Hi, First time long time. Brief background on me: love soccer, play in my local rec league and follow the local heroes (Rapids). Enjoy going to the games and am tired of hearing the naysayers (including several teammates). I think that MLS' main plan right now seems to be focusing on getting the soccer fans to respect their product and not worry so much about getting the non-fans to convert. I assume that all US-based fans of soccer want a premier, viable league. Which leads me to my question(s)... How exactly can MLS prove itself to be at a "premier"level of play? I'm talking about a fairly objective measure of performance, not subjectives like aesthetics or "I know what I see" kind of stuff. ESPN does a top-25 clubs rankings and I can't find out how they measure the points. I'd like to imagine that I'm the Colorado Rapids and I want to establish myself as the best club in the world. What steps do I need to take (tournaments to enter, championships to win, etc.) in order to do that? With the men's team it's easy to follow, international friendlies, copas, world cup qualifying,etc. I look forward to learning. Thanks in advance for your thoughtful and courteous responses.
Well, I think at present the only way is to win the Concacaf Champions Cup (the Champions League of Concacaf) which, if it all works out which is a big if, will get you to the World Club Championship at some point (currently scheduled for 2005 if I'm not mistaken), at which point you'll be able to go up against the European Champion, the Latin American Champion and some other big clubs. Otherwise, I think you're sh$t out of luck. But I could be wrong.
Flashman, Thanks for that info. So the regional federations host cups that all MLS teams are eligible to enter? Or do they only invite a selected list (and how would an MLS team make that cut)? Also, the FIFA Club World Championship looks like it will take 6 teams. How are those chosen? In looking at the history of the CONCACAF Champions League it appears that MLS has represented fairly well. With two of the last six champions a semifinalist this year and the Quakes giving the eventual champs a good run. Another question, what would MLS/clubs have to achieve to convince US soccer fans that MLS is "quality soccer"?
Nice one! The thing is that Spencer always seems to get a head on the ball. Like Spud Webb from the NBA! I do take your point about relying on "aging European players" as well, but that doesn't really help in my quest to find an objective measure of how good MLS soccer really is. I feel like there's too much "soccer snobbery" as well as too much "blind support" and I'm looking for a real way for MLS to prove its salt, especially to the local naysayers that seem hell bent to disrespect MLS. It's nice to see that FIFA is recognizing the quality on a club level in opening up the World Club Cup to each of the 6 confederations. Are there other club competitions where MLS teams can compete besides the CONCACAF stuff?
Each confederation has its own way of choosing a champion. in CONCACAF (Northern & Central America, plus Caribbean) this is done thorugh the CONCACAF Champion's Cup. I think each national association sets the rules for who goes. In our case it's the MLS Cup winner and the US Open Cup winner (San Jose and Chicago, most recently). In years past there were more teams from each country, but they scaled it back this year to just 2 from the US. I'm not sure how the participants from other countries are picked. Typically the US gets creamed in this competition because there wasn't any reward in winning it, and it's during our off-season so the teams and players aren't in their best form. But with the new Club World Championship tournament announced, perhaps next year they will try harder...
So, if I'm understanding this correctly... The only club competition which would give an objective (read on-field) measure of MLS team performance is the CONCACAF Champions' Cup? Do you know how ESPN calculates its Top 25 rankings? Would more friendlies against other clubs in South America/Europe help? For those Americans who love soccer but feel that MLS is sub-par in its product what would MLS need to do to convince them otherwise. Obviously some will never accept MLS, but what would it take? The '02 World Cup team had lots of MLS talent in the lineup. MLS teams have won the Champions' Cup in the past. The All-star game last year against Chivas should have shown people something. Is there nothing else that MLS' club teams can do to convince people of their quality?
Europe and South America has champion league as well and the ESPN ranking based on both dometic and champions league performance. Asia have AFC champions league also.
Lets talk about the league's apparent strategy, which may be at least one answer to your question. Slowly improve the quality of play in a fiscally responsible manner. Build soccer specific stadiums. Send good players to the Nats or sell them overseas (Howard, for example). But mostly, continue to exist as a fixture on the sports landscape. This is no small feat - when this process started, there were a lot of people (myself included) who hoped for the best but didn't give it 5 years. Remember Woddy Allen's dictum: 90% of life is just showing up. The same goes for sports leagues. Over time, through word-of-mouth and regular promotion channels, US fans will learn that this is a great form of entertainment. Soccer snobs may be overly concerned with the ranking of leagues - but by and large this is not something which registers on the minds of most sports fans and only a subset of people who like soccer. I think the theory is this: if you put an entertaining product on the field, do it in a quality and fun environment, and continue to do it year after year so you are not viewed as a fly-by-night operation, the rest of the issues raised will take care of themselves. Believe me, going into this week's game with Chicago, as a Galaxy fan I am a lot more concerned with who will play left back than I am with whether the "quality of play" matches La Liga. I think I am typical of most MLS fans, and that number is growing. So, sure, I want to see MLS teams do well in CONCACAF etc., and I am sure they will sooner or later, but day-to-day I am a lot more concerned with the fate of the team I support. Excuse the rambling. Hope that gives you some insight.
Since the "quality of play" is such a difficult term to define (some would be more interested in attractiveness, some more with skill, some with affectiveness), the number #1 way is to get stadiums of our own. Let me tell you, I watched a few Galaxy games in the pre-HDC era on TV. I followed the wins and losses of my team. I even threatened to go watch a few games in person, but it never happened (could never get anyone to go with me ). I am definately one of the newly converted. Then, when the HDC was built, I went and visited early on. Not only is HDC a great atmostphere for a game, but it feels like home. A PROFESSIONAL home for a soccer team. The whole place is dedicated and built for Soccer. And look at the stats! Look at the numbers the Galaxy pull in! Twice the amount of people that the Fire, Burn, and Smurfs have been pulling in. To compare, I've been to Spartan Stadium. Not to knock the passionate fans of SanJo, but Spartan feels like a Community College Gridiron Football stadium. The stands are old. Everything in the stadium is Football oriented, etc. I can tell you that the Burn next year will see a similar bump. People will be interested, because a stadium is a contract with the fans - WE WILL BE HERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, THIS IS NOT A FLY-BY-NIGHT ORGANIZATION. Then, interested people show up, see quality (which I definately think it is) soccer, and maybe stick around. Or maybe watch a few more games on TV. I really should spell check this, but hopefully you'll get the picture. Welcome!
dguck - I think you're barking up the wrong tree with hoping that MLS will prove it's worth on the field vs. teams from other countries. Even winning something like the World Club Cup will have little resonance and little media attention in the US, those who know about it but want to be detractors will call it an exhibition, and those who don't care won't start to care. Tradition still has to be built one fan and one game at a time. Well-executed, the process can be cumulative and compound on itself over a very long period of time.
It's good to see some thoughtful discussion going on here. So many threads degenerate into crapola that I was afraid this might turn into the same thing. Casper - I agree with you. Those who are "American soccer snobs" (or whatever other term you use) probably will never respect MLS. I was just hoping for something tangible to be able to use as a measuring stick other than "what I see on the field." Calexico77 - It's a bit of a chicken-egg thing though. Sure having a new stadium and better homefield atmosphere would be great. Me and 12000+ went to Invesco last night to see the Rapids stink up the joint and I can only imagine how much better that would have been in a 25,000 seat stadium. Certainly any fan that attended last night as a first-timer or potential "convert" would have looked at the 80% empty seats and had a much different perspective. It appears that the people/communities with the $$$ to finance SSS/teams aren't convinced of the upside yet. So do you all think that MLS is going about things the right way...building American talent, taking a long-term approach to the league, expanding in stable ways, etc?