A message to all the "fans" who call the team "Red Donkeys"...

I'd say he's an enemy of the Red Bulls since he's said he'd rather support the Scum than cheer for the Red Bulls. And have you bothered to read any of this thread, or any of the other threads where this issue (or the "Metro Reds Initiative" - whatever happened to that?) has been discussed? If you have, you'd know how insulting he's been towards those of us who have chosen to support the NY Red Bulls.

He has his reasons for no longer supporting this team. Fine. But his posts here have been nothing more than those of a troll. And from a mod, that's unacceptable. You expect a mod for a team to support the team - not this conditional "I can't bring myself to call them what they are and want them to fail in their current make-up" attitude Michael K. espouses. He calls cheering for this team cheering for a soda. That's the kind of thing you expect from Scumsupporters.

He should take his initiatives elsewhere.

How's this for a "real idea"?: a mod for the Red Bulls board should support the Red Bulls and not mock its supporters.

 

i wonder why this is still an issue. we bought an all-star jersey labeled with sierra mist. games have been played in continental arena, pepsi park, etc., and i know it's different to play in a stadium named for a beverage than to be rebranded as a beverage. while i agree that cheering for red bulls could be misconstrued as loving a totally disgusting beverage, i don't think anyone has gotten the 2 confused. as for metros, weren't they named for a conglomerate in the first place? metromedia? how is that so different? also, my understanding is that were the new york soccer market to really heat up there would be the possibility that there could actually be another new york team: the metrostars. the former owners still retain the rights to the name. so, (a pollyanna-ish drumroll) let's get together as fans and root for more fans so we can bring back the metros AND still have the red bulls. new york is a big enough market for both.

 

Metromedia wasn't even a going concern by 1996 (according to what I've seen), and there was not one attempt to connect the sales and marketing of broadband cable with the soccer team, ever. The Metrostars had their own logos (admittedly putrid, most of them) - I doubt anyone here could even tell you what a Metromedia logo looked like. That's just another beef here; Red Bull can't even be bothered to differentiate their product logo from their team logo. There is no separate identity, as much some like to argue "we're not cheering for a soft drink!"

 

I said I'm not going to put on a Red Bull shirt and cheer "Come on Red Bulls." The "would rather cheer for DC" was an all-too-obvious-to-everyone-else bit of hyperbole. There is a difference. I have my Metro shirts to wear, and I'm not about to go stand among people singing Red Bull songs and be expected to join in, because I'm not going to join in on those. If they're being sung in 101 now (I've been away), I'll go and sit somewhere on the sides, for the same reason. That's where this really bites; I used to love going out to games and shouting myself silly, but I couldn't bring myself to now. I reckon I'm a casual sideliner, if that.

Now really, enough about me. I myself am not so endlessly fixated on me as you and your obsession with "enemies of the side" seem to be.

 

I saw the play. His hands were up, his feet were somewhat tangled, but here's the thing you forgot buddy boy. STEWART FLOPPED ONTOP OF WOLY!
If that's not a straight red I don't know what is. Apperently you never saw the CLOSE UP REPLAY! You have to understand that while you don't have to physically grab the attacker to get issued a straight red, if you impede his breakaway run at goal in anyway shape or form, Red Card comes out.

Once again read what Fina said. It's in the rule book. Same thing in Hockey sir. You stop a player on a breakaway and take him down, penalty shot.

 

Michael K. Let me say this as I am trying to bring some form of peace & understanding between yourself and Doctor K. I understand where you are coming from and when this coporate takeover from Red Bull to change the name of the club into their own form I hated it as well. I wasn't sure where I was going to put myself either. But I knew I wasn't going to join DC, NE or anyone else inside MLS or all of a sudden join the Rough Riders in Long Island. When I heard that Red Bull was going to keep the history I was relieved. I came back to support the club as RBNY, but at the same time I'm not going to throw away my Metros merchandize either. It's apart of the history.

Just because the logo of the soda can is infront of the shirt and the main part of the shield, doesn't mean you are actually going to the pub to mix the Red Bull with Vodka or actually stopping at a 7-11 to purchase it. Should the Leverkusen fans stop supporting their club because the Bayer Asperin company has their medicine logo in the shield? Or should Eindhoven stop supporting their club because the P in PSV stands for the Philips electronics company.

Sooner or later this was going to happen. It's already happened with stadium naming rights, the sponsers on the front of the shirts in Soccer and of course the moving ad signs on the field. Do we all have to agree with it? no but right now this is what makes the world go round.

But here is where I agree with what Doctor K is saying. If you support the players of the club then for godsakes stop trashing the club. You want to wear your Metro jersey in 101 and watch a match there, it's fine come on over. You don't have to chant Red Bull, you can continue to chant Metro no one is forcing you to change that one name. We are all here to support our NYC Division one club in Major League Soccer. That's what should really matter here regardless of what's on the front of the shirt. Yes it's tough for me to say this, but let's look at the positives that Red Bull has done and where MetroMedia and AEG have failed.

The only good from AEG was honestly doing was finding a way to build a stadium. The rest was nothing. We were ignored by both Kluge & Stubotnick as well as AEG's brass because they loved their Home Depot Center and their Galaxy. So far all the positives we have seen have come from off the field. Stadium renderings have changed to BENEFIT the supporters as well as their own pockets. They have also saw the need for automatic change and did so with the hiring of Bruce Arena as well as bring in John Harkes. Richie Williams was a blessing in disguise and Mo had a hand in that, but still everything Red Bull has done has been positive.

So while I say leave the energy drink can alone, I can still say go out and support the club. Because we are not cheering the can. We are cheering for Bruce and the boys. I will extend my hand and welcome you back 100% into the fold Michael.

I also hate the Red Donkey's moniker because I think these people stopped caring as well.

 

Michael,

This discussion is getting a bit too heated, but it is an important one. There is a fundamental problem here which I don't think you are seeing. You are no longer a supporter of this team. This is not because anyone else is casting you out, but by your own choice.

The fundamental obligation of anyone who calls himself a supporter of a team is to hope that they are as successful as possible - to hope that they win every game, every Cup, hell, even every friendly. You can curse at them, their poor play, their poor management decisions endlessly, but it is not because you have some hatred for them in your heart, but because they aren't as successful as you want them to be. But, by your own admission here, that is not how you and other "Donkey" people feel.

As you said above, you want this team to "blow up". You want this team to fail in the vain hope that the team will be sold. Which means that you are not rooting for us to win the league and be successful, but to lose. Oh, you want to see various individual players such as Wynne or Altidore play well and develop, but you want the TEAM to lose. I don't know if you have even admitted that to yourself, but it is the inescapable conclusion of what you have written. You want this team to sink to Bora-like depths for years, if necessary, for the "greater good" of driving out Red Bull.

Like Reagan once said about his leaving the Democratic party, I'm sure that you feel that you didn't leave the team, the team left you. But you have left, regardless. You are still here partly because of the time you have invested over the years (and you did as much as anyone,to your great credit) and because there is no other local team to support. If AEG started another team in Giants Stadium, I suspect you and the others would rush to support it in about 8 seconds. Of course, if they were called the Cosmos, Wandering Soccerdog would beat you there handily

We are the New York Red Bulls. Whether we wanted to be such or not, that is the fact. You are like someone who decides that he doesn't believe in God, hates the idea of a Pope, and wishes that the Vatican would burn to the ground, yet still calls himself a Catholic because he grew up that way and, besides, there isn't a Unitarian church in his town. You may feel that you have some "deeper loyalty" to Metro, but like the Confederacy or the USSR, they aren't coming back. Don't bother saving your MPF hats, boys, Metro will not rse again. For all the misery we went through, I wouldn't trade our past for anything because it was ours, but "Metro" is gone. Right or wrong, that is the fact.

There are some who cannot accept the name change but still support the team. And no one has any problem with that. NO ONE has ever said or will ever say "You can't wear Metro jerseys anymore" or "You aren't a real supporter unless you sing Red Bull songs". There are some who will still only sing Metro songs twenty years from now. And that is fine. But you have to support the team to be considered a supporter. You have to want them to succeed. And that is why there is such a negative reaction to the "Donkey" stuff. Becuse it isn't meant affectionately. It comes from the anger and hatred that some feel when they see "their" players in Red Bull jerseys. It comes from the betrayal that you feel and is meant as an insult. And you shouldn't be surprised if people who support this team (regardless of the name) don't react well when others insult it.


To Michael and any other "Donkey" fans, I would ask you one more thing. Give me an honest answer to this question. If you magically had the power to snap your fingers and have one of the following two scenarios occur, which would it be?


Scenario 1
Red Bull wins the Supporters Shield and MLS Cup in 2007 and in 2008, crushing DC along the way. The games (including the final) are sold out in Red Bull Arena throughout 2008 and everyone, as they watch Altidore record his hat trick in the final, is chanting "We are Red Bull". The Wall Street Journal writes a short time later about what a brilliant investment Red Bull made by buying the team and how their sales are going through the roof. With Exantus and the other young talents coming through the Academy, the future looks bright.

Scenario 2
Red Bull spend the next three years at the bottom of the eastern conference, almost breaking the old Metro record of 7 wins in a season. Arena is fired in early 2008 and DC goes on to win the next 3 MLS Cups. Red Bull sales fall and there are rumors that they may sell the team since the constant losing risks damaging their brand, although they deny this publicly.


Which scenario would you choose? If you even have to hesitate, I think you need to look in the mirror and decide to be honest with yourself and make a decision, as difficult or unfair as that may seem. Still considering yourself a supporter, yet rooting against this team, cannot be enjoyable. In fact, it must be rather painful. Whether you left the team or the team left you, it might be time to accept the divorce.

For what I believe is the vast majority, we didn't choose our new owners, but we support the team unreservedly, regardless of their name or colors. They are our team, whether called Empire SC, Metro or Red Bull. We should work to make sure this doesn't become too personal, because we all have too much history together over the years in 101. But if the discussion gets too heated sometimes, it is because we don't react well when people insult our team by calling them Donkeys.

 

A wonderful, thoughtful post Prazan and I thank you very much for articulating what I feel as well.. Kudos! ag

 

Guys, did any of you read the part where I said I call them the Metros? I simply think your collective reaction to "Red Donkeys" is a fascinating, curious combo of being thin-skinned and lacking imagination. Or something along those lines.

 

All I know is that I cannot mention the RBNY name without being intensely aware of the brand as I say it. I don't wish the team ill will, but I still hate the idea that the team I adopted as my own does not have its own financial stability and competitive success as its ultimate goal. As long as Mateschitz is owner, the ultimate goal will always be to sell caffeinated sugar water.

 

How about we call the team from the Mo Johnston era "Teh Red Donkeys"

The team now under Bruce and Richie The Bulls


ITS ALL CAUS OF MOJO!!!!!!!!!!!


I call em the Bullz but Donkeys is just funny at times

 

I have no problem if some fans call the team the Red Donkeys. If they're out there in the stands for every home game cheering the team on, I could care less about what they think about the owner of the team. I see humor and wit behind the Red Donkey idea. I also understand why some are upset.

Some of the people who (on occasion) call the team the Donkey's ARE fans of the team on the field. They are unconditionally bound to the team on the field and will support the team on the field through thick and thin. That doesn't mean they will approve of every thing the players, coaches, or management does, but they will be there week in and week out bringing their voices to the game.

They WILL continue to support the product on the field even if they don't support the product on the badge.

FWIW I call the team Red Bull and Metro. Right now their names are interchangeable, but I'm sure that as time goes on fewer and fewer fans will know what Metro means.

What does bother me is the confusion many fans have in the ESC with what to call the team when singing out "traditional" Metro songs.

Some Shout "Metro" Some Shout "Red Bull" Some Shout "New York"
At least nobody is shouting "Donkeys".......yet.

We're going through an organic transition, and who knows where everything will end up.

 

Yes, everything would have been okay if you just had Scott Garlick

 

That may be the case, however: A successful Red Bull NY will always sell more caffeinated sugar water than an unsuccessfull Red Bull NY. I haven't talked to Mr. Mateschitz lately, but I'm sure he's aware of that. He can have the ultimate goal, I'll be perfectly happy with the byproduct.

 

In the end and with my heart, I'd rather see scenario one. It would just be a somewhat Pyrhhic victory, seeing the team supplicate itself before the corporate altar like no other team in the country. But I've got much better things to do than spend each day lighting candles for the downfall of RB and rooting actively for it to happen, so I'm not about to get stuck doing that; I'd walk away first. As I stated about forty posts back, the end result of this for me isn't some misery, just disaffection. I'm a lot less wrapped up in the team and the league now. It's an object of curiosity, something to analyze and question. That's what adults do with things in the real world.

In the meantime, when I find myself drawn into these discussions, I try to ask serious, pointed questions in order to figure out if it's possible to be that success you hypothesize. There are literally dozens of such questions.

Where is the great record of RB-style, branded, bottom-line-oriented corporate ownership in modern American major pro sports? Do you really, truly believe they're in it for the long haul? If not, how about the inevitable re-rebranding in five, ten, twenty years when the next owner comes in and doesn't want to give them free advertising?

Is it not true that RB is, just like AEG, a distant, megacorporate owner, that this team is not their only, or primary, priority, and that a more complex agenda is at work here, above and beyond having a great soccer organization (to build concert facilities: to sell soft drinks)?

How would you feel if Red Bull buys half a dozen more soccer teams around the world and calls them all Red Bull -----; are you going to feel cheapened, like this team is just one more branch office? Because that seems very much their M.O.

Do you really think this setup is ever going to appeal to the multitudes of NY-area soccer fans reared on traditional leagues and teams, or will they always turn their nose up at the marketing aspect? But then, do you think RB really cares if it ever has an authentic atmosphere, just as long as it makes money?

Isn't the New York area great enough to deserve a team that represents something about/intrinsic to it, as opposed to some Thai-concocted, Austrian-promoted sugar drink?

It's clear that a gaggle of posters here don't want, and can't cope with, any questions at all. They want to be and be around cheerleaders.

 

Don't take this as a personal attack because it isn't meant as one but more a general response to this type of statement.

Why the hate or anger at an owner that just finsihed popping down 100 million for a team that was treading water at best and in serious danger of folding. The ineptitude of the past ten years, lies, and BS statements coming from the previous owners and management have all been wiped clean by this guy. Less than one year in , we've got a 1.4 million dollar coach, probably the best domestic coach to date, leading this club, and FINALLY an actual set date september 19th, for THE STADIUM and to top that all off after ten long years in the wilderness this team may actually get a place to train, that doesnt require calling in or kicking the jv cheerleading team off the field in order to practise ,hallelujah praise mateschitz period.

All positive moves in my opinion, there is more stability and progress this past 6 months than there has been in the 10 years combined of this organization. Never have i been as positive about the future of NY metro/Redbull as i am now.

Who honestly gives a crap what the owner sells, soft drinks, aspirin, cell phones this is a capitalist society after all. If i sold widgets, and were to buy a team, you'd be damn sure i'd have widgets.com everywhere. All I and any other fan should care about is the product on the pitch, the new ownerships respect for fans and history and the teams present and future. So far all i see is check to every single one of those.

And just to intrude once more on a few of you old timers as it pertains to metros history and the new name. Red donkey is derogatory anyone that chooses to call them that isn't a fan, i get enough of that sh-t from fans of other clubs. Feel free to eliminate your source of anger, why prolong it, and find another club to root for.

Mateschitz and RedBull, until proved otherwise, have been nothing but positive to this club and area. Without them management would still be blowing smoke up our collective asse-- as it pertains to the stadium, Mo would still be coach, we'd still be playing a 3-5-2 with wynne pulling splinters out of his as- on the bench, 20 people coming to matches if that and working on the worst record in the histroy of this club.

 

Further proof that Red Bulls are bigger than Red Donkeys:

(this pictures were NOT altered in any way, I swear!)





BTW - Both these animals think anyone taking this argument seriously needs to chill out with their buddy:

 

This assumption is charming in its naivete.
How do you know that Mateschitz's guys haven't worked out that the impact their brand gets just from being in the league, from getting their name and images on TV, in the sports pages, etc., won't be improved that significantly if they lay out lots of money, especially in a random league like MLS? We imagine they're willing to put some money out there, but what if that's reserved for big names who increase the brand's profile, not lesser names who make the team better overall?

Your "successful" need not be their "successful."

Red Bull, as much or maybe more than any major corp. I can think of, engages in strange, counterintuitive marketing as a matter of course. They throw away a lot of money in mysterious ways; that is the way they do things. I refer again to this fascinating, disturbing piece on RB's sponsorship of an "extreme" kiteboarding-to-Cuba event.


"Maybe it was the Red Bull, but the beach scene struck me as odd. It wasn't the apparent incongruity of a drink postures as an aid to sporting achievement but is also widely used as a party potion. Nor was it the maddening uncooperativeness of Red Bull's PR flacks, which I'd experienced from the moment I first contacted the company. (I'd originally been invited to ride in one of the boats escorting the kiteboarders to Cuba. Then I was disinvited. Then the trip was postponed and I was invited again. But it was postponed again; from there I entered an information-free loop of shifting dates and contingencies. I finally compromised and decided I would accompany the crew only as far as Key West.)

No, what seemed weird was that this was a marketing event no one knew about. There was no advance press release. There was no Red Bull tent set up to attract local news crews to cover this zany enterprise, or hand out free samples to curious onlookers. For that matter there were no curious onlookers. (One white guy with dreadlocks wandered up to ask if we’re giving lessons; that was it.) There were no carefully recruited coolhunters to pass along the news through the Great American Secret Marketing Underground Network, that Red Bull was presiding over a privately funded effort to kiteboard to the shores of a nation that is the subject of a United States trade embargo. This was one of the most outrageous publicity stunts I'd ever heard of. And it seemed to be happening in a vacuum. How could this possibly make sense?"

I think the lesson is; you assume anything conventional about RB's methods at your peril.

 

I've read the posts closely. I'm wondering about the mindset you bring to the posts when you read them. You should have just let "don't understand" be your last words rather than embarrass yourself further with your divisive attitude.

 

ahhhh terms of endearment.


rules of thumb that i live by:

never call your favorite soccer team "donkeys",

and never pick a nickname like "fatty" for your wife (even if she isn't).

 

Not cheerleaders, but around like-minded individuals who wish the team success no matter what (the so-called fans). You are not one of those anymore. All that is left is for you to admit that to yourself.

 

and just out of curiousity...isn't a term of endearment like "donkeys" which the donkey supporters claim it is, supposed to be received well by the intended recipient?

i wonder how bruce arena, kovelenko, buddle would react if you called them donkeys?

 

You've referred to me as "charming" twice on this thread. Thanks for that!

I don't know anything as to what their grand plans are. I must go by what they've done so far. So far everything they've done points in the direction that they actually want success. To not see that is your folly.

Yes, yes, if you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME. Thank God that there is nothing conventional about RB's methods. They would not own this team, otherwise, and we'd be in the same rut under an ownership group that couldn't care less. I'll assume that RB cares just a little more (at the very least) than our previous ownership group. I'll ask myself if I'm an ASS in 10 years.

 

Michael K. Are you really Metrogo in disguise.

Because right now it looks like you are at that level. Loves to post in our boards but doesn't really support the club anymore. After all the statements you have made, it looks like the Adult has reverted back to a child.

I hate saying this, but I agree. Hand in your Moderator sign and leave our RBNY boards alone.

 

Come on man, help us smoke these non-fans out of their holes.