ABC and Nats games

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by Paul. A, Jun 15, 2003.

  1. Paul. A

    Paul. A Member

    Mar 16, 1999
    Wales, UK
    Could someone update me on ABC and if they plan on showing Men's National Team games again? Thanks!!!
     
  2. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    I'm sure once qualifying rolls around, they will. No need to show meaningless friendlies that cost the USSF a lot of money to put on.

    Sachin
     
  3. dcajedi

    dcajedi Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Philadelphia
    Actually, there aren't going to be any USNT games on ABC until the 2006 World Cup, as reported by the Sports Business Journal a few months ago.

    Why, you ask?

    Because IMG Media/the USSF asked Disney to incur a bit of the "risk" involved with games.

    That was that, as far as I know.
     
  4. pething101

    pething101 Member

    Jul 31, 2001
    Smyrna, Ga
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And as soon as ABC's contract is up with the NHL, you will never see the NHL on ABC again.
     
  5. geordienation

    geordienation Moderator

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC

    I refer you to the difference between "time buy" and "contract already in place."
     
  6. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    I wouldn't be in too big of a hurry to get ABC to broadcast Nats games. The last four matches featuring the national team and broadcast on ABC were all losses.
     
  7. da_cfo

    da_cfo New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    San Francisco CA
    More like the following:

    Cost of 2 hours of TV time on ESPN/ESPN2, which
    goes to 85+ million homes: $200000

    Cost of 2 hours of TV time on ABC, which goes
    to 107 million homes, but only about 95 million homes will get soccer due to pre-emptions: $250000.

    Why bother paying the extra $50000 for most friendlies, which can't get more than an 0.5 rating anyway?
     
  8. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The NHL and MLS get comparable ratings on cable. On ABC, especially in prime time, the NHL does better. Even though this Stanley Cup Finals on ABC averaged a 2.9, MLS couldn't even dream of getting those numbers

    2002 NHL Ratings on ABC:

    NHL ON ABC-SATURDAY....1/05/02..1.3..1,357,000
    NHL ALL-STAR GAME......2/02/02..1.8..1,863,000
    NHL ON ABC-SATURDAY....3/09/02..1.3..1,373,000
    NHL ON ABC-SATURDAY....3/17/02..1.2..1,251,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....4/20/02..1.1..1,205,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....4/27/02..1.5..1,538,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....5/04/02..1.5..1,562,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....5/11/02..1.5..1,589,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....5/18/02..1.9..2,034,000
    STANLEY CUP FINAL-GM3..6/08/02..3.3..3,478,000
    STANLEY CUP FINAL-GM4..6/10/02..3.5..3,704,000
    STANLEY CUP FINAL-GM5..6/13/02..4.2..4,470,000


    And, from this season:


    NHL ON ABC.............01/11/03...1.2...1,305,000
    NHL ALL-STAR GAME......02/02/03...1.7...1,864,000
    NHL ON ABC.............02/08/03...1.3...1,381,000
    NHL ON ABC.............03/15/03...1.0...1,041,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....04/12/03...1.1...1,186,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....04/19/03...1.2...1,304,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....04/26/03...1.1...1,136,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....05/03/03...1.5...1,559,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....05/10/03...1.6...1,734,000
    NHL PLAYOFFS ON ABC....05/17/03...1.0...1,078,000
    STANLEY CUP FINAL-GM3..05/31/03...2.0...2,167,000


    An MLS match in prime time on ABC would likely make the Stanley Cup Finals look like the last episode of M*A*S*H, ratings-wise.

    And as for friendlies not getting better than a .5:


    NATIONAL TEAM VS ECUADOR...3/10/02...1.3..1,335,000
    NATIONAL TEAM VS URUGUAY...5/12/02...0.8....858,000
    NATIONAL TEAM VS HOLLAND...5/19/02...0.8....872,000
     
  9. da_cfo

    da_cfo New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    San Francisco CA
    After you throw out all the viewers above the age of 55, all those viewers who don't have cable/satellite, etc. that advertisers don't want anything to do with, you'll be down to about an 0.5.

    Network broadcast TV still get the higher ratings compared to cable/satellite because there are still people (about 20% of the US) who don't have pay TV. Advertisers, especially those who target particular niches, usually don't want to pay for these eyeballs.
     
  10. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget to throw out left-handed people, people with more than two cats, and people who suffer from gout.

    So you're saying that a substantial portion of the estimated audience for Nats' games is demographically undesirable? Please show me some studies to back that up. I've got ESPN's audience profiles for MLS, I'm curious as to why they'd be substantially off from Nats watchers. I'd be curious as to why the TV audience for Nats games would be substantially different from the in-stadium audience.

    And I'm really curious why, when looking at broadcast ratings, you'd throw out people who don't have cable or satellite. They're watching, aren't they?

    That isn't what you said. Anything else you'd care to get wrong before I go to work?
     
  11. da_cfo

    da_cfo New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    San Francisco CA
    You should know better than this.

    The decision to not pay or not pay the extra money for time on ABC rather than ESPN isn't driven by the bigger ratings on ABC, which are the result of viewers without cable/satellite TV who are tuning in.

    Viewers without pay TV have limited choices of what they can watch. Sponsors know this. They also know that this group tends to be over 55 or they fall below the minimum desired income level so they have little discretionary income.

    Sponsors for soccer telecasts only pay for a subset of the audience, not the entire audience.

    Since sponsors for soccer are going after a niche, targeted audience (i.e. adults 54 and under, perferably 18-35, with a minimum level of income, which generally means the targeted audience has pay cable/satellite TV), you want to deliver as much of that targeted audience as possible at the minimum cost.

    A 1.0 on ABC means nothing to your sponsors if your sponsors are not willing to pay for viewers above 55, viewers who don't have pay cable/satellite TV, and viewers below a certain income level.

    ESPN and ESPN2, being cable/satellite pay TV channels, delivers the targeted audience for US soccer to sponsors more efficiently at 20% less cost than ABC, without the pre-emption headaches that plagued US Soccer telecasts in the past (i.e. telethons, infomercials, etc.)

    US Soccer TV properties are no longer in "growth" mode (the growth phase ended in 1998). It has been a mature product for the last 5 years.

    Mature products are run for maximum cash generation at minimum cost.
     
  12. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And of course the other main difference between Hockey games and Soccer games on TV is the amount of commercial time that can be sold.
     
  13. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two points:

    - First, I'm in no hurry for the USMNT or MLS to have games on ABC because then local affiliates will be free (as they've done many times before) to pre-empt those broadcasts. ESPN/2 can't be pre-empted. Obviously, we sometimes run into the previous live sports event running past its alloted time (just as soccer sometimes does). But I'd rather deal with that relatively rare occurence than a local affiliate deciding they'd rather show fly fishing than soccer (for example, the Raleigh-Durham ABC affiliate decided not to show the WC Final live).

    - Second, I assume this whole broadcast vs. cable/satellite debate will become far less relevant by 2006, right? I mean, isn't that the deadline by which Congress said that all broadcast stations must switch from analog to digital broadcasts? That'll mean that anyone who wishes to watch TV in this country will need to have a digital system (cable, sat TV, a digital-ready TV or some sort of digital converter for their old TV). Won't that mean that, in essence, the substantial audience advantage that the braodcast networks have today will be substantially diminished? I mean, in an all-digital world, just how many more people will be able to see ABC than espn2 ... especially by 2006?
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still trying to understand how these two statements aren't contradictory:

    Which I read as "You get more people on ABC, but it's an extra $50,000, so why do it?";

    And

    Which I read as "They don't even look at it in those terms."

    What am I missing now?
     
  15. QPR Kevin H

    QPR Kevin H BigSoccer Supporter

    May 23, 2001
    Silver Spring, MD
    Club:
    Queens Park Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    No more Jack and Ty: Priceless
     
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because we all know that soccer and re-runs of Matlock vie for senior citizens' attention.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Aren't ratings for ESPN based on the number of households that can get it?

    Plus, are there really that many people who can't get ESPN??? I mean, that they'd make Ollie's ".5" true even tho Kenn provided those .8 games? That would imply that 37.5% of US households with TVs can't get ESPN, even if Ollie is right and I'm wrong about how ratings are determined.

    Ollie, you're the TV expert, but I'm baffled.
     
  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US Television Households, April 2003: 106,641,910 (so sayeth Nielsen)

    ESPN subscribers as of February 28, 2003:86,700,000 (so sayeth Cable Program Investor magazine)

    Percentage of US TV Households who get ESPN: 81.3%

    Basic cable customers as of May 2003: 71,897,250
    Percent penetration: 67.4%

    You think people without cable are watching soccer? Given what we know about soccer's demographics?

    DirectTV supposedly has more than 11 million subscribers while Dish Network supposedly has 8.2 million, with plans to add another million this year.
    That's about 20 million, counting everybody else, and we don't know how many people have both (I'm not sure if in some areas you still have to keep your cable to get local channels or not).

    But it would be 80-90 million people with either cable or satellite or both, probably about 85% of country. But the rest of those people are so soccer-crazy that they run to soccer when it's on ABC, enough to jack up the ratings from .5 to .8?

    Oh, but wait, they're mostly 55+ or left-handed or have scurvy, not desirable at all. Even though no more than a third of ESPN's MLS audience is 55+. I'm sure the Nats skew much, much older.
     
  19. Warren Van Orden

    Feb 29, 2000
    Richmond CA
    I think you missed Oliver's point.

    If a household does not have cable or dish, doesn't it seem likely that they have less money, or are less prone to purchasing what they don't need. Less prone than those who have paid for hundreds of TV channels?

    And if a household has a choice of maybe six channels when a soccer match is on, doesn't it seem more likely that they might watch, since they don't have 150 other channels to choose from?

    Advertisers don't pay for random viewers, they pay for those they believe will fall for their advertising.
     
  20. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I didn't miss his point. He overstated the extent of his point. I fail to see how a significant portion of those who watch soccer on television would fall into the group of people who don't have cable or satellite, especially a big enough portion to substantially effect the ratings. Especially since abut 80-85% of the country has cable or satellite.

    Of course, advertisers target demographics. Soccer has those demographics.

    He just got the ratings wrong. Nats friendlies do better than a .5.
     
  21. da_cfo

    da_cfo New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    San Francisco CA
    ABC had EXCLUSIVITY on its USMNT telecasts, while ESPN/ESPN2 usually had to share its USMNT telecasts with Telemundo.

    USMNT friendlies and qualifiers only get about an 0.5 rating on ESPN/ESPN2, but could get 0.8-1 on ABC (due to exclusivity).

    The English-speaking crossover audience (however small) that watch Telemundo instead of ESPN/ESPN2 fall through the cracks.

    Bottom line: USSF/TWI now only use ESPN/ESPN2 and Telemundo and they no longer use ABC (Dan Flynn mentioned the plan during the 2002 USSF AGM in San Francisco).

    Why pay the extra $50000 per telecast when the sponsors aren't willing to pay a premium for being on ABC to cover the extra cost?
     
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One other friendly:

    3/3/01 vs. Brazil at the Rose Bowl:
    1.3 rating, 1,278,000 TVHH.
     

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