A reality check - 13 League titles - be careful wishing for change

Good post Rick B.

In that same vein of thought I think that Gen X'ers and us early Gen Y'ers (mid 70-s to mid 80's) are perhaps the last generation to appreciate History and its relevance to the present and the future.

Late Gen Y's & Gen Z's are oblivious to past as Life in that timeframe has always been rosy and prosperous. I.E. those who haven't experienced strife it cant deal with it when it happens.

But I digress. In short, this Arsene out campaign is ludicrous.

#knowyourhistory

 

i think your finger is only on an imaginary pulse on this one rick. i know plenty of pre-wenger fans, and oddly, they aren't all thinking as you suggest they are. in fact, i'd suggest that some of the disgruntlement might actually be with older fans who aren't quite so loyal to the arsene=arsenal attitude of some of the "newer" fans and therefore find it easier to speak their minds. i personally think the disgruntlement comes from a variety of sections of the support, and not easily compartmentalised.
now, most people realise after moving grounds that money would be tight, and tbh that and previous huge success has given arsene a hell of a lot of leeway that very few others may have gotten, but that leeway is coming to an end.
in the club's history how many managers have lasted 6 years without any kind of silverware? not a single one since chapman (george allison's time was interrupted by ww2) and only 2 prior to chapman. does cl qualification now equal a trophy? maybe it does. maybe that's acceptable in the circumstances. neill lasted 7 years on cup final appearances (1 win) and a 3rd in the league, but his time ran out too.
now, before you jump in, i haven't said it's time for wenger to go. i'm still seemingly with the majority that want arsene to change, but he really does need to do something soon. good will on past glories only goes so far.

 

More like the years 1997-2008. The past 3 seasons has been painful to watch; not only are we not competitive we are not even playing with as much flair and dominance as we have been under Vieira/Henry/Pires and co. It's hard to say that we have been any more entertaining to watch than Chelsea or Utd.

I don't support the "get rid of Arsene" rubbish too, but neither do I support the "Arsene is irreplaceable" sound of though too. But since there's still a mathematical possibility of us winning the title let us not talk about sacking Wenger until the season is over. At the very least Wenger has to get the team performing at their best for the rest of the season and convince me that they have a chance of winning the title next season.

 

It seems to me that the youth policy is now Arsene cutting off his nose to spite his face. Competition for spots and veteran leadership have value that he either doesn't see or refuses to acknowledge. There's a middle ground between being a buying club and refusing to strengthen a squad because it might interfere with player development.

 

I don't buy this. I see the look on Arsene's face when a screwup happens - he wants to win too badly to not reinforce the squad, and he's never hesitated to get rid of players not good enough. The money simply isn't there to buy new players, and Arsene's a good enough chap to be willing to take the blame for "not being willing to spend money", even though the money's not there.

 

I agree with both you and Rick B, yet this season is the most frustrating season I've ever seen while following any team other than the Pakistani Cricket Team (if you follow cricket, you'll understand what I mean).

We went down 3-0 to West Brom at home
We lost at home to Newcastle in a game we should have won by 4.
We blew a 2-0 lead to Spuds at home
We blew a 2-0 lead to Wigan
We gave up a 95th minute equalizer to Sunderland
We blew a 4-0 lead to Newcastle. 4-0!
We had a striker sent off for shooting wide
We gave up the most comical goal in the history of cup final goals. To Birmingham City!
We gave up a penalty in the 12th minute of injury time.
We blew a 3-1 lead away to Spuds

And that's just on defense.

This is just cause for incredible frustration - blowing one two goal lead is one thing, but we've blown several big leads, and it's to the point where it's flat out stupid. And Arsene needs to take the blame for this, because it's his job to hold the players accountable for these kinds of screwups. And it doesn't look like that's happened.

Do I think Arsene needs to go? I'm not crazy - the man's a miracle worker. But there needs to be some kind of accountability here - the screwups are getting worse, and there hasn't been any responsibility taken.

 

A story I stole from the Arsenal-mania forums: Ferguson showed up for pre-season training in the summer of 1995 with an envelope. United had just won their first league title in 25 years. He told his squad that in the envelope were the names of three players who he believed were content with just one league title. These players would be sold in the coming weeks. The only way to avoid this fate was to prove him wrong in pre-season by training like men possessed.

We all know the rest of the story ...

If we win nothing this season, will Wenger be doing the same thing for our squad in pre-season? Tell the ones that have been dragging us down that they are on the verge of getting sold?

 

Yes, Rick is being selective in what facts he's posted. I think it's also notable that the league has changed considerably when you factor in the financial changes with ownerships and other significant changes in which Arsene has not demonstrated that he can win trophies in the current climate. I'm another fan who hasn't said Wenger out but think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that all old fans feel the way he does and to ignore some pretty damning evidence on the other side. There are many positives associated with Wenger but the negatives are accumulating season by season.

 

+1 - Its so far beyond an 'old fan' v 'young fan' argument at this point. Its about what each supporter believes is the goal of the club. Some are happy with its current state and some want trophies. I dont Wenger out, I just want to address the massive, gaping maws in the team which have repeatedly destroyed our hopes of winning things. I want trophies, not just for having them, but because I know we COULD have them save for a few stupid and avoidable situations. Problem is, he hasnt addressed them in 5 years, hence the frustration. I think its less 'we hate Arsene' and more 'if he wont fix it, get someone who will.'

And I hate when people tell fellow supporters 'if you dont like it, go support X club.' Its probably the most childish statement Ive ever heard in sport. But thats just me.

 

This. I dont understand why people thought we would win anything this season, especially when it came down to crunch time in the league. We have capitulated at every turn for the last 6 years. Why would this year be any different?

 

Sure Rick, all lovely points.

Arsene is a victim of his own success. Our expectations are so high because of what he has done for the club and all of us.

This does not mean that we can't criticize the boss or even think its time for a change. The Cesc Fabregas era is going to end without a cup. Talents like that don't come along very often and I do believe le boss should have solidified the defense and got some help for Song in January but who knows if he was able? None of us know for sure, but I think its a fari question and IF there is cash, this was clearly a season to spend it on.

I concede that much had to be sacrificed in order to pay for a needed new stadium.

I don't buy that this team has a mental strength problem. This team is simply a bit short. Our one proven goal scorer is a bit of a sicknote (started only 14 games). The fullbacks love to get forward and put in terrible crosses to nobody. There is only one holding midfielder on the squad. Our best defender played two games this season. Fabmunia are pants.

This side is lovely on the counter, using any space so well. Nothing is better than 5 or 6 players combining well. We can produce fantastic one-twos and wear down many sides. Theo and Nasri improved a lot this year and Jack is the man. We are not that far away but if Cesc goes home and Nasri can't be resigned, serious cash will be needed to make up ground.

 

The standards and rewards for success are different now compared to where they were decades ago. I am not a plastic fan. I remember that pre-Wenger (even pre-Rioch) despite having Wrighty, Merson, Seaman and the back four things were a far cry from they are now.

Nonetheless, the game has obviously changed and success is becoming less cyclical. This is why there has been a top four emerging, since these clubs can command the resources year after year to compete. Whilst not every year will be a good one, we have the resources to at least compete on a regular basis. Speaking of the top four, I don't even get why people criticise, and those who only do are supporting clubs who hold no chance of breaking into it. England was always the anomaly in major European leagues, since success often was cyclical. Italy, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Germany and certainly Scotland have seldom ever had cyclical success.

 

8pts out of 18pts off promoted sides. There's your title challenge

 

Are you just parsing now or are you being serious?

so they lost to Wolves how many points did they take off the promoted sides? Let me help you out 12 pts. Again your point?

 

There is no point. lol. Carry on you're right.

 

I know you're not responding to me, but the point I'm making, and that others are trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be much in the way of accountability at the club.

On what do I base this conclusion? Because the same mistakes get made season after season, game after game. People get left unmarked on set pieces, balls in the box aren't properly dealt with, and half the time we look totally unfocused on offense.

 

You're wrong. Everything is as it should be at the Emirates. According to Rick B

 

Maybe it is because those who are rational and do know thing need to change, but don't moan and groan about are tired of the same people who when everything is going well are silent and hide. However when things go wrong, they come out. Then you have those who like to moan just for the sake of moaning.

They seem to think it is their right for Arsenal to win every type of championship every season.

These are called plastic fans and I would now like to take the time to direct you to this thread.

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1711525

 

That's one of the worse threads I can remember from this forum. If effect, it's lets get rid of the self professed fans that I don't agree with. It really says a lot that you don't want to talk with fans who disagree with you. Life is boring and you don't learn much if you're just talking with yourself.

 

Maybe if you had actually read the part and noticed the you would realize it was taking the piss out of people like yourself.

 

Im not sure I understand your response. I said I dont want him gone, I just wish he would address the areas we are lacking in that everyone, including Arsene himself, has said we need help at. Hes said multiple times our D has been lacking, our Gk situation is not good enough right now and that we need a better mentality and I fully agree. The sarcastic response attempting to paint me as some holier-than-thou clairvoyant is unnecessary. I know Im not Arsene, I merely wish he acted on his own concerns or at least told the supporters he tried.

And what does Arsenal v Barca have anything to do with this? Yes, I have them both listed as clubs I follow and......?