A question on the whole immigration debate...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by nicodemus, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As the debate regarding the status of illegal immigrants in the US continues to rage on, it got me to thinking about a good friend of mine that was an illegal immigrant and how people would react to his story/status.

    This guy I was friends with was South African. In the interest of full disclosure, he is Zulu. Since so many are saying this is more of a race debate instead of a legal status debate I figured that was important to mention.

    So, we have a guy who is a black South African that entered the US legally on a tourist visa. However, he never had any intention of leaving. He saved up for a plane ticket here, had some family here and kind of bounced around and eventually wound up living with an aunt and uncle. He worked in the stockroom of a sporting goods store.

    The only reason he got caught and deported was he had an accident playing soccer and screwed his knee up badly. When he went to the hospital, they patched him up, but also reported him to the authorities.

    Assuming he was never caught, should he get the same proposed deal since he entered legally but didn't choose to leave or is his situation different since he didn't enter illegally?

    Since so much of the debate is swirling around people from Latin America, I just wanted to see what people's take would be on the situation of an illegal immigrant from another part of the world whose situation was vastly different.
     
  2. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    he entered legally as a tourist. he remained ILLEGALLY as a resident. I'm going to have to side with the authorities here.
    but as far as the current deals go, he'd have to be offered the same deal as the latinos.
     
  3. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    The devil is in the details, and your question assumes there is an agreed upon proposed deal. To the extent that guest worker programs and the like are being discussed, I am not aware of any distinction in the law for people who have overstayed visas vs. people who who entered without a visa. If there were any distinctions, I believe they would favor those who overstayed visas.
     
  4. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess what I'm trying to get at is do people think the guest worker type things being discussed should extend to all illegals or just Mexican illegals or only Latin American illegals.

    The reason I also brought up what his occupation was is because it is different from the common argument of "Well, Americans don't want these jobs anyway." Obviously some high school kid or someone in college would be a likely candidate to work part time in a sporting goods store.

    I'm just trying to get some specific opinions from different people on what they think she be done, whether it's kicking everyone out, giving everybody a green card or what and what limitations they would put on it.

    I figured bringing up somone from a different part of the world might spur some discussion since the issue has become so emotional.
     
  5. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    My understanding is that guest workers would sign contracts before coming to the US. I don't think it's a program where existing illegal immigrants would qualify as long as they're in the country.

    This raises interesting questions about what the infrastructure for such a program would look like: who's going to take charge of setting up the contracts, where would contracts be signed (US embassies?), would there be contract labor offices in the caribbean, central america, and china as well as in mexico, etc.
     
  6. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I work with a lot of people here on visas. They are/were upset about the propsed deal for amnisty because they felt they played by the rules while the illegals did not.
     
  7. michael greene

    Oct 31, 2002
    I don't see how a guest worker provision could be limited to one group. Geographically, it makes sense that the labor force would be Mexican/Central American, as are 70-80% of illegals in the US now according to estimates I've seen. But legally, I would think it would be open to all.
     
  8. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is actually a large illegal Irish gathering around this issue as well ,so I doubt that place of origin means anything in the debate.

    Latin Americans are the poster children for the debate because they are just so much easier to hate than Canadians or the Irish
     
  9. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's how my wife and inlaws feel since they're all immigrants.
     
  10. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    Can anyone find any reliable statistics on the percentage of illegal immigrants who've overstayed visas vs. crossed the border illegally?
     
  11. chrisinho

    chrisinho Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Back in HelLA
    Well, I may not have "the" statistic but I am "a" statistic.

    My family entered the US in 1982 under a tourist visa. We stayed here illegally until 1992 when our paperwork to emigrate legally finally came through based on an expired "green card lottery" that my father had never acted on. In that time, my parents had paid their taxes every year, bought a house and resumed careers as school teachers. I paid my taxes every year as well as soon as I started working when I was 16.

    Did my family break the law? Yes. Was it a risk worth taking? Yes. Do more people cross over the border illegally than overstay? My gut tells me yes although off the top of my head, I've known six other illegals and none were Mexican (Canadian, Irish, French, Swedish and English to be exact) and all had entered as tourists.
     
  12. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0

    See, I'm inclined to believe it's the other way. That's why I'd be curious to see any published reports that tried to quantify it. Though I don't know how reliable they'd be anyway.
     
  13. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Naaa, it's because they are the poster children for this debate.

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-immig02.html

    a recent study.....shows illegals from Mexico account for 56 percent of all illegal immigrants in America. Another 22 percent come from the rest of Latin America

    Plus, a lot of Latin Americans speak Spanish only. So it's a question, whether you like it or not, as to whether we want to change our culture. "Press 1 for English" lol
     
  14. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Just turn on the tv. Did you see a Canadian and Irish protest?
     
  15. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    Change whose culture?
     
  16. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    This just in: Latin Americans can get tourist visas, too.
     
  17. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Obviously not yours
     
  18. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Thanks for the info
     
  19. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    So do I. They consider it quite unfair. They wait years, pay legal fees, and some have had to put up with long hours in white-collar jobs where they face lots of difficulties because if they were to quit and not have another employer to sponsor their H visa, they need to leave America.

    And I consider it highly unfair too. I came here, but LEGALLY; paid taxes all the time as did the rest of my family. We obeyed the laws from the moment the idea to relocate to America arose and did so until the day those of my family and I were sworn in as US citizens.
     
  20. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    His situation is not unusual. It is impossible to have accurate statistics of illegal immigrations, but it is estimated that more than half of illegal immigrants to this country entered the country legally and overstay. And of course they should all get the same deal.

    Personally, I think all illegal immigrants who are working and contributing to this country should get amnesty. I submit that it is the only logical solution to the problem, unless we want America to be a country with a caste system.
     
  21. phats_away

    phats_away Member

    Jul 28, 2001
    Atlanta, Ga
    if there is any deal for amnesty, those immigrants who have current visas will be the first to become citizens. it's not as if they are going to have to go to the back of the line.
     
  22. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    Maybe, maybe not. I can imagine the problem the white Anglos that founded LA and San Diego would have a big problem with it. Did culture change with each new wave of immigration? Sure. Do you have to change yours? No.
     
  23. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Thats' right. We're all part of the human race. Let's join hands and sing "Kumbaya" :D
     
  24. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    Itchycoo Park
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Any sort of "amnesty" program is going to involve waiting years and paying legal fees.
     
  25. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    Itchycoo Park
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    White Mexicans founded LA and San Diego. ;)
     

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