A little "What if"

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by FanOfFutbol, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    We came very close to either qualifying for Russia directly or entering a playoff that we would have had at least an even chance of winning. We failed, but what would have happened if we had not failed?

    I think we might be in even worse shape at this point that we are now because the old guard would have remained in power and the coach/manager we ended up with could well be even worse than Greg B.

    Of course if we had won even one group match or even gotten out of the group the pride factor could have us playing a lot better than we are. (That would not be too hard to imagine.)

    I have grown tired of all the well earned negativity surrounding the current dismal situation and our joke of a coach and I just thought it might be fun to speculate about what might happen in an alternate universe.
     
  2. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    It could not be much worse than it is.
     
  3. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    Well, Bruce Arena would've stuck around as coach for a bit longer, and probably would've been hailed as a genius and savior.

    First scenario - we earn a playoff spot against Australia. Home and away legs. Would we have won it? .... I'm not sure. Australia weren't exactly world-beaters and not the most technical, but they were well-organized and tactically solid. Arena would've been out-though and out-strategized. I think, having qualified, he would've fallen further into his bad habits of assuming that, basically, tactics are bullshit.

    I think we probably would've won or drawn at home, and lost away. It would've come down to how many individual moments of brilliance that Pulisic (and maybe Dempsey) was able to pull out and whether that would produce enough goals to overcome the difference.

    I also think that watching Aaron Mooy versus Michael Bradley in midfield would've been really, really fun to watch, as Bradley faced off against his doppelganger from down under. (That said, Mooy would've run circles around Bradley).


    Second scenario - we qualified in Panama's place, and get drawn with Belgium, England, and Tunisia.

    We would've been pummeled. Belgium would've gutted us entirely. England would've kicked us up and down the pitch.

    And then we'd discover that when your head coach is the kind of guy who considers Dave Sarachan to be a tactical genius, then even Tunisia will be able to destroy you. People thought it was embarrassing how Panama lost all 3 games - we would've been absolutely shredded.

    Arena ... might've still kept his job, to be honest. The same factors that led to Sarachan becoming one of the USMNT's longest-tenured coaches might've led to Arena being retained despite the catastrophic results.
     
  4. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Bruce Arena only would've been praised as a savior by people who are just as dishonest as the ones who claim that Arena's results were catastrophic.

    Arena was 10-2-6 in his second tenure. He won a Gold Cup and was 1 point away in only 8 games of qualifying for the World Cup. If he had gotten 1 point in any of the other 7 games, or even had a point lost by an opponent in any of their 10 games then they would've qualified.

    And what math are you using to claim that Sarachan was one of the longest tenured USMNT coaches?

    A lot to pick apart in your post.
     
  5. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just wait until the USA misses Qatar 2022.
     
  6. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    If they listen to fans then that's possible.

    Otherwise, it's very unlikely.

    Think about all the charges of stupidity and incompetence that fans made about the federation and yet they were clearly one of the 3 best teams in the Hex in 2017, finished with 3rd best goal difference and needed a calamity of events to occur in order to miss qualification by 1 point.
     
  7. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They missed qualification exactly because of the federation's stupidity and incompetence!
     
  8. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Could you be more specific? All I see are cliches like this.

    I blame players/coaches for their performance.
     
  9. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I hoped by starting this thread that we could have a little interesting light speculation about a "what if" situation. But I guess I should have realized that people would use it to push their agenda about what is actually happening and the causes thereof.

    I am about as disappointed by the posters that have polluted what was intended to be just some light discussion as I am by what the national team has been doing.

    I know it probably will not happen but I would like a generous moderator to close this now useless thread.
     
  10. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Scheduling Costa Rica game in New York City area.
     
  11. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    While I agree that it was a dumb move, I don't think it was the reason we failed to get one point out of it.
     
    CMeszt repped this.
  12. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    I suppose I consider missing out on the World Cup in a CONCACAF to be somewhat disastrous. A 3-2-3 in competitive matches is less than impressive.

    And no, I don't really count a Gold Cup in during a WC qualification year as anything other than elevated friendlies.

    You're right, if he'd even had 1 more point against any of the other opponents. Like, maybe, if he'd gotten a single win in any of the away games. Maybe, if he'd gotten more than 3 wins out of 6 fixtures against the worst 3 teams in the Hex.

    But then again, if you get nothing more than 11 points out of a possible 24 - you probably don't deserve to finish in the top half of the Hex.


    In terms of number of matches in charge, Dave Sarachan was head coach for 12 matches. That's good for the 10th-most in US MNT history. This is out of 37 head coaches total. Sure, many of those 37 were interim - but then again....
     
  13. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    The term used was catastrophic not less than impressive.

    And Arena had to qualify with only 8 games in hand and nearly did.
     
  14. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    I'm not quite sure what you're sensibilities have to do with it. The Gold Cup is not composed of elevated friendlies. No matter what you think.

    That's what people do all the time to bolster their preconceived notion: all the games that were won didn't really matter and all the games that were lost were the most important.
     
  15. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Of course, as I said, any number of permutations could've gotten them the 1 point they needed.

    The old adage of win your home matches and draw on the road holds: the real issue was losing to Costa Rica and then not getting a point against Trinidad.

    Arena was 10-0-5 in every other match.

    so of course people think he's a loser.
     
  16. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    He got 12 points out of 24 which is half.

    That puts him on pace to get 15 points out of 10 games which was more than enough to qualify.
     
  17. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Again, term used was longest. He was the interim coach for a year.

    And for you to use a bunch of part-time coaches 100 years ago is dishonest.

    Dave Sarachan was not one of the longest serving coaches in USMNT history.
     
  18. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    Okay, so I should avoid comic understatement:

    Not qualifying for the World Cup out of CONCACAF, one of the most top-heavy confederations, when you are the United States is very, very, very, very bad. Like, an Olympic sprinter finishing 5th in a race against 2 other sprinters, 2 normal dudes, and 1 guy with a limp. Yes, if said sprinter had just finished 1 second faster, he would've been 4th - but that still would've been bad.

    "Only" 8 games? There are "only" 10 fixtures total in the Hex. And those 2 missing fixtures were against Costa Rica and Mexico, the two toughest opponents - games he certainly would not have won. And no disrespect to the Panamanians, the Hondurans, and the Trinidadians & Tobagons - but 6 of those games were against Panama, Honduras, and Trinidad & Tobago. 18 possible points against opponents on whom the USA should've feasted - and he came away with 3 wins and 11 points. This is pathetic.

    You are correct - he had 12 points out of 24. That's still garbage when you are the goddamned United States in goddamned CONCACAF.

    And no, I don't think he would've gotten 15 points out of 30, since those two additional fixtures were against Mexico and Costa Rica. I think he'd have gotten 1 point if he was lucky.


    My position is that "nearly" qualifying is garbage. The USA, on no measures, should be struggling to barely scrape by in CONCACAF.

    I am bewildered by your desire to defend Arena. But let's leave things here - our positions clearly demarcated - and move on. This is derailing the original purpose of the thread, which wasn't meant to be so contentious.
     
    gunnerfan7 repped this.
  19. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Totally agree.

    This is not a point of contention.
     
  20. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Yeah, and those two games are significant.

    This shouldn't be a point of contention either.
     
  21. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    You're just making this up.

    We were unbeaten against Mexico in home Hex matches until the last cycle, including 2-0 under Bruce Arena.

    The outlier was the last lost. So to say we certainly would not have won is just dishonesty in order to make your preconceived notion come right.
     
  22. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    You're not making any points here.

    The goal is to qualify not live up to some standard that each person decides upon for themselves.
     
  23. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    1 point would have been enough to get into the playoff.

    So what's your point, again?
     
  24. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    So your initial position was that not qualifying is garbage. Now it's that nearly qualifying is garbage.

    So you would've complained regardless, it seems.
     
  25. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    I know the facts about his tenure and I know what outliers look like.

    I also don't get off on calling everybody losers and failures.
     

Share This Page