Abel Xavier's infamous handball (Euro 2000)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Kebbie Gazauzkas, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    I recently watched some clips from the Euro 2000 tournament (one of my favourite major soccer championships) and came across this ghost from the past.

    Please start watching from 2:14:40.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsBSrm8jCVA"]Portugal Vs France- 28/6/2000 Semi-finals - YouTube[/ame]

    In your opinion, was this a stonewall penalty or could the defender and his team have been given the benefit of the doubt? At the time, the "golden goal" rule was in place, so there was no coming back once a team fell behind in extra time.

    My personal opinion is that the assistant referee made the correct decision (a very brave one as well), as the ball was going to enter the goal if the defender had not interfered by instinctively stretching out his arm.

    Regarding the evolution of the rules of the game, do you think that a penalty like that would be more or less likely to be awarded today (early 2010s) as opposed to in the early 2000s?

    I remember that quite a few Portuguese players received bans for manhandling the referees in the aftermath of the match and there were allegations of pro-France conspiracies, which I personally regarded as ridiculous.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, when I saw what this was about, I was certain we had discussed it before. But then I realized I didn't join until 2001, so it had to have been a retroactive discussion. The AR's name is Igor Sramka of Slovakia (trios were not used at this tournament), who was praised by UEFA for this call. He got several big assignments after this and, one might argue, helped launch Lubos Michel's career. So, I punched Sramka's name into the search function (because I figured it was the term that would narrow the results most) to see what came up. To my surprise, there has been no long discussion about this incident. But, I did find this:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=676521&highlight=sramka

    Kebbie, it looks like a real-life case of deja vu! No complaints from me, as this is one of my favorite "famous" incidents, but you seemed to have brought the same topic up 3 years ago.

    Anyway, to your questions...

    1) Penalty for me. I see a deliberate attempt to make himself bigger and make sure the near post is protected. And yes, a hugely brave decision by the referee given the stage (EURO semifinals), the consequence (penalty and likely game over) and the fact that this was probably one of the few times this AR and referee ever worked together (if not the first time).

    2) More likely to be awarded today. This was a big deal back then. The usual junk about an AR from a "minor" country who got the assignment as a political prize was spread around. When, in reality, UEFA backed this call completely and it was a brave call from an exceptional AR. For those newish to officiating in the last 5-10 years, this call really was a milestone in international officiating. FIFA had been teaching through the 90s for ARs to become more involved, and it was slowly happening. But this was the first time I ever saw a massive, game-changing call made from the AR in dynamic, on-the-ball play (rather than violent conduct unseen). Nowadays, this sort of intervention from ARs is much more common. So for that alone, it's more likely to be awarded. As far as the instructions related to deliberate handling, I'm not sure they've evolved all that much. We've had several papers here within USSF, but deliberate handling has always been deliberate handling for the last decade at the international level. Don't think the instructions relative to Law XII would affect the way this call is interpreted at the FIFA-level.

    On related notes, Hugh Dallas was exemplary as a fourth official here. He was down, protecting the AR, before Benko (the CR) even got over there. I don't fault Benko too much here and actually think the three of them worked very well together. Dallas could afford to be the "bad cop" and used his position on the touch line to intervene. Benko knew what Sramka was going to tell him when he got called over and he needed to be measured, deliberate and unflappable. Racing over to intercept the dissenters would have only raised the temperature of an extremely volatile situation. Dallas did his job, Sramka did his and Benko oversaw it all. Given the circumstances, very-well handled all told. That said, the manhandling by all the Portuguese players would, I hope, not go over as easily now. Benko had to pick his spot and he did caution one player before the penalty (which you don't see) and sent off Gomes after the goal. Could he have sent 5-6 players? Sure. But what would it get you in a situation like this? UEFA did intervene after-the-fact, as Kebbie alluded to in his original post. Unfortunately, this wouldn't be the last instance of this generation of Portuguese players behaving badly on the world stage, as Pinto and others didn't exactly cover themselves in glory upon their 2002 exit either.
     
  3. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    That's a handball. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
     
  4. BlueNosedRef

    BlueNosedRef Member

    Sep 5, 2011
    It's a penalty and a red, but I think it's anything but "stonewall". The initial position of the player's hands look natural enough to me, but the camera angle from the touch line shows the Portuguese defender bringing his hand out to meet the ball just as it is struck; this is what makes this a penalty for me. Had he moved his hand in the opposite direction I would have not given it.

    (Or, if he simply held it still I would have to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he could not react in time. I could not simply assume that, because his arm isn't tucked behind his back, that he must have placed where he did deliberately.)

    I think that it definitely would be given today, every time, provided a professional AR is patrolling the touch line.
     
  5. soccerman771

    soccerman771 Member

    Jul 16, 2011
    Dallas, Texas area
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with the above three assessments. Handling - no question about it regardless of the implications. I looked at a match summary on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2000_knockout_stage#Portugal_vs_France

    No card for the handling, but Gomes got a 7 month ban for shoving the ref after the match. Why no card for the deliberate handling in the box? I guess it's not DOGSO-H (or is it?), but was it a tactical foul and a yellow? There was a yellow given in the 116th, but I can't find an official match report.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not red because you can't be certain it's going on net (in fact, the irony is it probably wasn't--I think someone pieced together the evidence back then to show it would have hit the post). And the argument for yellow is tricky, too. In the last World Cup, apparently it would have been a yellow as all handling in the area was treated as such. But the standard is supposed to be tactical handling foul that stops an attacking opportunity. In this case, you can't even be sure the ball was going to stay in play so it's hard to argue an attacking opportunity was prevented. Could you get away with giving one? Sure. But I don't think it's mandated.

    More to the point, think practically. Look at the protests over this call. Then add in the fact that there's about a 90% chance the game is going to be over with the penalty kick. And, if the game isn't over, you have 3 minutes to play. Xavier doesn't already have a yellow and this one is, quite clearly, a judgment call. What effect is a yellow going to have on the game here? What does it get you? As the whole video should so, you've got bigger fish to fry. Whether it could be justified technically or not, there is no good practical reason to book Xavier for this.
     
  7. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    Certainly a handling offense under today's guidelines. In my opinion (and I would assume one reflected by UEFA at the time and certainly by some of the respondents already), I think it was a handling offense back then. I think this is one of those "I'll leave my arm out there and act like I couldn't move it, and then claim innocence" situations.

    Like the comments about Dallas as the 4th. Though somewhat ironic that this handling, in a match that Dallas was working (not his call, but obviously he was part of the team), would be called, and yet Dallas blew the chance to call it against Torsten Frings in the 2002 WC quarterfinal between the US and Germany in what was a far more obvious and blatant case of DOGSO-H that would have turned the match and possibly sent the US into the semifinals...

    Maybe I'm still a bit hung up on that... ;)
     
  8. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What is the argument? Clear handling and a clear red card. It's an easy decision, but a brave one as well.

    What should be more discussed is the absolute disgraceful behavior by the Portoguese before and after the penalty. I saw at least three instances of referee assault. There probably was at least 5 instances of abusive language. Just out of control.

    The reaction by the Vitor Baia gives it away. He knew Xavier handled as he raised his arms in the air saying "nothing to see here." The Portoguese were more mad that they were caught then anything else. They thought they got away with it.
     
  9. BatatasFritas

    BatatasFritas Member+

    Nov 29, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    FC Porto
    I remember this game. What a heart breaker for the Portuguese. It was a penalty, clear handball on the replay. I can't imagine this was an easy call for the ref. Had it been a french defender with the hand ball so late in the game, I highly doubt the ref would call a handball. The Portuguese behaved badly but from where most of the players were on the field, it would be hard to notice the clear handball and emotions were running very high.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because Slovakians hate Portugal but not France?!

    This, in a nutshell, encompasses almost everything that is wrong about our game.

    Because emotions were high and they didn't notice the actual infringement, you implicitly justify their bad behavior. That's completely and totally unacceptable. The problem is, a lot of people around our sport agree with you.
     
  11. BatatasFritas

    BatatasFritas Member+

    Nov 29, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Yes, Slovakians hate Portugal..... :rolleyes: I was implying that UEFA would have a harder time making that call vs France. Portugal wasn't a big team at that time. France would be a more profitable finalist. Today, i don't believe in this statement.

    I did not justify any bad behavior, just stating what I thought was going on in the Portuguese players heads.

    Wow, I even received a couple of PMs regarding my statements. I thought there would be more mature posters.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So now you're implying that the referees are solely there to do the bidding of the tournament organizers and help arrange the most profitable matchup. This is not progress.

    With respect, you did justify the behavior. "The Portuguese behaved badly but..." Everything after that word is a justification. You are saying you understood why they did what they did. Look, I played in some competitions where I knew (forget just thinking it) our team got screwed and I wasn't happy. I understand the visceral reaction and human emotion. But there's absolutely no justification for putting hands on the referee like they did. There's no justification for prolonged visual and verbal dissent that delays the restart of the game.

    When behavior like what was seen in EURO 2000 gets justified, you end up with behavior like this (start of video & at 2:18), where in addition to what you see, Pinto punched the referee in the stomach:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHR0IFyGD_Y"]2002 World Cup SOUTH KOREA v PORTUGAL - YouTube[/ame]

    and this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIiaXWq1KHY"]Player steals referees red card - YouTube[/ame]

    Implying that the posters here are immature is also probably not a way to win people over.
     
  13. BatatasFritas

    BatatasFritas Member+

    Nov 29, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Look, I can see by your username that you are a ref. Not knocking on all refs but it's pretty evident that in the past, there have been lots of questionable decisions against "lower teams". It isn't progress but things are looking better (Thank God). The last big incident was the famous "Hand of Frog" by Henry who played for France.

    How was any of Portugal's behavior justified? All players involved were punished. Not sure why you bring up unrelated scenario's to Xavier's handball to try to prove your point. We all know they behaved badly. No one is denying that. I was simply explaining why they might have done it. Not sure what is wrong with sharing my opinion.

    Yes, I am implying that the posters who sent me PMs are immature. You implied that I said posters are immature which is false.
     
  14. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    The incidents shown here were not questionable at all. They were clear and obvious decisions and yet you are somehow implying/justifying that the Portuguese had a right to behave and make contact with the referee like that.

    Referee's make mistakes and poor decisions against teams regardless of "size." Just look at the 2002 World Cup where there were inexplicable decisions against soccer powerhouses like Spain and Italy. Yeah, Ireland got screwed, but it had nothing to do with France being a bigger football nation. The refs just got the call wrong.
     
  15. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    MassachusettsRef, thank you so much for the very thorough response!

    Sorry about the thread duplication, btw, not sure how the 2008 discussion slipped under my own radar, I usually have a good memory when it comes to my posting history.

    Glad to see that "retro" topics like that still attract attention, though...

    I agree with you that this call likely brought about certain paradigm shifts and ARs are now encouraged to be proactive in their approach to the game. Good point regarding the notion of “deliberate handling”, I also under the impression that the rules tend to be strictly enforced in this domain, especially in matches between national teams.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7_mvAtUDHE"]Brazil scores late penalty for 4 3 win over Egypt and a very questionable RED Card !!! - YouTube[/ame]

    Yes, I was impressed that Benko never lost his cool and was quite calm and collected in his approach while his decision was being contested (though the players wanted to vent their frustration on Sramka rather than on the main official).
    I am guessing that the Portuguese frustration mainly stemmed from the fact that they almost got away with it – Benko initially awarded a corner and if the French had been really quick to take it, then the whole situation (probably) wouldn’t have occurred. The French footballers were not too vociferous in staking a claim for a penalty.
    As for the Portuguese players, I am not sure whether it’s a cultural quirk, but they frequently seem to get into officials’ personal space and have no compunctions about touching them.
    I am glad that the “golden goal” and “silver goal” rules were eventually scrapped, as they placed a huge burden on the shoulders of match officials (i.e. any penalty decision would be very bitterly contested) and changed the temperature of certain games.
    I disagree that “big nations” are favoured over “small ones” – there are quite a few counterexamples that I can think of. For instance, countries like Slovenia and Portugal arguably benefited from certain referee decisions in their matches vs. “big guns” like Russia (World Cup 2010 playoffs) and England (Euro 2004).

    BlueNosedRef, I concur, it may have actually been more clumsy than deliberate (Xavier was not very experienced at international level), but of course he stretched out his arm in such a way that it was bound to be quite suspicious.

    I agree that it’s technically a caution or possibly a red card, but as mentioned by MassachusettsRef, awarding a yellow/red card for the handball was probably the least of the referee’s concerns and he refrained from issuing a card, as this would have only inflamed the situation even further (and the French players only wanted the game to proceed with a penalty kick, they didn’t care about the yellow or red card).
    vetshak, thanks for bringing up the USA vs. Germany match, I would say that it was indeed a rather similar infraction (and the ball was definitely going in).

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLtT0imwdCQ"]2002 World Cup Quarter Finals: Germany vs United States - YouTube[/ame]

    RedStar91 and VicVR6, agreed, the Portuguese definitely went overboard when it came to their protests (to put it mildly). I felt that it was not nice and also illogical how players like Figo complained that “we are a small country, they don’t want us in the final” given that Portugal were selected as hosts for the 2004 edition of the tournament and were obviously respected by the other UEFA associations.

    Thank you to all the others who commented, appreciate the feedback!
     
  16. BatatasFritas

    BatatasFritas Member+

    Nov 29, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Figo could/should of done better in that situation. I thought it was very disrespectful when he threw his jersey down after all the commotion and walked off the field even before the PK. IMO, that must of of given our goalie a lot of confidence to stop the penalty vs Zidane after all the BS.
     
  17. BatatasFritas

    BatatasFritas Member+

    Nov 29, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Not justifying the Portuguese players behavior at all.
     
  18. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    Good point, though if it's any consolation, Zidane was merciless when it came to penalty kicks, so even with a very confident Ricardo in net (from a hypothetical standpoint), a goal would have most likely been scored. I was rooting for Portugal at the time, as they played beautiful football and were really entertaining. In any case, the Portuguese "Golden Generation" is still fondly remembered.
    Figo's reaction was disrespectful, but at least he wasn't violent..
     
  19. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    I forgot to mention in my first post on this thread, I was also amused when Figo pulled his jersey off to show the necklace he was not supposed to be wearing...
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And there have been lots of questionable decisions against bigger teams. Mistakes happen, even at the highest levels. I'm a ref and so are 90%+ of the posters here. None of the current posters are active FIFAs, to my knowledge, but there are former FIFAs that post and current FIFAs that lurk here. It's insulting to say their work at the top levels is rigged. It's insulting to say Sramka would have made a different call had it been at the other end of the pitch.

    As I said, everything after your "but" is a justification. You admitted you were trying to explain what was going on in their heads and were rationalizing it. There is no rationalization for putting your hands on the referee in an aggressive manner. The fact that such behavior can occur means that, in some form, it's considered acceptable--efforts to understand it further that problem.

    But that's not entirely true. The worst transgressors, in the eyes of UEFA, were punished (Xavier, Gomes and Bento) with bans. If you watch that video, nearly the entire team could have been sanctioned for their behavior. One might even make an argument that the team should have been punished, with having to play EURO 04 or WC 02 qualifying matches at neutral sites or behind closed doors.

    I think my point flew over your head, to be frank. My point is that the behavior at the end of EURO 2000, when "explained" or "understood" by fans and others in the culture, does not get altered and leads to the scenes that we saw in WC2002 and WYC2007. Do you think the Portuguese players said, "wow, what we did at the end of EURO 2000 was embarrassing and unacceptable and we'll never do it again?" Or did they see WC2002 as another situation where they were "getting screwed" and it was okay to lash out at the referees because their previous behavior (aside from 3 suspensions) was not punished heavily? I think the evidence speaks for itself. If you don't see the connection between these three situations on the international stage, I don't know how I can change your mind.

    Not to belabor the issue, but the point is that I don't think anyone here cares why they might have done it. There is no excuse and the culture needs to change to a point where there truly is no excuse and no attempt to explain such behavior. It's not a human nature issue, either; we had comparisons to international rugby on this board a few weeks ago and the two sports are night-and-day. Such behavior would never happen in rugby and it shouldn't happen in soccer.

    And nothing is wrong with sharing your opinion. But you shouldn't expect it to be agreed with or to go unchallenged.

    Well, without knowing who sent you PMs, my assumption was that they are regular posters here. Ergo, you would be implying certain posters in this forum were immature. If I'm wrong, and the people who PMed you don't regularly contribute on this board, then I apologize for putting words in your mouth.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, Trezegut immediately appeals for it and he was really the only French player in position to see. Also, it's off-camera, but I believe Sramka immediately signaled or called Benko over, because Baia rushes over to dissent with Sramka before any decision is indicated from Benko. So I don't think the possibility of France taking a quick corner existed (Sramka would have prevented it) and I don't believe, based on how quickly Baia was off his line, that Portugal thought they got away with it. I think it's much more likely that, given the angle of play, very few people other than Trezegut, Xavier and Sramka knew it was a foul and they were protesting the decision itself (EDIT: Witford and Costa probably saw it cleanly, too).

    That was part of my point above and one of the reasons I tried to illustrate the "evolution" of their behavior at the top level. To be fair, though, while I think Portugal has been the most habitual high-profile offender, there are plenty of other national sides and federations that have engaged in unsavory and unacceptable behavior.

    To clarify my position a little. IF I thought this was a DOGSO situation, I would have given the red no matter what. My point about inflaming the situation only relates to the yellow card, which is a judgment call and certainly not mandatory in any regard.

    Since we're re-legislating stuff, it's worth noting that the majority opinion here among referees at the time was that Dallas got this call right (and was backed, if I recall, by USSF). There are plenty of people who think Xavier deliberately handled and Fring's did not--I'm one of them.
     
  22. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    MassachusettsRef, you need to relax dude. As a ref, you clearly do not like the way Portuguese players behave towards referees, because you're bias against Portugal is ridiculous. Should've played WC qualifying and Euro 2004 behind closed doors? What are you even talking about? What does the behavior of players have to do with the fans?

    "So now you're implying that the referees are solely there to do the bidding of the tournament organizers and help arrange the most profitable matchup. This is not progress."

    He never said that was their SOLE duty, but you're off your rocker if you don't believe that many referees do such a thing.
     
  23. BatatasFritas

    BatatasFritas Member+

    Nov 29, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    FC Porto
    MassachusettsRef - I read your posts, I can appreciate a good civil debate. Portuguese behaved badly in the tournaments mentioned but that does not justify in any way making Portugal go through qualifying for Euro 2004 which they hosted with no issues aside from some Ukrainian citizen committing murder in a robbery that wasn't even soccer related.

    The players that behaved badly were punished. UEFA did not seem to think that the others that you think also behaved badly should be punished and the case was fairly rested. We had a few hot heads in our teams in those tournaments but from the last few tournaments, there have been no issues. It's not a culture thing, Portuguese people are pretty calm peaceful folks. We just had a few bad apples. The Country in bankrupt and there have been no violent clashes like you see in Greece for example.
     
  24. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    I've always seen it as us being generally calm people. If we feel, however, that we've been disrespected or dealt with unfairly, we react pretty strongly
     

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