A Midfield: general/warrior/great player - who?

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Dark Savante, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. Bronaldo

    Bronaldo Red Card

    Apr 8, 2007
    Canada
    Ignacio Camacho from Atletico looks to be a very good prospect in the position and i think he can be formed to play our style of football while still offering steel in the midfield.
     
  2. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    The difficulty is putting names in here says it all, right?

    Anyways, got another name for ya, Axel Witsel. We were linked with him earlier in the season; never seen him play though:p:D

    oh, and yes, we were also linked with the "next Mascherano" earlier in the season, some argie lad called Franco Zucilini. Again, no clue whatsoever.
     
  3. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I dont know if you ever watched him play for Bayern, he is not a classical DM and doesnt sit deep.

    Did you saw M. Diarra play for Lyon ? He does what Song does for Arsenal, mainly there for his breaking play.

    And yes Mascherano plays as the classical sitting DM, Liverpool 4-0 wins change nothing.
     
  4. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Melo is more a DLP himself who can defend than a DM or a box to box CM, he can play but he is not the tenacious midfield player we are looking for.
     
  5. muusa

    muusa New Member

    May 29, 2006
    Houston
    I've only seen him play once, but Fernando certainly looked like he fit the bill against us in midweek
     
  6. bayern is god

    bayern is god Member+

    May 26, 2007
    india
    Try coaxin Stefan Effenberg outta retirement!!:p
     
  7. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Mavuba is in Spain now, dont remember with who.
    Lorik Cana of Marseille is another more muscles than brain player, he is from Albania, not that young either.

    Camacho is a very interesting shout, Manuel Fernandes is worth a look perhaps.

    And yeah Yaya Toure isnt a upgrade on Hargreaves, fails to get into the side ahead of Keita if 1 DM is choosen, he is a tidy good player not what we need.
     
  8. Simply Red

    Simply Red Member

    Feb 15, 2007
    I am also in favour of our team getting a little bit harder. I do however also appreaciate our recent success and will therefore try to come up with an alternative for our midfield.

    Just from trying to name a potential midfield general/warrior/great player shows how few of them there are. The opener uses Chelsea and Essien as the example of one team we would struggle against, but in fairness it is also the only team in the world that has such a player and team that we should really fear. We showed time and again that we are able to beat a midfield with De Rossi in it, so we are not fundamental prone against such sides. Most of the time we are fine just playing passing football. Recent success backs this theory.

    By the end of last season we finally found a functioning system for Hargreaves. Him on the right side of the midfield as a runner, with Carrick behind him, and Scholes or Anderson rotating for the last spot. Hargreaves is a warrior and has a lot of fire. What do you reckon the potential of that midfield would be with a proper preseason with that system?

    As it is very hard to name such general/warrior/great midfielders, would it be worth gambling with the potential of the system we have with Hargo unless we could lure one of the very best, say De Rossi or Flamini?

    I also think it is worth considering the impact of the decline of Scholes will have on next season and our midfield. We will lose a brilliant passer of the ball, and do we replace that posision with a only a warrior, or do we also need a creative midfielder? De Rossi and Flamini would both cost a fair chunk of money. How about giving a bold bid for Fabregas instead? How would a midfield of Fabregas, Carrick and Hargo perform? I would fancy that midfield against Chelsea or any other team with a warrior. I know Fabregas is not realistic, but the example was more an idea of how we could work around the whole problem of finding a general/warrior if cannot lure say De Rossi or Flamini.

    In this day and age it seems that passing is a more efficient skill than combating. We have won the league last two seasons, we won the CL last season, and we are not doing to bad this season so far. We only face Chelsea 2 times a year in the league, and it is never sure that we will even face them in the CL. Is it worth changing our system to accommodate to them or is the Hargosystem good enough for the times we need more combating?
     
  9. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    At this moment I dont really see quality available box to box midfielders, there are DLPs, DMs, AMs but no real all round CMs.
     
  10. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Fabregas and Carrick will work as both can defend and both keep possesion, it will be like Carrick's first season when both him and Scholes acted as DLPs and we played some excellent football, but he is a fantasy player.
     
  11. JAKE SPEED

    JAKE SPEED Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    Toure is a better passer than Sissoko and Hargreaves, but he's not a premiere midfielder. He, Keita, and Busquets all look serviceable in that the do a job and give the premiere players at Barca a platform to build on. If we are talking about finding a premiere player whose name is first on the teamsheet here, no chance on any of them, or Diarra, or Sissoko.

    All I know is that many of the Madrid fans that I've talked to aren't particularly impressed, and that their perception is similar to the one that I have after watching him a few times. He is an athlete, but he's not a warrior. What does that Madrid fan who lurks here have to say? He's generally seems in touch with how his team is performing....

    The fact that Sissoko is looked at as a good signing kind of proves the point though. It's easier to look good in Serie A than in the prem in that kind of role.

    To be honest, we've missed Hargreaves a lot these last few weeks. He definitely has bottle and his versatility would have let us rest Carrick, Evra and O'Shea if necessary. In fact, I don't even think we'd be seeing O'Shea in any important games if we had the ability to play Hargreaves at RB this year. He has his limitations---namely, that I don't think he'll ever work in a midfield two for us, but he would give us the tactical flexibility, drive, and hunger that we've been missing. I found myself wishing we had had Hargreaves after each of the last 4 matches. Try and tell me that you wouldn't want to play him, Carrick and Giggs in a midfield three at Porto in order to free up Ronaldo....
     
  12. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Maybe we can revert back to last year formation of 4231 and wont be needing one, or going 442 with a rhombus midfield, rather than then 442 we have playing this year which needs one.
     
  13. LA. MAN UNITED

    LA. MAN UNITED Member+

    May 22, 2006
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We passed on Marco Senna to sign Hargreaves but he's probably close to peaking. Jean Makoun was always a handful when he played for Marseille , but I havent followed him since he moved to Lyon...
     
  14. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    Mascherano, although dissimilar in role, is another player who has contributed to over-running our midfled. We have had success, yes, but the thing to consider here is that:

    1. We've won the CL by a whisker, and were badly under the cosh through the middle in the second half of regulation - it was a very narrow margin and a 50/50. We had to literally cede the midfield to Barcelona and block up our 3rd because we knew we couldn't go into a midfield game and combat them or stifle Xavi's influence with who we have through the middle. I don't think we'd like to go through this every time push comes to shove.

    2. When we have been knocked out of the CL in the recent past, it's been by a team over-running us in midfield, the last player who has done that was Gatusso, where we couldn't cope with the pressure and power of his game. It was also very disappointing to see Fernando have so much influence against us on Tuesday. These things are so easily avoidable with the right personnel.

    3. We're that one player away from not having an obvious, genuine weakness. If teams know they can go straight through you they'll damned sure do it all game long - it's a nervy game we play win or lose when Scholes is not at his best because we neither control the midfield or have the power to stop the oppo doing so.

    Anyone knocking our success without a player of this type is a fool, but to make us that much more imposing and actually feared through the midfield, we need a player of this type.

    Hargreaves is a wilcard to me. We can't be sure his knees are going to hold up and without Quieroz, are you sure we'll play anything but a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1? Because I'm not.

    Hargreaves has the spirit, the fight, the pace and the doggedness I'm talking about. But in technical terms, through the middle, he makes us nervous, especially WRT to forward momentum.

    De Rossi is levels above Flamini, I meant more that Flamini is a good suggestion for the price-range mentioned, really. I was very impressed with him before he left for Italy and he ticks all the boxes *if that last season at Arsenal is his consolidated level and not just a blip.

    Hargreaves is too Saha-esque for me to say we should rely on him and not have him as a 20 game wild-card player. If we do not plan well and he so happens to go down injured next season, we'd only have ourselves to blame. It'd be like having Rosicky and not making a contingency plan..

    This is on my mind a lot seeing as the Ginger Ninja now definitely appears to be on his last legs, but isn't Llajic coming in to be both a flank mid and to play in the middle? I don't think we'll buy to replace Scholes, not with Anderson, Llajic and Possebon here, anyway.

    It's not just Chelsea! We get over-run in midfield a hell of a lot for the team that we are! Liverpool did it to us twice this season as well. As in the second quoted post, everyone knows what our weakness is and every top team (with any sense) looks to exploit it. We look far from convincing when up against it and it shouldn't be that way as traditionally central midfield is what made us what we are now.
     
  15. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    ^^ DS, you forgot Petrucci who imo has a greater chance atm that Ljajic and Possebon.

    That would be the most obvious solution.
     
  16. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    ^ yea, Petrucci as well.
     
  17. Invincible

    Invincible Member+

    Mar 28, 2004
    Sanctuary
    Ignore him, he has something against the two new Serbs as well as Possebon.























    ;)
     
  18. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Dec 5, 2005
    Macondo
    That's not true. Toure is the main DM for Barca. Keita has rarely played as a lone DM.
     
  19. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

    May 14, 2008
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Keita is their DM, it is not Toure.
    We will probably have a good idea whoever plays against Chelsea/Liverpool.
     
  20. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    had a rough adjustment initially, but has done quite well of late. not great, but more than held his own the last couple of months. looks like it was just a case of a rough few months settling into a new league/team, which is quite common. i guess we will see next season for sure what he is about, but the late-season returns look promising. i doubt he will be for sale, though.
     
  21. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I've mentioned this name three times before this season. Weiss from Hoffenheim is a type of player with the workrate and guts of Gattuso and he's shown he can be a link up player in a team that plays quick on the ground, attack-oriented football. I don't know how much of a hindrance his height would be since he's very short but he's the tenacious type I've always associated with someone who United needs. He's still very raw though but on sheer potential, it's worth looking into.

    benni mentioned Luis Gustavo. He's a bit less refined and doesn't show the teeth that I would associate with a player having to go up week in, week out in the Premiership. He's also less outspoken, whereas Weiss is one of the leaders of said Hoffenheim team, even though it's gotten him in trouble.
     
  22. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Dec 5, 2005
    Macondo
    Believe me, I've watched most Barca matches this season. Toure is Barca's main DM, when it's not him it's Busquets. I really don't recall Keita playing as a lone DM in hardly any matches. Even today when Keita came on Busquets was playing as the DM. In the match against Bayern Barca played a midfield of Toure, Xavi, Iniesta.

    / threadjack. My bad.
     
  23. United Forever

    Apr 16, 2004
    Barbados
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Barbados
    I have read through this thread with great interest with the names bandied about and what not. I wonder though how come no one has ever given the thought of Sebastian Battaglia. Maybe I am just overhyping him in my personal estimation. Why is he still in Argentina?? :confused:
     
  24. omar_mufc

    omar_mufc Member

    Oct 19, 2004
    I've said this name before, but for me, the prime midfielder we should be looking at is Stephane Sessegnon from PSG - Looks a wonderful player, very strong in the tackle and is also absoloute quality, and when i say quality, i mean quality, in the final 3rd...
     
  25. three lions

    three lions Member

    Apr 2, 2005
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Shame Hargreaves is so injury prone.... He is exactly what is needed at this present time in the fight for the titles. Workhorse, relentless midfielder when healthy..Carrick and Hargreaves playing together could cause other teams some trouble.
     

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