A Ronaldo Question

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by MtP07, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. MtP07

    MtP07 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 3, 2005
    My more verve question of the week:

    This is a question I've wondered and have tried to figure out for myself but just can't come up with an answer.

    We've all seen how Ronaldo has been this season. For one game he'll be great (yesterday) and the next he'll be horrible (against Sunderland). Even up until the Sunderland match he was on a stretch of playing well himself and playing well with the team.

    So my question is, what gives? Why does Ronaldo revert back to poor form one game and play great the next? Is it something the other team is doing like a certain defensive style? Is it a mindset that he creates for himself that he wants to take a game over and he begins to not play well with the team? Or is it simply growing pains?
     
  2. Vermont Red

    Vermont Red Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you hit on the major points. For one, he is inconsistent, as you would expect given his age. In addition, some teams do try to take him away, double him on the outside in order to make someone else beat you. The good thing is that when Rooney is on, a team protecting the flanks is vulnerable in the middle.

    One big thing with Ronaldo is that it looks sometimes as if his teammates are not certain what he's going to do. I think its very difficult for players to adapt to a free-flowing style in which Ronaldo (and Rooney and Park) could all end up anywhere on the pitch. I think sometimes that Ronaldo runs himself into corners because he's on a different page from his teammates and he runs out of options.

    I think Ronaldo is getting better and better and I think the other players will get more comfortable with him, which will make him look even better. I don't think we'll have to wait long for a twenty goal season from Ronaldo.
     
  3. StrikerCW

    StrikerCW Member

    Jul 10, 2001
    Perth, WA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From the wing, really? :eek: I hope so, but I just can't see it.

    I think both of you in general got the points. He is still very young and is settling down. We can see he has the potential to be a great great player. He just needs consistancy. He has the skill right now. He is also developing his crossing and passing skills and they are getting better game by game IMO.

    The only thing Ronaldo needs right now is matches. With exerience (especially in big games, of which he has only been in a few for United, like the later portions of the CL) he will begin to settle down and know what to do with each situation that comes to him.

    Experience will tell him not to dribble himself into a hole and to look for teamates first, unless he has the opportunity to beat a man for a goal or some such. You all know.

    I think Ronaldo at his present time (to hijack the thread) will not be a player that will take us to the CL SF's or Final in the next 5 years, or probably ever. BUT he will be the player who wins us the match.
     
  4. yikchi

    yikchi Member

    Aug 11, 2004
    Garden State
    Ronaldo is definitely getting better and better. He just need to know how to play his role which is provide width and put in decent crosses for our strikers and cut down his dribbling and hold up the ball because that's not how we play.

    He definitely has the talent to play his role (i.e. the cross he put in for Rooney vs. Tottenham); however, the problem is he's too talented and thinks he can do much more than that (which is true).

    I think he prefers to play Rooney's role or just a more central role, but it is obvious he is not as good as Rooney at present time, so he is stuck to play out on the wings.

    If he is willing to sacrifice and play his role for the good of the team, I think he could potentially have as good as a career for us as (dare I say) Giggs.
     
  5. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    Uncharacteristically. I'll give you a 2sentence answer :D

    Teams that attack us will get destroyed by Ronaldo. Teams that bunker down and give him no space to attack will see him revert to type.
     
  6. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    When we played 4-3-3 he was consistant. Switching from Wide right midfield, to wing forward, and back isnt the best thing for him.
     
  7. MtP07

    MtP07 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 3, 2005
    What?!?!? My more verve thread only gets 2 sentences from DS??? I'm hurt. ;) :p

    Ok. So in games where we are going up against a bunker defense, what do we do with Ronaldo. Do we try to get him to change his game up to play against the bunker? Do we just not play him at all?
     
  8. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    :)

    Howard suggests getting him to stay wide to create width, but Ronaldo is not a natural winger and his instinct is always to clog up the inside lanes when he reverts to type as he tries to affect play in such games so it's not so easy to get him to do what he's told. CM's that control play will help him not revert to type by helping us stretch teams with their positioning and passing that help Ronaldo do whatever he wants (as he does against teams that attack us)

    Amazing what a quality Central Midfield can do isn't it :) :(
     
  9. jammybastard

    jammybastard Member

    Oct 7, 2003
    Flyoverland
    last year I posted something to the effect that we have 2 Man U teams in 1.

    Team 1 runs the "Rooney" formation, where he is the playmaker.
    Team 2 runs the "Ronaldo" formation, where he is the playmaker.

    Both are very skilled and talented but they play two very different styles of football. Rooney is a team player, whereas Ronaldo is a bit more of a free agent. I think that has to do with their cultural backgrounds as much as temperments. EPL style game vs. Portugese/Spanish style game. Meat and potatoes vs. flair.

    Our game breaks down when both *teams* play at the same time. That's when the confusion hits and no-one seems to be playing together.
    You see wayward passes, shots taken when players are wide open, and scoring opportunities going unfinished.

    Last year was the year they should have sorted it out, and by and large they did. They told Ronaldo to stop the dribbling clinics, stay on his feet, and concentrate on playing the ball in to Ruud and Roon.
    So far it's been accomplished but with mixed results, as I don't think anyone can claim that Roon and Ronaldo have completely clicked.

    Once in awhile, like this past weekend, there are moments of brilliance where they hook up. No consistently though.
    I think Ronaldo runs into trouble when he drifts into the middle and tries to take on too many players. He's better when he stays outside, draws players to him, and serves it in.
     
  10. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    More than anything Ronaldo needs time. He's still developing his game and as such there are things he's going to develop that he doesn't yet have in his arsenal.

    I agree with the statement that he will rip up teams that attack us and will not do so good against teams who try to contain us. That's where a change of tactics needs to come in imo.

    Rooney sees the field much better than Ronaldo and when he drifts out to the left he can often pick out a pass to a teammate that Ronaldo wouldn't have. The added advantage of Ronaldo playing central w/ Rooney on the wing is Ronaldo's aerial presence and his ability to stretch teams that attempt to bunker. When Ronaldo's finishing gets to where it needs to be its going to be VERY hard to play a high line of defence against us when Ronaldo drifts inside. I feel that's what he must do to be effective against teams who bunker. Without Saha in the team, the only other player who will rise above defenders to win headers in a crowded box is Ronaldo. Ruud is clinical with headers, but he's not going to out jump any defender, Ronaldo's crosses would be useless if Ruud and Rooney are the targets when a team is bunkering.

    So, if a team isn't bunkering allow Ronaldo to do his thing, play mostly on the wing, but cut in at times like he is want to do. However, if a team is bunkering I'd rather see Ronaldo allowed to play off of Ruud (I don't know if others have noticed this but when Ronaldo starts off in the center he plays more for the team than when he takes the ball himself off the wing and into a shooting position, in a sense, and he's right, he feels like he's earned the chance to shoot) and be a free-agent. Rooney will still get into his positions in the center, but Ronaldo gets easily frustrated when he's faced with 2 players on him if as a team we aren't clicking. He seems to do better if we have other options going, but once it seems like everything isn't working, he tries to hard to be a hero.


    So I agree w/ DS. A quality CM will help Ronaldo because trust me, if we had someone who was a goal threat and a threat to unlock a defence with the runs of Park, Rooney and Ruud off the ball, there is no way, a team could just sit 2 guys on Ronaldo. I also can't wait to see the day when Ronaldo's off the ball runs get rewarded. He doesn't take off more than say 6 times a game, but you can bet that 5 of those times will be when Rooney or Giggs has the ball. He has no confidence that anyone other than Rooney and Giggs, perhaps Ruud will get him the ball when he makes a run.


    And finally, someone said that Ronaldo won't take us to a Final but rather he might just win it for us. I agree with that. As he gets better he'll be more consistent, but he'll never likely be our life-blood the way Rooney, Cantona and Scholes have been/will be, but Ronaldo's just got this *thing* where you feel he's on the verge of something rediculous. Its not cheeky like Rooney's chips or Figo's cross cum shot a few years ago, its more explosive and raw like Riquelme's run against Inter. You just have this feeling that in a particular game Ronaldo might just go off on someone and do something insanely good unlike Rooney who'll be constantly the reason we do well. I can't explain it other than to say Rooney might be our Jordan, but Ronaldo might be our Kobe - not as good, and certainly not as effective over the long term, but he might just get so hot that you need gloves to handle him. :D
     
  11. haven

    haven New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Your premise is flawed.

    Players have crap games all the time. Since the beginning of the season, when Ronaldo had lots of personal problems, he hasn't been more inconsistent than most players his age. But when Ronaldo has a bad game, suddenly he's somehow blameworthy. When Rooney, RVN, or Rio has a bad game, people seem to say "but they usually play so well . . . ."
     
  12. lynne

    lynne Member+

    Oct 11, 2003
    In the Sunderland game, 60th minute or so, Ronaldo backheels a ball to Neville who crosses the ball to RVN. The ball crosses about 1 foot in front of the goal, but RVN misses tapping it in (he's being held). The pbp guy says something about "RVN the great predator missing the ball, RVN who's scored 150 goals". Points out that he missed, but overall complimentary to RVN. In the 62nd minute, RVN passes to Rooney who squares to Ronaldo who shoots straight at the keeper. Comments? "Great ball from RVN to Rooney who unselfishly passes to Ronaldo." Ronaldo? According the the pbp guy, Ronaldo should have done better with his shot. Then he says something about, "but he was under pressure". Overall impression? Ronaldo just quite good enough.

    I don't really expect them to point out that Rooney should occasionally pass the ball to someone else who's in a better position. They don't. But I don't think that there's anyone who's coverage is a consistently negative as Ronaldo's.

    Anyway, put me down as someone who believes that ronaldo played more or less the same in the sunderland and the tottenham games. It's just in the sunderland game there were always 5 to 6 (seemed like 10!) defenders in the box so fast breaks didn't work. Crosses didn't work because neither RVN or Rooney is particularly good at receiving those. They had about 30 corners (I didn't check the number! Seemed like 50.) so you'd say that the midfield did their part to get the ball regularly into the box.

    The MUTV game is more balanced for commentary, btw. Less gushing about Rooney and more complimentary to Ronaldo. They also think that Ronaldo had a bad game, but did point out the places where Rooney should have passed.
     
  13. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I agree with you, but Ronaldo can play much better than he has at times this season and when he's not "ON" he tends to hurt us more than some players when they aren't "ON."

    I can completely sympathize with those who think Rooney doesn't get enough stick, cuz he doesn't. I don't feel the same about Rio and Rooney though.
     
  14. Mac_Howard

    Mac_Howard New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Mandurah, Perth, WA
    It wasn't just Ronaldo that was having a poor game against Sunderland but Rooney, Giggs and Park as well. They're all players that like to run with the ball but you don't get the room to do that with the bunker defences when you cut inside. I like to see wide men use the touchline against these defences (against any defence, in fact) much as in the first goal against Spurs. It's very difficult to defend once you turn the defenders like that, bunker defence or no.

    I notice that Ronaldo is more prepared to use the touchline on the left - he had an excellent game in last year's FA Cup Final taking Toure, I think it was, to the cleaners time after time. But he cuts in almost ever time from the right.

    I think he had a particularly bad time against Sunderland because his tricks early on just didn't come off and the crowd began to get at him. Everyone loves his tricks when they leave a defender stranded but when they don't come off they're seen as self-indulgent and the crowd begin to complain. He doesn't have Rooney's thick skin and he begins to try ever harder and the tension comes into his game. When that happens then things tend to go from bad to worse. I thought Alex should have brought him off for his own good as well as the team's.
     
  15. Mjordan23

    Mjordan23 New Member

    Dec 27, 2005
    That`s what you get when sticking Ronaldo to the rightwing. He`ll have som bad games (as the Benfica game). SAF should use Ronaldo in his best position (at least for us) as a leftwinger. That`s where he is most comfortable and that`s where we`ll get him to produce for us even if his not having the best of games.

    To me, Ronaldo plays with so much more confidence as LW than as RW. He`s less likely to give the ball away and plays a lot more with instict. RW seems to limit his game.
     
  16. MtP07

    MtP07 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 3, 2005
    I agree, he does tend to play better on the left. But he looks most dangerous when he can switch flanks. I would not want to limit him to just one side.
     
  17. Mjordan23

    Mjordan23 New Member

    Dec 27, 2005
    To me, switching flanks is unnecessary. It`s ok if both wings are struggling but otherwise just play them in they`re favourite position.

    Park = Rightwing
    Ronaldo = Left wing

    Flank switching may be effective in counterattacks at times but otherwise I think it`s overrated. Can`t see that it has a great effect on matches.
     
  18. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It works well when you have contrasting but equally effective wingers. Sometimes its a defensive ploy.
     

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