Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká You will just have to stomach it. In Worlod Cup years in the past, for example. the CBF took the players away frmo February and gave them back after the Copa!!
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká I know they don't care about other fans and for them the players are only a mean to an end, that is winning trophies and making money, but if we can at least make their life a little more difficult like they do with ours, then let's go for it.
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká Here's an idea: Why don't you just root for Milan as it is practically a Brazilian team in itself and stop obsessing over International soccer?
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká Would it be outrageous to claim that the CBF doesn't take care of the players compared to high level clubs? If I remember correctly is was one CBF decision to lure Ronaldo out of injury in 98' only for him to be near dead sick for the World Cup final? Which cost them the game no doubt. Milan takes immense care of its players..so dont talk about sh!t you know nothing about. Kaka is an investment granted, just like every other club player on the face of the earth. There's a reason why Kaka signed a one year deal, because after he shows his class he'll be more then legible for a bigger salary: how does 1.+ a million sound for a bloody 22 year old! So ofcourse the management is cautious when you take players like Kaka away simply because the CBF is damned reckless.
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká what the fvck is you problem? i like international football and i have every right to say i like international football. i dont care about Milan. i dont follow them. i know milan takes care of they players. they should better. they pay them well and they win scudetto last year. the brasileiros they have there help them win. what part of post i write did i not say that again??? oh thats right i did say that. here i post it for you again: so why dont you shut the fvck up about "what I don't know" since you dont even know how to read. and while you at it why dont you actually watch world cup 1998 and do research on what happend with Ronaldo. ja - you are the one that dont know what he talking about. anytime to see guys like Kaka, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Lucio, Luis Fabiano, Cafu etc. etc. play with eachother is rare and special thing to me. i dont care about busness side becaus i not the one making millions dollar from playr. but i am one of millions of fan of football and of the selecao. maybe you forget what it like to be a fan of Brasil, or maybe you not really fan of Brasil. otherwise you would know there is no prerequisite of being a fan and how special it is to see best of Brasileiros playing together.
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká Haha. Is it a general opinion in the rest of the world that CBF was responsible for Ronaldo playing in the 98 final even though he had had some kind of sudden illness that day just hours before the match? Because here in Brazil we blame it on Nike. hehehe
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká You said that Milan presents itself similar to a cattle hearder did you not? I'm sorry but that strikes me as a somewhat odd comment given the respect and admiration that Milan fans share all over the world for players like Kaka and Dida; that is just an after-effect which something like radiance promises. You get mad when Brazil loses just like any other national patriot. Forgive me for seeming ill-empathetic because my interpretation of the Barzilian League is an organization that promotes some of the worlds most promising talent and so therefore I have no sympathy for the CBF when they lose because they naturally perform with the best players. Maybe its a coaching problem? I certainly wouldn't know, but regardless of how well or not well the CBF performs it shouldn't convince you that a respected team like Milan is the culprit. If you would like to increase the potency of your writing etiquette, you would do well to wash your mouth out with soap and water first.
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká More mindless Milan/Euro hating on the behalf of the local Brazilian contingent. Typical. I can't even read the article recently posted so I can't tell what they whining on everyones part is about. All I can say is that European teams pay a lot of money for players, pay them and take good care of them, anything else is extra. That being said, the season is over! Why do Milan care if Kaka plays for the Selecao now? I don't understand. I suppose they don't want him to get burned out with too many matches.
It's Canzano, the fabulous Plastic Italian! yes the fans do. the administration though they buy players to help them win and make happy fans. The more they win the more money they make. they dont want those players to play for brasil becaus of liability. gee that sound like ownership to me. Its not rocket science. Then again you are in Canada so maybe you dont really know how football work in Italy or any country that have professional league. they respect players because they good and get them result. they probly nice guys. so what? in this thread you italy fans act like you own players being so yeah that like cowboy owning his cattle. "Barzilian"... how clever of you. Of course you dont care. You not a fan of Brasil. you a fan of Canada and probably because Canada suck you hang onto Italy or "Milan". in otherword you not really a fan at all. that would explain why you come to Brasil forum and complain about brasil fans that want to see they players play... all i know is that U-23 could have useed kaka in qualifying. maybe they still wont qualitfy but it wouldnt have hurt to have him there since he they captain and all. and i dont blame just Milan for if CBF do not do well. do you ever read this forum? i always talk about CBF and problem in it. no you dont read this forum you probly just read Canada forum. Oh no thats right you follow Milan. ja right! i dont care about milan except for the CBF player they have. good for them if they do good but i like seeng them on National team too. **ahem** "If you would like to increase the potency of your point of view, you would do well to harness whatever remaining (and fully functioning) brain cells you have left and attempt to create a cognitive opinion that doesn't escape your mouth in the same manner a fart escapes your ass. Further - if you continue to make ridiculous assumptions based on my writing etiquette, perhaps you would be better served at viewing the expression: "fvck off" as more of a helpful suggestion."
Mod Note Jawz - don't troll this forum. This part of your post is trolling. The rest is fine, but I will bin anything that will set off the "whiney local Brazilian contingent" from here on. Everyone else - Cool off. State your opinion. Stop with the insults.
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká A very helpful suggestion to make on the Brazil board, of course. Such a confrontational streak you have, Canzano. The last time I read one of your illuminating posts, you came into the Madrid boards talking mad sh!t when Real got knocked out of the Champs League...right up until Milan got knocked out 24 hours later.
Re: It's Canzano, the fabulous Plastic Italian! Milan doesn't 'need' to make money like a franchise 'needs' in order to stay in business. A rich owner and a massive fan base is all a European club requires to establish permanence kind of like what the New York Yankees have: a backbone form economic stability. And like the Yankees Milan's objective is to dominate, and what better way to achieve that than buy very talented players at bargain prices and help mold them into successful team-players who will contribute to the clubs success and hopefully return to their respective national places as even better players since departing their place of football origin. That was all I wanted to say and nothing more. Edit: This is your final warning. You continued with insults after my warning. Do it again, you will be banned from this forum. --Alex_1
This is why I hate club teams. ********** them all to h*ll! Who cares if they pay his salary? Any club should be GREATFUL to have a player that is good enough to represent his country, especially if it is one of the top countries in the world like Brazil, playing on their team and should be THANKFUL that the player even plays one match for them all season long. Oh no, they might have to go without him for a month? WHO CARES? It's just stupid club football. No one should even care about that. Clubs should just be like a 'farm system' for players to work on their skills when there is nothing going on at the international level, or improve their skills so that they can make it to the international level. I dunno if you guys are familiar with MLB, but each of the major teams have several teams that they own from lower levels where they have players developing and they call up if they get an injury or something. Well, that's what football should be like. If the Yankees need a new shortstop because theirs got hurt, he gets sent up, no questions asked. You will never hear stories about how the Lansing Lugnutts (a AAA team) refused to send up a pitcher to the Chicago Cubs because the 'nutts are in the AAA playoff race and need to win. That doesn't happen because each team in the 'baseball world' knows its place. The Cubs have a shot at the World Series, which is the biggest event in baseball, and the Lugnutts best thing is a AAA Championship. The Cubs > Lugnutts so they get the pitcher and the Lugnutts end up losing their important game, but who cares because the pitcher got sent up and helped the Cubs get closer to their goal of a World Series Championship, so the Lugnutts should be proud that their guy was able to do so well at the highest level. Yeah, the Lugnutts would love to have their pitcher back to help them win, but they don't complain that they will not make the AAA playoffs without that pitcher because they realize that he has higher priorities and they were just happy that he was able to help them win a few games while he was with them. It *should* be the same for international and club teams. Brazil > Milan (and every other club) and Brazil (or any other nation) should always be put in the best position to win, even if it is at the expense of whatever club the player comes from. International football trumps everything, or at least it should. If there is an absolutely meaningless friendly between two countries the same day as the most important match in a club's history... a player should play in that friendly for his country if he is called up for the roster. Maybe that is a little too extreme, but that is how I would like to see it. And we are a long ways away from that when you have situations like this for Kaka and whatnot. Milan should be thrilled that they have a player capable of playing on so many levels at the international stage. I can understand that they want him to play for them as much as possible, but like I said above, they should be thankful that he even plays one match for them, and if he wishes to play in EVERY SINGLE GAME that the Brazilian national teams plays, then by all means he should be allowed to without any type of resistance from the team who 'pays him'. I dunno what control FIFA has over club teams, but there should be like some huge fines and maybe even point deductions if a club refuses to release a player to play on the international stage. This is a huge problem with Caribbean football. I read atricles all the time that say so-and-so weren't able to field a full strength squad because their top players weren't released from their clubs or something. That p*sses me off so much! An example of this is the Netherland Antilles. Some of their guys weren't released to play in the 1st leg vs Antigua & Barbuda and the Netherland Antilles ended up losing that game 2-0. They put on a lot of pressure and were able to get several of their top guys released. The result? They ended up beating Antigua & Barbuda 3-0 in the 2nd leg and advanced on a 3-2 aggregate win. But just think, what if those players weren't released for the 2nd leg and Antigua & Barbuda won again, knocking Netherland Antillies out of the World Cup? The Netherland Antillies would be done with their 2006 World Cup campaign right now just because they couldn't field the best possible team because of some stupid club's agenda. ********** that. Club teams are too powerful now and something needs to be done about it. Like I said, I dunno what powers FIFA has when it comes to the club level, but there should be some serious penalties for teams who refuse to release players, because these clubs are harming the international game. International teams should be able to field the best possible team they can every time they take the field. Netherland Antillies should not show up to their match against Honduras this June without some of their top players (like they probably will) just because some gay club in Holland wanted to win some stupid league match or whatever. We are talking about the World Cup here folks. Nothing compares to the World Cup... nothing is even close. The Super Bowl, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, World Series, Kentucky Derby, etc. None of them even hold a candle to the World Cup. Yet for some reason club teams think they are more important that the greatest sporting event in the world.... something is definitally wrong!
Re: It's Canzano, the fabulous Plastic Italian! okay that good but see problem is that when it come time for these player to return to they national team, a team like milan make it VERY hard for them to go. i never say milan like a "franchise". franchise is like a US sport team or McDonalds. that is obvious. evrey team want to dominate. but you need to look at it from diffrent way. how do you get a good big fanbase? how important are fan base to club? how m,uch money do club make for being in Serie A? or Championsleague? or league cup? where do they get money in serie A? if they dont buy the players then someone else will - how do that effect them and they ability to make money? football is business. just look at madrid. despite all they money and fan base they still want to make money and see this year as failure in many ways. no title, nothing and 4th place finish. even richest of owner get mad at failure to achieve results because if they lose money then it like a very very poor return on investment. rich poeople dont stay rich by losing money time and time and time again. even in Chelsea for England they got billionaire owner who try to buy all these good players and still they dont win a title. he will make change to improve team. why do he want to improve team? he want to make more money from titles, have a dynasty. yeah he a football fan but he also a business person.
Re: Mod Note Yeah, yeah, thats all well and good and I understand. What I don't understand is why posters in this forum are allowed to call AC Milan (and/or its fans) all sorts of obscene things, and any type of response, no matter how controlled and non-confrontational, no matter how drastically tame in comparison, no matter how sparse, is... trolling? And then a very polite, "hey guys calm down" to the baiters? But hey, your call. You da man!
Re: Mod Note Jawz - I have never gone to your forums and referred to the Italian posters as the "whiney local contingent" - regardless of any animosity towards different federations. Further - your posts and a few others have hardly been "non-confrontational". If you want to discuss this further, then by all means send me a PM or open up dialogue in the mods forum. Attacks on posters either way will not be tolerated. Discuss your opinions, drop the insults. Its a simple concept. Case closed.
Re: AC Milan threatens Brazil over Kaká I know this thread has been going for some months now, but I thought I might weigh in? As a HUGE Brasil fan, I would like to see Kaka play for any Brasilian team that is put forward. But Milan does pay him a lot of money to play for them, and the way salaries are now, they need to have their best players available to insure they get into the lucrative European club championships. Within reason, I think Milan or any other club will release a star player to his national duties. But let's say that in those fringe cases when it is not absolutely VITAL, the player in question would be given the option of not getting paid the portion of his salary while he is away. I think most high paid players would buy in. They get paid, for the most part, while also getting to play for the selecao. I realize its sort of a pipe dream, but I wonder if something like this would float...
AC Milan threats, again Kaká, Cafu and Dida received "orders" from AC Milan to not attend the call to play in the friendly against Haiti. Not only AC Milan show their total lack of sensitivity (surprise!) over Brazil's efforts to bring some happiness to the Haitian people, they also think they own the players and are on top of FIFA's rule of sanctioned dates for NT games.
Re: AC Milan threats, again Yeah, what the ********s the matter with Milan They have the audacity to think they own the players. Incredible
Re: AC Milan threats, again Why in the world is anyone surprised that an employer is trying to prevent its employees from volunteering for something thousands of miles away? How is this remotely strange? For me its always been club over country, to be honest, mostly because club football is the bread and butter of the game. Its what creates fans and improves players. The World Cup is icing on the cake. I do believe that players should be released for the Cup, and for qualifying. But for a friendly in Haiti? Is there a reason for Brazil to take its full squad of senior internationals, and force some of them to fly from Europe to Haiti? I don't think so.
Re: AC Milan threats, again But FIFA is sanctioning the game and the rules specify that countries can call on players for FIFA sanctioned dates. They know the strings that come attached to the player when they award those multimillion contracts. Now they complain about something they knew was certain to happen. It's an easy matter to fix, just get the clubs to follow the rules. Why is it that the players can only play in europe? Are the europeans any better than the rest of the world? They depend so much on players from other continents that they have to make rules as to how many non-europeans can play on each team. Brazil and FIFA are trying to do a humanitarian gesture for the haitians, but I guess the europeans don't know what the word means.
Didn't we have this debate before the Olympic Qualifying vis-a-vis Kaka's (non)participation? The thing is, everyone is right. Spartak and Nicephoras correctly point out that as the primary employers of the players the clubs are just looking out for their best interest and trying in any manner possible to influence participation. Any business person would do the same. Psykoh, MIG et al are also right in that the rules of engagement are known to all and are FIFA sanctioned. Also, as business persons, whenever you purchase an asset you have to do your due diligence and identify potential risks associated with the purchase .... in this case world class players will inevitably be called up for duty at their NTs perogative. Obviously the world footballing calendar needs to be rationalized to minimize events that take players away from clubs; however, humanitarian efforts of this nature cannot ever be truly planned or "slotted." There also needs to be flexibility to allow for such extraordinary circumstances (and the best corporations, as true corporate citizens, have human outreach programs). Finally, what of national pride? Italians (as an example only) are extremely proud people and love the Azzurri (sp). What if Nesta, Buffon, Zambrotta, Totti, Cassano, and Maldini all played in S.American or N.American leagues, and where "leaned" on not to represent Italy in a state sponsored event to provide relief to Ethiopia? Would any Italians object? I think so. What if Cassano had been kept out of a significant youth level tournament in the same way it occured with Kaka for the Olympics? I can think of a couple of BS posters on the ITaly board who would have coughed. National pride is also part of the conversation; with the Selecao being as strong a national symbol to Brasilians as any they have. Due to the current economics of football -- both in terms of financial strenght and the world football calendar invariably molding to its seasons -- European NTs of the "bigger" leagues thankfully don't have to deal with this issue.
Re: AC Milan threats, again Just because you know the rules, doesn't make them fair or reasonable. I support any club's position in this. And I say this as someone neither of who's teams have ever been particularly hard hit by this. Because that's where the top leagues are. And that's where the top money is. Look, if you want to force a crisis of club vs. country, clubs will win. Because as much as players love playing for their country, they like feeding their kids more. Why even mention this, aside from a pointless swipe at Europe? Will the humanitarian intention of the match be somehow diminished if some European based players don't go? Brazil has plenty of top talent playing in Brazil. They don't need Kaka for a friendly and force him and Cafu to fly halfway around the world for a match where he is not needed. Btw, nice needless swipe agains Europeans again.
This is true. But I believe there's an implied "reasonableness" to these call-ups. I don't forsee Milan comlaining about World Cup qualifiers. But a meaningless friendly in Haiti? Is there really a reason that Cafu needs to fly from Italy to Haiti for one match that's for charity? Will the effect of the match be ruined if Gustavo Nery plays? This is also true. These events cannot be scheduled. But again - is Kaka really necessary for this effort? The Selecao side that went to the Copa was largely domestically based. (And I don't think Sao Paulo was too happy about Fabiano's absence, if I recall correctly. Their fans certainly weren't! ) This is, of course, the crux of the issue. But what's to stop Brazil from creating a rolling series of friendly matches wherever they want every other week? And calling up Kaka and Cafu every time? Nothing. If UEFA ever stood up to FIFA and challenged players to state "club or country" - I have a feelng quite a few will choose club. Because that's who pays them. And I don't think anyone wants that scenario. There have been plenty of players who've chosen not to play for their NTs, choosing to concentrate on their club teams. (Redondo's always the one that makes me think of players who regrettably never played on the international stage at their peaks.) No one I know of has ever decided to forego club soccer to concentrate on their national team. To sum up - no one is wrong in this discussion. But in my opinion, there's no real reason why Cafu and Kaka need to be at this friendly. Sure, it'd be nice, but not necessary. And Milan is more than justified in making that argument. P.S. The national pride argument in this particular context is a bit off target - this is, supposedly, a game for the Haitians, not for national pride.