Reading through the CL thread, I came across these two posts that I found galling: Christ. I hate that we're so soft in midfield. If there's one thing I am a spoilt brat about in regard to this club, it's in us being ferocious in midfield. Losing, drawing, winning, whatever - being behemothic in the middle of the pitch is an expectation and demand, for me. The last time we went out for (and got) an actual hard-man in the middle of the pitch we ended up with... Djemba x2 Fail. We then moved for and were parried out of Essien. The last attempt was Hargreaves, who is a '?' for all intents and purposes on a lot of levels. Watching Essien in the CL game against Liverpool reminded me of a few things. If we do happen to meet Chelsea again this season and he is fit and playing in midfield we will have to make contigency plans to contain/withstand him, we always have to worry ourselves when coming up against a side with top quality DM or DCM. In the days where we had Manlaw here, we would just drop a Nuclear Keane on such a player and reap the benefit of the fallout and that would be that, no more thought required, no plans put in place and no concern at all about central midfeld. How times have changed as we dither and pansy about whenever we're met with true, quality resistance through the middle of the pitch. Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes, Anderson and even Hargreaves - they all try their best to stave off the opposing power+ quality mix, but in one or both measures, each one of them is found wanting: Fletcher has the heart and the focus, but is not of the quality of the top percentile in the position. Carrick has neither the spirit for battle or the physical tools to go head-to-head with a midfield warrior. Anderson has no stamina or positional discipline - he's the type who does a job on a Gerrard or Fabregas, not an Essien or Mascherano. Scholes is just not designed for that in any shape or form. And Hargreaves.. he does not have the ability on the ball or the composure in his play to be the go-to man in a direct head-to-head clash against the top percentile in those aformentioned roles. We have needed a genuine, world-class behemoth in the middle of the pitch for a long time, but have gotten by with cunning, smarts and complete avoidance of midfield wars in the meantime. Sure, it works - some of the time, but equally, in a lot of contests we just get straight ran through the middle and bullied out of our game. Every coach, manager or fan with any sense at all knows that the bits bolded from the quotes above are what are needed to beat us. I wrote the first post on 21st Dec 2008 (ffs) and we've been rolled over through the middle too many times to mention since then in big games. We've been going on about De Rossi on this board for nigh on 3yrs now, but who else is out there who can directly address this need? We need a striker of comparable class here as well, but the biggest expenditure, for me, would go straight into that central midfield warrior who can have us match any side for raw power and quality in the middle and not have us panic/struggle the moment it becomes a battle in the middle. I'd forgo a Benzema for a De Rossi, for example. Our team would be dramatically altered with a midfield-warrior. The defence would be less-stressed, the midfield would be unafraid and the attack would see more of the ball, our star men would be protected (enforced) and I believe the combination of players we could put out in the central area would be dramatically altered with such a player being comfortable next to any of our current midfielders as part of a two or three man midfield. We had a 1500+ post discussion about strikers (and we're still not done there) can we have something similar about potential all-in-one hero midfielders please? Recommendations, suggestions..etc, etc. Is Toulalan the best that's out there who's not already at a 'final destination' big club? That guy Tymoschuk really did look like he fit the bill. How galling is it to know we could've had Senna for £6m and passed him over...waiting for Hargreaves.. >_< Who is out there that you guys like the look of?
No-one. Let's just get another (average) body in midfield in Barry for 7-8m and then go all-out when the next Essien is available. I would have said M. Diarra but that ain't gonna happen given the relationship between the two clubs. Flamini for the same reasons as Barry if we can get him for under 10m.
^^sorry, DS, are you saying you find your own posts galling? Rather harsh, I think. I usually like your posts... Having said that, I watched a little bit of Liverpool this morning. They scored 4 minutes in with a long ball to Torres' foot. Very direct. Very instantaneous. Reminded me that all the other teams are tired too. I was trying to remember what we did when we had the ball, other than run around with it and eventually give it away. And I don't know who in Utd's midfield right now could serve that kind of ball in. So, yeah, we need someone in the midfield. I don't think he has to be a general, I think we just need someone who can pass the ball consistently really well. And defend some. Right now, I don't know what the midfielders do when they're on the field.
Where are you getting such low prices from? I'd take Flamini in a heartbeat. He doesn't fit the title description, but he has all the elements we miss, is a good passer and has lots of heart and fight. Not necessarily a 'DM' per se, just someone who is great on the defensive end, getting stuck in, fighting for the ball, loves a battle and can actual tackle without falling apart who can pass well and get up and support the team offensively when called to do so. We've no problem with Carrick in that sense.
Barry has only 1 more year left on his contract and Villa will not qualify for the CL; and MoN has no issues with us so 7-8m for him is completely reasonable imo. As for Flamini, I think he hasn't really been a success in Italy and Milan would still make a profit on a player they got on free only last season so I can see a price of 10m work out for all parties concerned; assuming Flamini wants such a move.
If we only buy one world class player this summer, id want it to be a centre midfielder... however i fear SAF sees hargreeves return as a reason not to do this!
I think we're being done in by the fact that we have so many central midfielders at the club. Fergie probably feels he needs to rotate them all, and none of them are the 'warrior' type so... for the foreseeable future I don't see us getting that type of player. Fletcher-Anderson?-Gibson-Possebon all in line for central midfield...do you see any warriors there? I don't. IMO we could've gotten away with it if we had someone(namely, Rooney) existing in that purgatory between attack and midfield, like this: ---------------Rooney -------DLP/CM---------CM/DLP Having an outlet of Rooney's quality could really help if one of the CMs are being pressed, but with this 4-4-2 shape, it just isn't going to happen is it. I feel that was our only(and best) option with the personnel we've got. If we can't fight the oppo, we're gonna have to shape the team up to out fox them. I'm still dreaming of that day...
Hmm, Barry? Surprisingly I've never even considered him, always thought he'd be at Liverpool. But he would be a nice pick up, but I would prefer De Rossi or Hamsik maybe.
Hamsik is a long shot, but would be nice. Flamini is hardly playing - I wouldn't mind him at all. Anyone with some balls.
Hamsik is more of an attacking player in center mid, then what we need. Mahamadou Diarra is definately closer to Essien, than Toulalan, but Toulalan is a very good reader of the game, and fearless. I personally think financially, Diarra would be a better bet, especially if we sell then Ronaldo.
The only problem with that is that M. Diarra isn't very good. Tough player to find as it is a player that has attributes that normally don't go together---grit and desire to get stuck in, but composure and calm in positional sense and distribution. Not to mention the technical ability to fit into a fast-paced unit--and actually make that team tick. Hargreaves has the bottle but not the composure or technique, Carrick has the latter but not the former. Essien is ideal, but would be impossible to get. De Rossi likewise--he has the look of a Roma lifer. Surprised no one has mentioned Cambiasso. He's got the battle and the technique, and is a very smart player. Also is very mobile unlike a player like Toulalan. I like Toulalan a lot but there is no way a midfield of him and Carrick would work--too slow and stationary. Barry lacks the class--he's only slightly better than Fletcher in my opinion. He and Carrick looked distinctly second class against Barca's err Spain's midfield. I still think that Anderson can develop into this player. He's got the technique, mobility, and strength. He just needs to learn the positional sense, and get the stamina. Players who excel in this position are generally much older than Anderson---I think he's got a good head start to grow into the position.
sensi f'd up. roma missing the cl will leave them in dire straits financially, she should have sold last year when the economy was better and roma was in the cl plus their assets like totti esepcially were a year younger...i think it is possible that de rossi might be up for sale this season. just a hunch though
Everyone except De Rossi will be on sale if there is one to be honest. Gareth Barry is probably an experienced version of Fletcher and the Spain comment is very harsh, they were against 4 mids and had no passing lanes.
Totally disagree. Apart from having all the physical attributes, he's good enough on the ball, and cerainly a very smart player.
I'll admit I haven't seen more than 10 or so games where he has played, but in my experience he hasn't looked a smart player, is marginal on the ball and by all accounts has been outshone by Gago (who himself isn't great). If we're honest Sissoko has been more impressive for Juventus than Diarra for Madrid, and Sissoko isn't very good. It's uniquely challenging for United to find a combative player who can still keep up the pace of our attack, as we combine pace and technique more than any other team with the possible exception of Arsenal. Sissoko, Diarra, Yaya Toure all have the luxury of being able to take as long as they'd like and still haven't displayed a great aptitude for passing. None would be a great improvement on Hargreaves (health issues aside). I don't see us making a block-buster midfield signing. Maybe a potshot on young atheltic mid with potential. Despite the fact that we've come up second best in midfield against the best sides, I think we'll stick with our current 'platoon' approach where it's not even clear who the first name on the teamsheet is.
:/ Where's the hot talent from: Germany, Holland, France, Argentina, Brazil, Eastern Europe and so on, guys? Is there no-one out there from those leagues who fits the bill?
He isnt that great a player, he is more a athlete than a football player, I can see why guys rate him but we never have used a destroyer or classic DM or atleast not bought one to use in that position (I know Keane played as one when his legs went etc etc). Our DMs can play as well as break play we dont play anyone in a Mascherano position and I dont think we will under Fergie.
Germany? Luis Gustavo from Hoffenheim Brazilian Holland? No clue France? Still Mavuba, Stephen Mbia, I cant remmeber the young players name from Marsiellle, but he's not frm a big country. Brazil? No really in BRazil, but for Fiorentina. Some people consider Felipe Melo a DM, but he's good on the ball, very aggressive and a battler. Arsene is interested. I dont see how you can even class Yaya Toure in the same boat as Sissoko. Yaya Toure is a very good passer, and defiantely a huge uprgarde over Hargreaves. Also, im not sure why people think just because Diarra is an athlete, that all of a sudden he's the type African Dmid... he's not. He's an athletic player, but he is also good on the ball. WaAAYYYY better than Sissoko on the ball. So why did we buy Hargreaves again? Oh for right wing lol... Im not sure what you've been watching, but not even MAscherano plays as a Defensive midfielder in that sense anymore. Diarra can break up play, and can play the ball as well.
Not inclined to go for Barry at all(?); I would agree with that if we are sure that Hargreaves is going to make a return next season. And, as for your question, I can't think of anyone. Felipe Melo from Viola might be a shout but he is 25 and you have to wonder what was he doing all these years before this season. So, I guess we will have to wait out on this one. Matty James might have had a shout at the role but imo his lack of pace/acceleration would be his undoing.
How many of those do you think could seriously hang with: - The PL - The amount of games we play - The level of our progessive football - The amount of spirit and bottle required - A direct tussle with the likes of Essien and Mascherano and so forth? Barry's too placid. Lacks character for that kind of role, for me. He's also not an enforcer or anyone who will rise from the pit and drag others out through sheer force of will. That kind of internal fire I see burning in players like: Essien, Mascherano, Tymoschuk, Hamrin, Flamini, Gatusso, De Rossi etc; I don't see in him. I'm not as sold on James as many seem to be.