a question to gregoriak.how important was müller really for bayern and team germany..

621380 · Nov 29, 2004

you are a knowlege person in international football and german football....what is your meaning about gerd müüler and how much important was he really for bayern and the german national team from the mid 60s up to the 70s....you have postet the statistic of gerd müllers goal career in a other topic...thanks for this....gerd müller is my alltime favorite player and maybe iam bit biased , but i have checked his statistics of his career you had postet and i have found out some intrest facts...

gerd müller has played in 14 first division seasons for bayern 427 games of bayerns total 476 games...so he has not played 49 games (injured,red card,ect...)

in 427 games with müller bayern had a +point per season ratio of 63.4 %....in 49 games without müller bayern had a + point per season ratio of 45.9 %..63.4 is a high postive rate and 45.9 (is under 50%) is a negative rate..this confirm that team bayern without müller was only 1 of some good teams but not the dominant team in the german leaque...

bayern without müller: 17 wins,11 draws 21 losses...(45:53 points)

season 1975-1976....
bayern with müller in 22 games 30:14 points
bayern without müller in 12 games 10:14 points...

iam relativ sure this has cost bayern the german title...

season 1976-1977..
bayern with müller in 25 games 31:19 points..
bayern without müller in 9 games 6:12 points..(team bayern has scored only 5 goals in 9 games)

cloud have costet bayern the chance to win the german title and has affected bayerns elimination in the eurochampions cup (bayerns was titleholder and was eliminated without müller aagainst kiew)

season 1968-1969..
bayern with müller in 30 games 44:16 points..
bayern without müller in 4 games 2:6 points (no win)

the season 1969 is ugly.....in the first 16 games with müller bayern had only 1 loss and müller has scored 57%of bayerns total goals (20:35)..in game 17 müller got 1 red card in minute 53 and bayern lost the game 1:0...

do you remember how long gerd was suspended??? he has played not the next 4 leaque games , missed 3 national team games and he missed the first german cup game...this was a total of 8 games gerd has not played and without gerd ,bayern or the national team did not win 1 game (5 draws ,3 losses)...is that not surprising???? the first german cup game gerd has not played 1969was a homegame (0:0)..he has scored the gamewinner (1:0 win) rematch..bayern won the next cup game with 1:0..in the quarterfinals bayern
won 2:0 (2 müller goals)..in the semifinale bayern won 2:0 (2 müller goals)..in the final bayern won 2:1 (2 müller goals...gerd müller has scored 7 of bayerns 8 total goals german cup season 1969..this is a 87.5 % rate....

same year gerd had scored nearly all important qualifycation goals of team germany for the worldcup 1970....

pitt

Gregoriak · Nov 29, 2004

Re: a question to gregoriak.how important was müller really for bayern and team germa

Thanks. I think you already answered that question pretty well. The results you came up with prove that without his goals, Bayern wouldn`t have won anything (as Franz Beckenbauer once said). Same for Germany.

Too bad he got that red card in November 1968, mostly because he missed the West German tour of South America (with games against Brazil, Chile and Mexico). It is a pity that he was never playing in front of South American crowds.

621380 · Nov 29, 2004

Re: a question to gregoriak.how important was müller really for bayern and team germa

Gregoriak said:

Thanks. I think you already answered that question pretty well. The results you came up with prove that without his goals, Bayern wouldn`t have won anything (as Franz Beckenbauer once said). Same for Germany.

Too bad he got that red card in November 1968, mostly because he missed the West German tour of South America (with games against Brazil, Chile and Mexico). It is a pity that he was never playing in front of South American crowds.
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thanks for your meaning......maybe gerd after he got the red card he was suspended for 2 months or suspended the next 8 games, inclusive the southamerican tour games with team germany..unfortunately.......

here another example season 1970-1971

gladbach and bayern had the same point statistic 1 game left of this season..bayern had 1 goal more advantage..müller has not played the last 2 games, bayern lost the last game of the season 2:0 and gladbach won the title with 2 points more + 4 goals advantage..another game where bayern didnt win without müller...

second division season 1964-1965

..(.in year 1963-1964 bayern(without müller) was only the second best team in qualifycation games group south,southwest and was not good enough for the first division)...müller had refused to join the best german division team 1860 munich for the reason he believed to get more chances to play games with bayern (1860 munich had some great strikers)..so he choose to play for bayern in the second division 1964-1965..the first 10 games without müller bayern had 5 wins,3 draws and 2 losses...good but not good enough to be one of the 2 best teams in the south group..(only the 2 best teams of the south group had the chance to play the qualyfycation games)..the president of bayern wanted that müller has to play soon and bayern won the next 12 games with müller and was the best team in the south group after 30 games ...bayern played with 3 other teams the qualifycation games for the first division ..gerd müller has scored 6 goals in 6 qualiyvication games and bayern won the qualifyc. round with 9:3 points and joined the first german division 1965-1966...

bayern today knows how important müller was for bayern to be the club bayern is today...and beckenbauer knows it too....

in 427 first division games german leaque(14 seasons) for bayern,gerd has scored fantastic 38% of bayerns total goals in this games..he did it from age 20-21 up to age 33-34...

pitt

Gregoriak · Nov 30, 2004

Re: a question to gregoriak.how important was müller really for bayern and team germa

621380 said:

here another example season 1970-1971

gladbach and bayern had the same point statistic 1 game left of this season..bayern had 1 goal more advantage..müller has not played the last 2 games, bayern lost the last game of the season 2:0 and gladbach won the title with 2 points more + 4 goals advantage..another game where bayern didnt win without müller...
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That was the most annoying suspension ever. Bayern had been on a South American tour in January 1971, in one of the games Müller got a red card. It was just a friendly. Nobody expected any repercussions. But suddenly in May, the German FA decided that Müller should get suspended for two Bundesliga games because of that red card from a friendly in January in South America! A ridiculous ruling. Bayern didn`t only lose the Championship, Müller probably also lost his top goal scorer title to Lothar Kobluhn that year.

second division season 1964-1965

..(.in year 1963-1964 bayern(without müller) was only the second best team in qualifycation games group south,southwest and was not good enough for the first division)...müller had refused to join the best german division team 1860 munich for the reason he believed to get more chances to play games with bayern (1860 munich had some great strikers)..so he choose to play for bayern in the second division 1964-1965..the first 10 games without müller bayern had 5 wins,3 draws and 2 losses...good but not good enough to be one of the 2 best teams in the south group..(only the 2 best teams of the south group had the chance to play the qualyfycation games)..the president of bayern wanted that müller has to play soon and bayern won the next 12 games with müller and was the best team in the south group after 30 games ...bayern played with 3 other teams the qualifycation games for the first division ..gerd müller has scored 6 goals in 6 qualiyvication games and bayern won the qualifyc. round with 9:3 points and joined the first german division 1965-1966...
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Indeed. Though it must be added that not only Müller was missing in the first few matches, but also Beckenbauer.

621380 · Nov 30, 2004

Re: a question to gregoriak.how important was müller really for bayern and team germa

Gregoriak said:

That was the most annoying suspension ever. Bayern had been on a South American tour in January 1971, in one of the games Müller got a red card. It was just a friendly. Nobody expected any repercussions. But suddenly in May, the German FA decided that Müller should get suspended for two Bundesliga games because of that red card from a friendly in January in South America! A ridiculous ruling. Bayern didn`t only lose the Championship, Müller probably also lost his top goal scorer title to Lothar Kobluhn that year.

Indeed. Though it must be added that not only Müller was missing in the first few matches, but also Beckenbauer.
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thank you very much for the information...i didnt knew the suspension for a red card in game in south america..maybe i have forgotten whats happend in this days.. ..i was 13 years old in this days......what a stupid decision and it has hurt the whole bayern team.....

beckenbauer has missed some games in the 1964-65 second division too..well you are a big number to get this old informations...

great and thanks a lot.....

pitt

621380 · Dec 1, 2004

Re: a question to gregoriak.how important was müller really for bayern and team germa

Gregoriak said:

That was the most annoying suspension ever. Bayern had been on a South American tour in January 1971, in one of the games Müller got a red card. It was just a friendly. Nobody expected any repercussions. But suddenly in May, the German FA decided that Müller should get suspended for two Bundesliga games because of that red card from a friendly in January in South America! A ridiculous ruling. Bayern didn`t only lose the Championship, Müller probably also lost his top goal scorer title to Lothar Kobluhn that year.

Indeed. Though it must be added that not only Müller was missing in the first few matches, but also Beckenbauer.
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here is a link to a interview with müller and benny lauth from year 2003....in german language.... very intresting was müller has say a bit about his career, the timeperiod he has played,his defenders ect....

http://www.tsv1860.de/?id=793&PHPSESSID=ce8344fd9a10f01e46bd7718f7e5395a

pitt