or I know. We will take care of it. As I will do with Robert. When we have to deal with something like this I just feel it would be easier to keep a cool head and talk like men. Not yelling thats the only thing I was upset about. Was the way it was handled.
Re: After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. I agree with the 'drums in the middle of the section' would help out quite a bit, but that grows very difficult when the supporter group with the most drums comes into every game at least 10 minutes after first kick..
Re: After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. Ben I was five rows behind you and i still couldnt hear a word. I could tell from the tunes and got them started up there as well as having to start our own chants. I fully agree we need leader to start chants spread out. I saw Jeff off on the left like always. But I dont consider my self as a leader but I am more then willing sitting up where i was to help get things going. Also that one group of front with the f*** Toronto chant all that crap needs to go away. Those group of 15 or so seemed to me to be running the chants. With chants like that... it cant happen we need to flood those group out with our known chants. We were lost lastnight but I wasnt my self. Throat was killing me had woken up drunk and starting drinking at 12. Ben lets set something up to get together somewhere and get everything level.
Re: Ao/kco! I was right there in the middle of all of this (behind Spoon) and the AO guy that showed up halfway through the second half tried at every chance to incite people around him to fight. He had the crazy eyes. But don't blame an entire supporter's group for one a-hole. I would just chalk it all up too much alcohol and tension.
Re: After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. Is it possible to bring back the mega phone we used at the home playoff game last year? I though that worked out pretty good. Also we should look into getting a stand or something similar that someone can stand on and lead chants.
Re: After game #1, what now? Taking the section back. WTf is ur problem? Flood us out? There were 6 ST's there and 9 others who will most likely go to 90 percent of the games? So of course instead of blaming urself or your group for not chanting loud enough, u get on us for actually getting chants started! What a baby..You guys want the Cauldron better? Then make it better! U think kicking out 18 diehards who will be bringing at least 20 a game, who chant the entire game out of the section is the way to make it better? U must be on the piss right now, or your an idiot..I have nothing against you as a person, or your group, but you've just called out me and my group for chanting,,WHEN U WOULDNT ********ING CHANT! We were involved in every other chant we were from other groups, but it was a gosh damn ghost town in the Cauldron, and if it wasn't for us 15 there were times when u could have heard a pin drop..I dont know what happened last night, but it was a very lazy, sobdued performance from alot of people who normally bring alot more to the table..Turkas as usual was doing his best about 5 rows behind us, Szazzy was getting alot of things started, but even those chants would die out in a matter of seconds, and my group of 15 who need to get kicked out were some of the only people helping out with EVERY SINGLE CHANT..and it wasn't just the We ********ing Hate Toronto chant we started..."I love you Davy" was started by us, "Jimmy Conrad bringing the rukus" started by us,,and 3/4 of the classics that were heard last night were started, or helped on by us. If you didnt like the Chant, then u should have started a better one kiddo, so f* off for slagging us when you brought litterally, absolutely nothing to the table except a tippy cup game before the match...Maybe this is whats wrong with the Cauldron this year? The groups that actually chant are getting told they should leave, and the ones who sit on their hands and moan when a pass doesnt go well are passing out the criticizim...Actions speak louder for words, so outchant us or shut up.