News: AFC's 'Player Of The Year' Joke.

Discussion in 'Asian Football Confederation' started by cmedina1983, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Well if that's the case then Nakata should be a shoe in every year.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. RickChelsea

    RickChelsea Member

    Sep 28, 2008
    sidknee
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mozambique
    another candidate then:D
    [​IMG]
     
  3. HiJazzey

    HiJazzey Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Al Ittihad Jeddah
    I'm simply not interested enough in this award to go look for the scoring system or the actual points awarded for the candidates. You might be right that it's rigged, but I don't care either way. I don't take any of these beauty pageants seriously. Xxxx of the year/decade/century/evAr, it's all meaningless to me.

    What I don't agree with, is the line of argument that if a list isn't dominated by Koreans and Australians then it must be wrong. Your players aren't that hot.
     
  4. woorijim

    woorijim Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Bucheon, South Korea
    But, ironically, it's the Koreans and Australians that are doing well year after year in European leagues, featuring in Champions league, scoring goals in leagues and being regulars in their respective clubs.

    ---------------------------------
    For instance,

    Scott McDonald (AUS) of Celtic is scoring 20+ goals every season.

    Park Chu-Young (KOR) of AS Monaco is currently highest ranked forward in Ligue 1 with 6.67 average rating. He's the second-highest ranked overall, below Yoann Gourcuff (7.00)
    http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/FootballNotes1064.html

    Tim Cahill (AUS) of Everton is Everton's most valuable player.

    Lee Chung-Yong (KOR) of Bolton has adopted pretty well scoring 1 goal and 2 assists in 3 previous games. He's renowned for technical skills, astute passing and vision.

    Kim Dong-Jin (KOR) of Zenit St. Petersburg was once regarded as the 2nd highest-rated left fullback in Russian Premier League before his injury. He's now recovered from an injury and has played 10 league games this season. Btw, Zenit is the team that won the 2008 UEFA cup.

    -----------------------------------

    What I'm trying to say is, your argument is pretty meaningless since you're generalizing all the Australian & Korean players as being "workhorses and thugs".

    Every player has their own style. A player like Park Ji-Sung of Manchester Utd may not actually possess individual brilliance like you say and if your argument is only limited to Park JS, then I'd also agree with you. :) But, I dare ask you how many matches have you been watching when it comes to a player like Park Chu-Young or Harry Kewell?

    Your argument doesn't really convince me at all. I'm guessing you have got this impression after watching some matches that involve Korea NT or Australia NT? Playing for the NT and playing for the club is a totally different thing. They have different coaches, and different coaches expect a player to do a different task. Korea NT, as many of you know, is renowned for being coherent, making the most of work-rate, stamina & speed. This system limits a player to show their fancy skills and dribbling. Same goes for Australia NT. The reason why they've been so successful in their WC Qualifying campaign was because they were tactically brilliant as a team. Strong and physical in defense, strong aerial power in attack and so on.

    Japan play beautiful football with their passing and movement. It pleases my eyes every time I watch them play. But it's their style. Does this mean all the Japanese players are individually better than, say Australian players just because they play beautifully? You know what happened when Japan faced Australia twice in this WC qualifying campaign. Playing beautiful and being strong doesn't usually go together. (Spain is an exception in this category) Australian players used their power, physical ability to close down those Japanese players from passing inside the midfield. Japan, at often times, struggle a lot when they face a team that possesses strong physical ability & power. You never know which team is good unless they face against each other. We all thought Spain were going to crush everyone at the Confed Cup, but you all saw what happened to them.
     
  5. RickChelsea

    RickChelsea Member

    Sep 28, 2008
    sidknee
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mozambique
    Our players may never be "hot" in that sense, but if someone from the Maldives can get in on this award, then why Park, Kewell, Cahill, McDonald, PCY and so forth can't, leaves much to be said.

    Obviously the criteria clearly has shown that European based players will not be given a look in, but why is it like this in the first place? And even then, you can't bloody tell me that there is no player in the K-League worthy of being nominated at the very least for this award especially those who competed in the AFC Champions League for Pohang for instance or FC Seoul

    This award reeks of stupidity
     
  6. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    So basically...
    1. You can't show that it's transparent at all.
    2. You don't care about this award (great... that really adds to the discussion)
    3. Nobody said it should be dominated by Koreans and Aussies... but to not have any? That's just a joke.

    I've already shown you can't win this award if you're playing football in the AFC East.
     
  7. HiJazzey

    HiJazzey Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Al Ittihad Jeddah
    Woorijim,

    Sure it's a generalisation, but you have to admit it's a pretty good fit by and large. Look at how much you struggled to refute it, if anything it reinforced what I was saying.

    After huffing and puffing you came up with one arguably talented but burnt out player in Harry Kewel. A promising player back in his Leeds heyday but one that never delivered on his promise. A cautionary tale more than a success story.

    As for the others. I mean come on. Bolton. Everton. Celtic (post O'Neil). Are you purposely looking for teams with a reputation for ahem.. not appreciating the finer points in football? But let's quickly go through your list..

    - Scott McDonald. A tap in merchant. Useful of course, particularly when a team's tactic is to punt the ball into the box, but one dimensional.

    - Tim Cahill. A thug in a team of thugs. I haven't seen one game where he hasn't flown in with a 2 footed lunge. Not just in tackles mind you, but also meeting balls into the box with his trademark kung-fu kick. A disgrace of a player who too often gets away with it.

    - Lee CY. Aren't you jumping the gun a little by mentioning him. The Iranians made a similar fuss when Teymourian went to Bolton. But seriously anyone who doesn't immediately hoof the ball would be described a good passer in Bolton.

    - Park CY. Haven't seen him play in a while. I don't know, maybe he matured into a great player. I'll reserve judgement till I see him. But he's joined Monaco well after the party has moved on. They're a spent force in France.

    - Kim DJ. I hear the sound of barrel scraping.

    The thing is, you're making playing for any club in Europe a great achievement. There's a huge difference between the big dominant clubs in Europe, f.k.a. G14, and the rest. The gulf in standard is massive. IMO the quality of rank and file clubs are not much better than top clubs in other regions. They just have more visibility.

    There's nothing wrong in joining these teams. It helps you get noticed by the big clubs, but it's not an end in itself. You have to move forward from there and break in to the big time. Only 1 player has managed that, and that's Park JS. The rest should be weary of playing a couple of years without making an impact, then ending up at home or worse, Hilal or Nassr.
     
  8. HiJazzey

    HiJazzey Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Al Ittihad Jeddah
    Rick,

    Yes the award is stupid.
     
  9. aguy2die4

    aguy2die4 Member

    Mar 26, 2005
    Seoul/London
    - Kewell made it to Liverpool, a clear cut big dominant club, although he did not make a big impact over all and was injured a lot he was good enough. In any case Leeds in its day was a top flight team and Kewell was a big part of that nd in a way he had already realised his full potential while he was at Leeds. Liverpool was just suppose to be the icing on the cake.

    - Tim Cahil: Everton a club full of thugs? Maybe by Saudi league standards but in Europe let alone the Premiership, its called hard tackles and physical play. Perhaps Saudi NT will perform better against European teams, any European team be they top, middle or bottom tier European team, if Saudis had more or any players playing in teams like Everton or against teams like Everton week in and week out.

    - Lee Chung-ryong: its not only his recent performance at Bolton, he was already one of the players to look out for in the K-league in FC Seoul. Not to mention the fact to compare him to Teymourian is not appropriate. In the whole time Teymourian was at Bolton, add it all up and he still made less of an impact at Bolton then Lee Chung-ryong has so far this season. with regards to "anyone who doesn't immediately hoof the ball would be described a good passer in Bolton".....download the Bolton-Spurs game of last week and you will see a team who out-passed Spurs in both skill and flair by a country mile and Lee Chung-ryong was at the centre of it all, the catalyst. As for not being a big enough club, well Bolton was good enough for the likes of Nakata and Anelka and i dont see many players on that list who is better or will ever be better than Nakata.

    - Park Ju-young: From the moment he got off the plane he became a starter at Monaco. French pundits and football journalist was full of praise consistently through out the season last year and this year their praise and rating of him continues and infact have doubled if thats at all possible. Monaco had a new manager change, which didnt affect Park Ju-youngs starting position within the club, instead the new manager seems to be building a team around him and accodringly Monaco has had a great start to this season. How many AFC players can claim that a team is being around them?

    - Kim dong-jin: Just read the 2008 thread. His contribution to Zenit winning the UEFA Cup was significant and well recognised. Wouldnt you like a player who won the UEFA Cup medal in your squad?
     
  10. RickChelsea

    RickChelsea Member

    Sep 28, 2008
    sidknee
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mozambique
    Asia is not South America. There is not an abundance of world class talent here but the 5/6 players listed by guy are some of the best this region has to offer. You're taking the piss if you really think someone from the Maldives deserves a nomination over certain others from arguably the 2 strongest countries in the region.

    Common sense, use it.
     
  11. Elliad

    Elliad Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    You are distorting the point here - it's not the matter of domination, but a conspicuous lack of there of the nominees from those two countries.

    You claim you don't care about this award, and neither do I - but you'd sure be curious and have questions if KSA didn't have a single candidate while second tier nations and even a minnow like Maldives had a player shortlisted for it.

    This still applies even if it left out players playing Europe, because there are still a number of quality players from both countries playing in Asian leagues.
     
  12. HiJazzey

    HiJazzey Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Al Ittihad Jeddah
    Elliad,

    You make a fair comment, however I was not debating the merits of the list itself, which I don't think much of, but the general sentiment by those making a fuss that by rights such a list should be dominated by Koreans and Australians.

    FYK I do find the choice of Nasser a-Shamrani and Mohammed Noor to be curious. The first is not thought much of except by Shababis. He's a necessary evil while Yasser is busy daydreaming about his next trip to Beirut and players such as Malek Moath and Naif Hazzazi are injured. As for Mohammed Noor, he's IMO one of the greatest players to ever emerge from Asia, but it is funny that he's only noticed at the twilight of his career.
     
  13. HiJazzey

    HiJazzey Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Al Ittihad Jeddah
    aguy2die4,

    With all due respect, by the sounds of it you haven't followed the premier league much. I have. I lived in the UK for 12 years, followed the games and the media coverage, and attended a fair few matches as well. I'm in no mood to write another long post, so I'll keep it short.

    - While English football has changed a lot in recent years, the tactic of crunching tackles and hoofing the ball to the target man is a time honoured tradition. It's less prevalent in the premier league now, but some teams still do it. Teams like Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, and new entrants such as Stoke. There's a difference between teams that are strong and physical but play good football, and teams that rely on thuggishness.

    - Kewell's move to Liverpool was far from an icing on the cake. More like an attempt to resurrect a prematurely declining career (he was 25 when he moved). He was one of the stars of the Leeds wunderkids of the O'Leary era, but like the rest of that team his fortunes took a dive as quickly as it emerged. He was already injury prone then, but the combination of a team in crisis and a long term injury killed his promise.
     
  14. Sayf

    Sayf Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Club:
    Al Hilal Riyadh
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I agree that the Korean and OZ players are conspicuous by their absence, and I wouldn't claim that no OZ or Korean player is good enough. But here are the players who've been chosen as Man of the Match in the qualifiers.

    http://www.the-afc.com/en/2010-fifa-world-cup-samsung-man-of-the-match

    There are quite a few players from South Korea and Australia, and from North Korea also, so these players must have gathered *some* points. Not enough points to make the shortlist apparently, but we can't say it's because no one's picking them as MoM.

    There are players from Japan however on that list, but one thing no one's mentioned is that there's only 1 Iranian there and he plays for an Iranian club. The Japanese players are also all home-based.

    So, I think it's really just a case of the top Korean and OZ players being hurt by the fact that they play outside of Asia, rather than them being deliberately omitted. Otherwise, what incentive does AFC have to nominate players from Saudi Arabia and Bahrain (the two countries that did the most to unseat Bin Hammam), while countries like Iran and Australia (which were allies of Bin Hammam) get their best players omitted? And if it's an "East v. West" thing, then why is Japan represented? It's because Iran and Australia's best players (apart from Hadi Aghili) are based abroad and just don't have the same opportunity to collect points.

    Like I said way back, I don't think this is a good system. It's flawed and it discriminates unfairly, but I haven't been presented with any evidence of foul play. It's clear that Korean and Australian players do get picked as MoM.
     
  15. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Spin much?
    You keep saying this to pigeonhole people as thinking the list should have 20 Koreans and Australians. That is not the case at all.
    Nobody has suggested the list should be "dominated" by anyone. In fact, that's kind of the issue -- isn't it? The award has been "dominated" by people plying their trade in the Western half of AFC since a certain man took over.

    I think part of the issue is that we're not really sure how this process works.
    My impression is that these guys make a "short list", and then apply their fake points system to that list. Otherwise, what is the point of having "technical experts" (I read them being called something like this several times last year) make a "short list" in the first place?

    Your argument on Japan doesn't make much sense either. Japans best are also abroad. I suspect the only reason Japan is on is because JFA have managed to grab some power in AFC -- just look at ACL.

    But again, it's very telling that since 2002... not a single player plying their trade in East AFC has even been in the top3 at the end.
    It's telling that the 1 year they decide to open it up to Euros again, Naka and Park are still excluded.
    I could keep going on with my list from before... because none of it has been addressed.




    - In 2008, Schwarzer (Fulham), Burns (AEK Athens), and Ali Al Habsi (Bolton) were all short-listed. As a side note, many people apparently thought Endo deserved a piece last year. The fact is that he wasn't even in the top 3. He got beat out by Djeparov (Bunyodkor), Matar (Al Wahda), Soria (Qatar SC)
    - They were the first Euro-based players selected since 2005 when Nakamura (Reggina) finished 3rd.

    - In 2002 Shinji Ono (Feyenoord), Junichi Inamoto (Fulham), and Ahn Jung-Hwan (Perugia) were the 3 finalists (in order of winner to 3rd).
    - Since 2002, the only East Asian player to be in the top 3 was Nakamura. Twice in 2004 and 2005 -- finishing 3rd both times behind Ali Karimi (Al Ahli) and A'ala Hubail (Al Ahli) in 2004, and behind Hamad Al-Montashari (Al Ittihad) and Maxim Shatskikh (Dinamo Kiev) in 2005.
    - From 2003, the breakdown of finalists by country is as follows
    Thailand: 1
    Japan: 2 (both Naka)
    Iran: 2
    Uzbekistan: 3
    Bahrain: 1
    Kuwait: 1
    UAE: 1
    Qatar: 2
    Iraq: 2
    Saudi Arabia: 3

    - The breakdown by club country since 2003 is:
    Germany: 1 (Mahdavikia)
    Ukraine: 2 (both Maxim Shatskikh)
    Italy: 2 (both Naka)
    Thailand: 1
    Uzbekistan: 1
    Bahrain: 1
    Kuwait: 1
    Qatar: 3
    UAE: 3
    Saud Arabia: 3

    edit:
    Oh yea... and there wasn't a single South Korean short listed last year either.
    Two years in a row and not a single South Korean player worth mentioning? Yea... I believe that one.
     
  16. aguy2die4

    aguy2die4 Member

    Mar 26, 2005
    Seoul/London
    with due respect, i have also watched English football for a long time and it seems longer than you have, since i have watched it from the early 90s both Premiership and colaship level (the ole division one). I too have been to many matches, most recently to Chelsea this season.

    - you miss the whole point with regards to Bolton. Read again. Or watch the recent Bolton v Spurs match.

    - Kewell - who said it was the icing on the cake? It was suppose to be the icing on the cake but wasnt.

    Please do not try to throw anymore red herring or cite how well you know English football (just read my posts over the years regarding anything to do English football and you will realise why im less than impressed with people who cite their long interest in Englsih football as the sole basis of their argument with a couple of red herring thrown in).

    This is a clear cut case.
     
  17. woorijim

    woorijim Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Bucheon, South Korea
    The whole point of AFC excluding European-based players is also another sorry excuse. In this year's short list, the North Korean striker, Hong Young-Jo was on the shortlist and guess what? He's based in Russia playing at the club FC Rostov. If I remember correctly, Al Habsi of Oman was shortlisted last year although he was playing his football in England.

    Can anyone explain this? Didn't AFC make a ridiculous rule that all the European-based players are to be omitted in 2005 in order to make this AFC player of the year a "pride and prestigious" award for the Asian players?

    Also, can anyone tell me why a player like Khalfan Ibrahim won the award in 2006? He was 18 back then and he won the award. What did he achieve so much in 2006 except for the fact that he's from the same country with Bin Hammam? He participated in the FiFA U-17 in September, 2005 and scored a goal there. (Qatar finished the campaign with 3 losses out of 3 games.) His club team Al Sadd failed to make it out of the group stage at the ACL, so he wouldn't have gotten any points from there. Btw, a Korean club Jeonbuk won the ACL in that year, yet no Korean player was shortlisted in that year's Asian player of the year!

    So Khalfan scoring a goal at the FIFA U-17 is about the only thing that could have contributed to the points. Wow, a goal at the FIFA youth WC must have given him the points that excels all the others. :D FYI, In the AFC player of the year history, no 18 year old has ever won the award. Btw, where is he now? For a player who won the award at 18, an achievement no Asian player has ever done at that age, he must have become a Messi or something by now. ;)

    Now, can anyone see the logic behind this so-called transparent points system that the AFC has been using? Yes, a transparent system masterminded by the unknown hands. (We all know who that is, so I won't mention.) Well, that's what most of the Asian fans view (well, except for the fans located in the Middle East) as well as many Asian football journalists. Have a read on some European journalists' view on this conspiracy. It's really embarrassing for an Asian football fan in the first place. But, it also dampens the image of AFC to the level of African confederations. Of course, Bin Hammam and others don't care anything about this as long as the organization becomes more controllable by his influence.
     
  18. Sayf

    Sayf Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Club:
    Al Hilal Riyadh
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Dude they changed the system after 2006. The points system was only introduced in 2007 (I think everyone can agree that the 2005 and 2006 editions were a complete farce). By the way, they never said European-based players were ineligible; the rule was that you can't get the award unless you come to receive in person, and the European-based players were unable to take time off to fly all the way down to Malaysia or wherever these awards are given.
     
  19. woorijim

    woorijim Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Bucheon, South Korea
    Ok, so 2005 and 2006 editions were a complete farce. What about 2007 edition and 2008 edition and 2009 edition? :) If they changed the points system in 2006, how did Khalfan Ibrahim get nominated in the first place? He hasn't done absolutely nothing to be nominated even on the shortlist.

    Ok, that makes me confusing a lot more than before. So, European-based players are eligible now? Then, how come players like Park Ji-Sung, Scott Mcdonald, Tim Cahil, Hasebe or Park Chu-Young never got to be nominated even on the short list while the likes of Al Habsi of Oman are shortlisted although he himself is also based in England? Does AFC just assume that Al Habsi is the only European-based player that can attend to the ceremony so he was the only one short-listed?

    AFC rarely makes any comments in regards to this. If European-based players were eligible, why did they omit Park Ji-Sung or Nakamura while they shortlisted another European-based player like Al-Habsi? AFC needs to cut a clear line if they don't want to be disputed by any. But, it looks like they just want to hide everything that's related to this and then just hope this award ceremony just goes well smoothly like any normal day. They just don't care what others view their organization. I, as an Asian football fan, feel really ashamed that the AFC's reputation is being marred by the incident like this by the western media. Reading some of their articles make it sound like our organization is as corrupt & incompetent as some African confederations.
     
  20. Sayf

    Sayf Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Club:
    Al Hilal Riyadh
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Khalfan won it in 2006, didn't he? There was no points system back then.

    I'm not talking about this year. I meant back in 2005. I don't know maybe my memory is failing me, but I thought they went through two other players (based in Europe) who declined the invitation before they reached Montasheri (I could be wrong).

    I have an idea though, woorjim. Why doesn't some prestigious football magazine (e.g. the Australian edition of FourFourTwo) come up with its own award? The magazine can come up with its own criteria, and hire people to follow all the major Asian leagues (East and West), and select a player at the end of each year.

    In Europe, the Ballon D'Or is not given by UEFA but by a French magazine, yet it is arguably the most credible and prestigious award in all of football. So, if you think about it, we don't really *need* the AFC. This new award can either surpass the AFC's award in importance, or it can force the AFC to come up with a more acceptable system.
     
  21. woorijim

    woorijim Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Bucheon, South Korea
    I just hope western media or others living outside of Asia don't view us and our organization as some kind of corrupt one. TBH, if they want to keep embarrassing themselves with this Asian Player of the Year, they might as well just scrap it.

    AFC desperately needs to build its reputation on the world stage. But, all I'm seeing on the western media is all this negativity and incompetence associated with the AFC officials, especially in a ceremony like this.

    Yes, your idea sounds wonderful. But, we don't have any reputable magazines in Asia. AFC's award is about the only thing we rely on. And ever since a certain man took over, the award has become a total joke to us and to the outsiders, thereby dampening our whole image. This is what I'm so furious about. I also care rat's ass about who wins it. It's just the award - it's got nothing to do with a football fan like me. It just pisses me off that the AFC's childish tactic is being laughed at by the outsiders.
     
  22. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Going on previous years, another shortlist will be announced, AFC kind of do it in stages, so more announcments with Koreans will prop up at some stage.
     
  23. woorijim

    woorijim Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Bucheon, South Korea
    That's not the issue we're talking about. We're talking about the credibility of the Asian player of the year award and as to why no Australian or Korean players were listed, that was brought up ONLY to support the statement that the AFC player of the year award has been unfairly handled since 2006 by some "unknown influence" within the AFC organization.
     
  24. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    since 2003 as far as I'm concerned
     
  25. RickChelsea

    RickChelsea Member

    Sep 28, 2008
    sidknee
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mozambique
    Aussie fourfourtwo? Those guys are too busy getting drunk on their podcasts to do anything about this:p:D

    But that is a good point though
     

Share This Page