Advanced stats of great players in random games

I had the numbers a bit different mate, checking for passes (22 successful, 4 unsuccessful I thought) and crosses (10 successful, 11 unsuccessful) - according to whether a Forest or Cologne player made first contact. Maybe you had more unsuccessful cross attempts recorded when a defender made a block on the wing though (I only had one of those as an attempted cross I think, as some others seemed just like blocks/tackles and the ball goes for a corner or something).

There are 1 or 2 interceptions maybe - one moment just before 5 minutes seems slightly uncertain regarding whether he played the ball but if so it's either an interception that goes to a Forest defender or a pass to that Forest defender I'd think. A bit later there was an interception in central midfield by him though anyway.

NIce work on Piantoni/Fontaine/Kopa (plus Brindisi and various others you've added) - I tend to think it seems like Piantoni was/played better in 1958 himself (more in his prime age) but yeah there aren't compilations for his 1958 games (and he didn't play vs Germany anyway). I suppose with those older players it's a bit 'luck of the draw' about what's available to see in full - I know that Tom Finney was disappointed with his 1954 FA Cup Final display, even though evidently yeah he still had some dribbles and danger creation moments (he'd come back from injury not long before that game but anyway yeah said uncomplimentary things about his own performance that day - it was potentially being billed as the 'Finney Final' in waiting after the Matthews Final the previous year (even if Matthews thought that label was wrong himself given Mortensen scored a hat-trick and I know some people labelled Stan Mortensen's funeral the Matthews Funeral as a joke, even if plenty of people did back up how great Matthews played in the '53 Final actually)

 

I combined both crosses from corners and other crosses myself too tbh yeah. Maybe re: blocked 'crosses' we'd have to consult Opta - for some occasions I would think Robertson hadn't yet attempted to cross and he was just tackled/blocked (but one time at least I had it down as a cross attempt myself when he'd actually kicked the ball and the defender blocked it).

I suppose he had 2 pre-assists: I think you had one of them down as a key pass and not the other (maybe you felt one gave a goalscoring chance or something). There was one moment, separate to those, where he had a near pre-assist I think (verging on BCC either for the player who makes the header or for the one who kind of gets in to shoot at the far post).

The main thing though is that I only saw 4 unsuccessful passes and you have got him on 14 it seems (I wonder if you wrote 4 down and mis-read it on paper or something, or accidentally recorded it as 14 by pressing the 1 key by mistake). I'll have another look now, but I don't think I missed 10 anyway (I'll get you a timestamp for the near BCC too, just for interest as maybe it wouldn't be recorded as another Opta stat other than successful cross, I'm not sure)....

 

Ah, sorry, I just digested/noticed that sentence at second reading. That explains it! But I think Opta treat crosses and passes as separate events don't they, so the unsuccesful crosses shouldn't be tallied as unsucessful passes too (I guess that'd mean that to match with Opta you'd have to change some other posts too though)....

 

Yeah, here is the passing definition @Al Gabiru
(I did count some balls by Robertson, from wide into the penalty area, as chipped passes rather than crosses in effect I remember, when I was counting)
Opta Event Definitions
"The attempted delivery of the ball from one player to another player on the same team. A player can use any part of their body (permitted in the laws of the game), to execute a pass. Event categorisation includes open play passes, Goal kicks, corners and free kicks played as a pass. Crosses, keeper throws, and throw ins do not count as a pass. Opta adds a whole range of qualifiers to each pass event, so that various things can be measured.

• Chipped Pass – A lofted ball with an intended recipient. Must be over shoulder height and using the passes height to avoid opposition players.
• Headed Pass – A header when there is an intended recipient.
• Launch – A long high ball into space or an area for players to chase or challenge for the ball.
• Flick-On – A glancing pass with head or foot onto a teammate when the ball is helped on in the same general direction.
• Pull back – A pass inside the penalty area which is pulled back.
• Lay-Off – A first time pass away from Goal when there is pressure on the passer (typically played by a forward) with one touch when they have their back to Goal from the Goal-line to the centre of the penalty area.
• Through Ball – A pass splitting the defence for a team mate to run on to.
• Tap Pass – A short pass after a dead ball situation which cannot have a lost outcome.

 

The crosses definition does seem a bit unclear re: balls into the penalty area or proximity of the goal (I think for me some of them were clearly in effect passes, whether along the ground or aerial, but I'm not quite sure if they'd be classified as such based on this):
"A ball played from a wide position targeting a teammate(s) in a central area within proximity to the Goal. The delivery must have an element of lateral movement from a wider position to more central area in front of Goal. "

The one I had down as a definite interception was at 5:40 anyway @Al Gabiru - but at 6:56 (the moment I remembered as a near chance) I think it's only be a successful cross anyway (assuming there was contact by the head) as the number 7 O'Neill doesn't get a clear shot opportunity in the end....

But yeah, to be comparable with their data for world cups, ongoing current leagues etc, the unsuccessful crosses should be removed from the passing success data.

 

That doesn't seem clear to me tbh though (is it possible you got the wrong impression?).

Reading between the lines, I'd think if they count a 'corner played as a pass' (i.e passed to a team-mate) as a pass then they'd count a 'corner played as a cross' (which would fit their crossing definition) as a cross.

Maybe we'd have to investigate stats for known performances (such as World Cup ones maybe - although can WhoScored, Sofascore etc even have their own categorisations dervied from Opta data?) to be sure though....

 

Yeah, sometimes it seems Gemini AI (I use internet/search engine version) tries to give an answer even when it doesn't know something. For example it 'told' me Sandro Mazzola's 1994 World Cup XI, but when I checked if it had made it up or could point me to a reference it did confirm it was the first option.

For Opta it seems to be ok at pointing us to the definitions, and providing a summary while it does that, but maybe it got mixed up if it was suggesting corners and crosses were 'separate events' (or maybe it misunderstood the question - what you would want to know was whether a players crosses data includes crosses from corners I suppose, and unless it could show you a reference saying it doesn't then I'd doubt a conclusion that says that - also considering that IIRC on Sofascore for example the players data will show crosses but not corners taken won't it? - because I guess corners taken are categorised as crosses or sometimes, as already confirmed by the Opta definition, passes).

I guess if you did want to break down your presented data by open play and set piece crosses it could still be good (arguably better thah Opta's way, but maybe not directly comparable to it), but yeah unsuccessful crosses shouldn't be recorded as unsuccessful passes (and doing so would make players passing accuracy seem much worse often, compared to the data on Sofascore etc we can see for example).