why so soon? we still have a week or so to figure things out I am being sarcastic of course Advocaat ponders tactical switch AMSTERDAM, June 6 (Reuters) - The Netherlands' disappointing form in the run up to the Euro 2004 finals has failed to dent the expectations of Dutch coach Dick Advocaat for the championship in Portugal. The Netherlands' 1-0 defeats within a space of eight days against Belgium and Ireland has raised doubts about their chances of progressing beyond the first phase of the competition, which kicks off on June 12. However, Advocaat believes the team has learnt some important lessons from the two matches. 'We used this week to improve our physical condition and from Tuesday we will prepare for the match against Germany,' said Advocaat. 'We are still discussing our tactical plans and it is possible that we could switch to a 4-3-3 (formation) instead of the 4-4-2.' Barcelona midfielder and Dutch captain Philip Cocu agreed with his coach. 'It is obvious that with wingers our positional play is better but it is important that everyone feels comfortable with the same tactics,' he said. 'This week we have to decide what we will do.' Clarence Seedorf is expected to have recovered from hamstring problems for his team's opening Group D encounter against Germany on June 15. Although an MRI scan on Sunday showed no significant damage to the muscle, Seedorf will have the injury examined again on Monday before the squad travels to Portugal on Tuesday. If the Dutch switch to a 4-3-3 format, Ruud van Nistelrooy is likely to be the only striker in the team especially since Patrick Kluivert is struggling to find his form.
He's not just 'pondering', he's made up his mind. In this morning's papers he's quoted saying that the diamond clearly doesn't work, that he'll go back to playing 4-3-3 with one striker. He's just not sure who the striker will be at this point. So it'll look something like this I reckon: -----------------Sar--------------- Reiziger--Stam--Cocu---Van Bronkhorst --------Sneijder------Davids-------- ---------------Vd Vaart-------------- Vd Meijde-------RvN--------Robben (or Overmars)
Advocaat said that the diamond system failed. It is likely that he's going to play with one attacking wing midfielder and one defensive midfielder and one striker, according to the 'Volkskrant'. And because Van der Meyde did well, maybe he's in the starting 11 against germany. I hope that Heitinga will replace Bouma in the center, dunno if that's going to happen. ---------------------------Van der Sar-------------------------------- ------------Reiziger-------Heitinga----Stam-----------Van Brockhorst--- --------------Cocu-----------Van der Vaart-------------Sneijder----- ---------Van der Meyde*-------- Van Nistelrooy**-------- Davids------- * or Robben when he's fit **or Makaay
Dick has no business being the Oranje head coach!! He blows!! He has no clue how to handle his players and insists on playing Kluivert "the ass" in the starting team. I sincerely hope that the tactical switch will improve the teams performances. Especially since Kluivert would most likely be on the bench.
Yeah, but Ruud has better form.. maybe not a great deal better, but he did score 2 in the FA Cup final... albeit a penalty and a tap in.. however his positional sense is great and he is the best Single Striker you have.. perhaps the best in the world... certainly very high anyway... Johan.. that is a scary team... Robben and Meijde will really do the trick.. ummm... 1900... why in heaven's name is Davids playing LWF? He must be used as DM or LCM in a 4-3-3 because of his tackling and energy to make if seem as if u have 4 men in the middle...
Not so sure about that. Makaay has out-scored him over the past two years I think. At least Roy was Europe's top scorer last year and the Bundesliga's top scorer this year. That's two different teams and neither are as offensively oriented as Man Utd. If I had my way I think Roy would edge out Ruud as the striker in a 4-3-3.
Perhaps he has outscored him, but that is playing in Germany as opposed to England A) and also, he played most of the time w/ a parter... and Ruud missed about 8 games to injury this season and he outscored Makaay last year... but anyway... goals is not what I was arguing... I was talking about operating without a partner... Ruud's movement, strength and speed are a key asset... also in an isolated role, his dribbling (underrated) is an asset that aids him in holding up the ball for other players... plus.. he plays for ManU
if you mean he is the best striker when playing alone, kluivert would definitely be the best striker to play as the #9 in this 4-3-3. he started his career at ajax in that formation and his skills suit the position the best. as for davids playing on the left. i dont think 1900 meant to have davids as a winger, but to have an uneven midfield. one winger and one outside midfielder. davids has played on the left before for juve and the oranje
what worries me about Ruud is that he pretty much has to be standing on the goal line to score(or pk..how many of his goals in EPL were from a pk?), I just don't recall him scoring from outside of the 18 yard box. Makaay, even though I have seen less of him over the years, I have at least seen him score plenty from further out. For this reason I would like Makaay to start but when has he ever had the chance to play the entire game?
He hasn't shown sh!t for the Dutch NT. He looks like a little mongol most of the time. Like astaboot said, Kluivert is our man for the 4-3-3. I think there is no striker in the world as capable as him when fed with decent balls from the sides. Makaay and RvN might show their value throughout the tournament, but I'd definately start with Kluivert. My pick (quite hard to pick I must say) -------------------------------SAR---------------------------------------- Reiziger----------------Stam-----------Heitinga---------------Van Bronckhorst -------------------Sneijder---------Davids--------------------------------- -----------------------------VDV----------------------------------------- VDM------------------------Kluivert------------------------------Overmars This is probably what it would look like for me.
i agree with everything you said and i like your lineup i am just unsure if the defense is strong enough without cocu in the middle. its not only a matter of the defense tho, i just really like cocu all around. imo if DICK isnt going to play johnny then cocu should take the spot and make sure bouma is on the bench!!! i have 100% confidence in reiziger, stam, gio, edwin, davids, cocu, and kluivert. i am farely confident any 2 of the 3 wingers (i am NOT including zenden) will be good enough, pretty much sure they wont suck but not knowing if they will be special. if i am correct, good showings from sneijder and raffy make this the best team out there imo.
If we play anywhere near decent come next week, I think Overmars will show that he's still got it. You heard it here first. Davids hasn't gotten much better over the past year, but he'll hang in there. It all depends on how much work the old boys are willing to put in. The youngsters will be there, but they can't do it on their own.
You are right, he does not score many from outside the 18... but do me a favor.. go to ManU's board and the thread that says, Ruud can't score from outside the 18.... u will be in for a treat... but thats not really the point... u don't play strikers to score from outside the 18... Ruud is as clinical finisher as there is... he just needs the ball to be supplied to him - once that is done, he will score, or set up his teammates... he probably only had 4 goals or 5 from the pk spot this season.. he missed maybe 3 this year if not more... dont know what was wrong with him and his pks this season... I guess if u want someone who cannot score against Spanish defences, vs someone who can score against English defences, then u are entitled to having him... I can see Makaay over Ruud, but not Kluiv - who despite standing a foot taller than his defenders, does not assert himself physically often enough for my liking...
Except when he plays for his country... he's on an island and always walking into places he shouldn't be. Now that could partly be attributed to his teammates as well. But I don't recall him passing one single defender while wearing orange. And when he manages not to fumble the ball, break his neck over the ball or just hide from the ball... he shoots like an old cow. I know he's a great footballer, but so far not in oranje.
i agree with the 2nd part, but not the first. he isnt flashy, doesnt really create his own goals, etc and pretty much isnt a very good player, but he has great positioning/timing and is a very good finisher from inside the 18 which is where he scores all his goals. i dont really like players that can only score by tap-ins and such, but he is a very very good player (for club) and i dont think that can be argued.
ok you are right then. cuz all these man u fans think he should 100% be the starter for the oranje and that he is great.
AHHHHH!!!! i knew it was coming, but here is the confirmation snipets since i cant post the whole article Van Nistelrooij gets the nod Ruud van Nistelrooij will lead the Dutch attack in their opening UEFA EURO 2004™ match against Germany on Tuesday, coach Dick Advocaat has decided. The choice of the Manchester United FC player as the sole striker in a 4-3-3 formation effectively ends Patrick Kluivert's eight-year reign as first-choice striker. Advocaat unimpressed "I believe Van Nistelrooij is the best choice for the team. He has proved in the past that he can score at the top level. None of the four strikers really impressed me during the training sessions and the friendly matches we played, but I believe Ruud is a real match player," Advocaat said. bad news (maybe, i still have faith in seedorf): The Netherlands have one injury doubt as attacking midfield player Rafael van der Vaart skipped the second training session on Wednesday because of injury and will struggle to keep his place. http://www.euro2004.com/News/Kind=1/newsId=189625.html
Ok... i went a bit overboard on PK, however... the same way MU fans drool over VanNistelrooij is the same way Oranje fans remember what Kluivert did 5 years ago... they are both class players... both with problems... Ruud seemingly cant get it together for Holland... Kluivert is a greedy bastard and has not been brilliant in club football to suggest that he could be the lone striker (at least imo) and he and Ruud cannot form a good partnership... I think Ruud's ability in the box is insane, he finishes so many of his chances, but even more amazing is how many times he finds himself in the right place for ManU... I think that perhaps you are right, maybe he should not be the starter for the Oranje because your coach and his teammates dont know how to use him... however imo if the coach worked out a way to make him more effective that would be best... I don't mean tailor the team to him... i think its probably just a few small adjustments that the midfielders/wingers have to make (and get used to him... u have strong aerial threats in Kluiv and Makaay but a bit of a poacher in Ruud...) but i could be wrong... if u are not gonna use Ruud the right way then u might as well use Kluiv and Makaay the right way, because even if he is the best finisher inside the box on the planet he still cannot finish if he does not get the chances...
More than anything, RVN just doesn't fit into the traditional Dutch game. Most strikers for the Dutch have had to create chances and play almost like mids. At United, RVN benefits from having one of the best midfields in the world to create and get the ball to him anytime he finds the smallest space. Unfortunately, that's not really the way Holland are used to playing. If RVN was English or German, he might draw more praise at the international level, since I think he would fit into those teams' styles better. It just hasn't worked out that way for him so far. FWIW, I have seen him burn defenders pretty badly at the club level. He has excellent ball control as far as I can see, but he tends to use it sparingly for United. I wonder why he doesn't do it more often for his country. Hopefully this will be the tournament where he and the Dutch pull it all together.