A list of all time great players, and the pantheon of greatest ever

The next group of finishers...

Hans Krankl is an interesting case who I think has enough qualifications for all time great. I see 76/77, 77/78, and 78/79 as clearly world class seasons. After that it is not so easy to parse but there are many options for two more seasons with 74/75, 75/76, 79/80, 80/81, 84/85 all options. I think his peak from 77-79 qualifies with high Ballon d'Or voting and performances in Europe for Barcelona and with Austria. As for delivering big performances I think he does so in the World Cup in 78 and in a few European tournaments although there are a lot of empty tournament performances in Europe as well.

Preben Elkjaer Larsen I think is an underrated player who qualifies despite a smaller profile. I think he has a solid five season run of world class seasons from 83-87 with a few more seasons between 79 and 82 and possibly 88 that may qualify. His peak from 84 to 86 with multiple excellent major tournament performances for Denmark and a star performance winning the most talent league in the world for a smaller team easily qualify along the with high Ballon d'Or voting.

Ian Rush is an interesting case as well who has the issues of playing for a small nation and having a portion of his career with no available European Competition. I think 83-87 is a comfortable five season run of WC seasons with 90 and 91 being options as well. His peak with Liverpool in the European Cup in the mid 80s qualifies. He comes through with Liverpool in the European Cup and has some very good performances for Wales vs big nations despite narrowly missing qualification.

Rudi Voller I think qualifies. I think he is very comfortable on the longevity side of things with 7 to 8 word class seasons by my opinion. Peak is a little more uncertainty, as he does not have one run where he really rises to high levels in Ballon d'Or voting for example. I think he is a difference making and game winning player for Roma and Werder. With Germany I am not sure he is ever really the star player of the team but usually jut very good? He delivers two excellent European runs late in his career in 91 and 93 and has a long productive run with Germany, but I am unsure about him delivering big performance in the high leverage games.

Careca seems a more sure case than some of the player lister above. He is comfortable in world class seasons with 83, 85, 86, 88, 89, 90 and 92 all working among other options like 82 and 87. At his peak he was the star player for a strong Brazil side in 86 and South American FOTY before performing very well in Europe's strongest league. He delivers big performances for Brazil in 83, 85, and 86 and has a strong record for Napoli.

Butragueno has a strong six seasons run from 84/85 to 89/90 with lots of success for club and country, big performances in the major tournaments, high Ballon d'Or voting, and signature performance in high leverage knock out matches. He also has some additional longevity past 1990 and relatively comfortably satisfies the criteria.

Gary Lineker has a strong career despite missing out on some major chances in European Competition during his prime. Ge has six world class seasons at least and big performances in major tournaments and high profile internationals. He is comfortable qualifying

The last player I will mention in this group is Hugo Sanchez. His longevity is a solid six seasons. I feel his peak is strong as Real Madrid's star player and really exceptional goal scoring records. The only place he may have issues is delivering internationally. With Mexico he accomplishes little but I have given leeway to other players with strong European records who have underwhelming national team careers. He record in Europe is stronger than I first thought, as Real Madrid are disappointed to never make the European Cup final during this run. Has has some fantastic performances in the latter stages of the 86 UEFA Cup win, especially the second leg win vs Inter where he has 2 goals and 2 assists delivering a 5-1 win and overturning a two goal first leg deficit. In the European Cup he scores vs a number of top sides in Porto, Bayern, PSV, and AC Milan. His record in Europe does not stack up to other players who needed to make up for a sub par international career like Del Piero or Daglish. He is more comparable to what Rush accomplishes with Liverpool, but Rush misses some chances in Europe for reasons outside his control and has some more strong national team performances than Sanchez so I am still a bit up in the air on this one. I think the difference between Rush/Sanchez and Daglish/Del Piero is Daglish and Del Piero have more to make up for in my eyes because their underwhelming international careers are in spite of playing for very talented nations where they fail to make a strong impression despite many opportunities whereas Rush/Sanchez just play for nations who are far less talented than most players in consideration for this list.

 

The next group of finishers up will be players who spanned the late 80s and early 90s

First up is Marco van Basten who lacks the longevity to make the pantheon but is more than well enough qualified in peak level and delivering in big international matches for that level, putting him in the intermediate category. He has six to seven world class seasons in my view. I do not feel the need to list his credentials for peak and big game performance, his skill, standing, and achievement are obvious. The deciding factor between finishers "At the Gates" vs finishers in the pantheon is longevity. Muller, Nordahl, and Cristiano all have 11 or more world class seasons in my eyes. All of the players at the level below have 7-8 world class seasons. Some also have career inconsistencies that lead to that lack of longevity. In other positions longevity will not always be a limiting factor. Defenders for example have significantly more players with 10+ world class seasons. The limiting factor for defenders is peak, that extra bit of skill and influence that can cause that type of player to not just one of the best defenders in the world but the best players in the world period, something uncommon for that role. There are many finishers ranked as at the gates (van Basten, Eusebio, Ronaldo) or even all time great (Romario, Leonidas, Charles, Erico) that have a peak level good enough to make the pantheon but lack another criteria, usually longevity.

Jean Pierre Papin is a player whose candidacy for all time great I have struggled with, but as of now I have him in. His peak level is clearly high enough to make all time great, it is the other two categories he has questions in.

Longevity: 89/90, 90/91, and 91/92 are all undoubtedly world class season. I think he is good for 88/89 as well where he is already accumulating many votes in Ballon d'Or and Onze d'Or etc. The other options I see for another season to make five are 87/88, 85/86, or 92/93. In 85/86 he has a strong season in Belgium but he is in and out of the team for France despite some decent performances in the WC, probably not a WC player yet. In 87/88 he has his first solid run in European competition make the SF of the CWC but is still not a locked in starter for the national team. In 92/93 he is in and out of the Milan team, scoring decently while playing, and is still playing well in the national team and scoring important goals. If I am being honest he really probably only has four world class seasons, not sure if any of these three qualify.

Delivering in big games: He struggles a bit here for France with a good record against top teams in qualifiers and friendlies during his pew peak seasons, but is the star player of the team that fails to qualify for two world cups despite a talented group of players. He obviously delivers more confidently for Marseille winning three straight European Cup top scorer titles.

Gianluca Vialli is the final player from this time making all time great. I put him at a comfortably seven WC seasons and his peak is clearly enough for all time great in my eyes. his one area of question is around the idea of delivering at the highest level where he has a disappointing career for the national team. He is one of those players alongside someone like Del Piero or Dalglish who despite having a disappointing national career despite many opportunities is so overwhelmingly qualified in continental competitions he makes up for it. Vialli reaches seven European finals as a key player, three Cup Winners Cups (89, 90, and 98), two UEFA Cups (93 and 95), and two European Cups (92 and 96).

 

90s Finishers

I will first start with Romario who is a difficult case. I currently have him at All Time Great level, and my question is not whether or not he might be able to move up to the next level (something his reputation suggests), but whether or not he makes all time great at all. Identifying world class seasons is not as easy as one would think. I think 88/89 is a season qualifies as he is FOTY with PSV and scoring in some important internationals. I also think that 92/93 and 93/94 are clearly in as his best seasons with broad success and high peak. Outside of those three clear WC seasons it is not simple to find more seasons that qualify. I do not think any seasons from Brazil from 1988 and earlier qualify, he is playing a few internationals against weaker teams and really only scoring in regional leagues. The other two seasons need to come from the 89/90 to 91/92 three season run with PSV or his post 1994 career. The problem with a world class season in 89/90, 90/91, or 91/92 is lack lack of broader exposure. He is not part of the national team and is not accomplishing anything meaningful in Europe with PSV. In 89/90 he top scorer in the champions league and on the most superficial level that seems like his best case. The top scorer title is overrated considering PSV only made the third round and Romario misses the tie they get knocked out in vs Bayern, but he does score a hat trick vs a good team in Steaua Bucuresti. The best option for a world class season after 1994 is clearly 1997. Although nothing of note is happening during the club season the prolific nature of his campaign with Brazil and scoring vs some strong teams seems like enough. So I would say 89, 90, 93, 94, 97 can qualify for five seasons, but it is very close. I am not convinced by 2000. Obviously his peak is the one area he does not have issue qualifying for all time great or even higher. Delivering in big matches is not really straight forward, he failed to really ever come through in big European club matches when he had the chance. This criteria relies on what he did for Brazil, which is probably enough to make all time great, but not a higher level.

Stoichkov is comfortable at all time great and his only question is the possibility of moving up to the intermediate level. My idea for the intermediate level is that I really think they are super close to a pantheon player but just barely short in one area. Stoichkov's accomplishments in international/European games qualifies for the pantheon in my eyes, succeeding in the European Cup with Barca on multiple seasons and bringing Bulgaria up to a height not seen before. His peak is close to a pantheon player. His longevity is probably six seasons maybe seven at a max. I don't think he can seriously be considered for the pantheon so I have left him at all time great, not moved him up to "At the Gates".

Klinsmann is comfortable at all time great but I have not given any thought for a higher level, he fits well in this spot.

George Weah is an interesting case who I thinks is relatively comfortable at all time great. His international career is difficult to assess playing with a smaller African nation. At the club level I think he has 6 to 7 world class seasons and good contribution in European competitions. Obviously the perception of his peak easily qualifies for all time great.

Alan Shearer is not straight forward of a case to make all time great as I would have thought. I struggled to find 5 world class seasons, as his contribution at a high level for England takes place in a relatively short span of time, and he does not have a lot of important contributions in Europe. I think 94/95, 95/96, and 96/97 all work relatively well as world class seasons, although there is not a lot of none domestic production in 94/95, the domestic production is exceptionally impressive. Looking at 93/94 he has the domestic goal scoring numbers but with no important production for the national team or in Europe it is hard to make an allowance for a second world class season without these type of contributions when it is not a title winning unanimous POTY type of situation. I think 99/00 is a decent season, so maybe with 94, 95, 96, 97, and 00 you can get to five seasons but it is questionable. His peak is definitely all time great level or even a little higher. Looking at his contribution at the highest levels we are a little short here as well. He was only a difference making game winning player for England in 96 and 97, before that time he is disappointing and after that time he was just one of many solid players but not longer a star game winning player. He also has not real meaningful European production. I think there is a case for him to be removed from all time great.

Suker cuts it close on longevity with only five WC seasons in my eyes from 94-98, but overall I think he is a good candidate. He has multiple very strong international tournaments and a high club peak. Also one of the reasons he does not have more WC seasons is beyond his control as internationals are not available to him. His European production is not super impressive but his consistency and longevity with the national team are very strong despite the issue out of his control in the first half of his career.

Batistuta I think sits in a similar place to Klinsmann, comfortable at all time great but lacks a few components to move higher, good longevity, peak, and production but not outstanding in any of those areas.

 

Going to keep things moving in an effort to get all my thoughts on these players down so I can make some revisions for the finishers group.

Ronaldo: I have him "At the Gates" with all the required achievements outside of longevity for the pantheon. His peak is unquestionably pantheon level, no need to address that. As far as longevity goes I have him at 6 to 8 WC seasons with 94/95, 96/97, 97/98, 02/03, 03/04, 04/05 plus 98/99 and 01/02 as quasi seasons with great national team performances balancing club seasons with injury issues. Looking at his contribution at all levels what he did with Brazil satisfies criteria for any level. Sometimes people talk about his issues not have great CL runs in his career, but part of that is down to chance with excellent title winning years in Europe in 97 and 98 in the CWC and UC. Him missing out on big CL runs is more a matter of chance with his teams not qualifying for the CL in 97 or 98, otherwise I am sure he would have made a big difference in those years. He is often compared to Romario but in my eyes he has far better consistency and balanced achievement. Ronaldo's only fault is being injured, Romario repeatedly is left out of the national team and plays most of his club career away from meaningful competition. Leaving Ronaldo out of the national team would be unthinkable, he was the Pele of his generation with some serious injuries thrown in. He was the national team, I am not sure what to compare Romario to, but their is no way Ronaldo could be benched by a player like Careca. Romario was not the Pele of his generation, he was the talented enigma that had a big moment in 1994.

Christian Vieri was a player who I struggled with, I currently have him at all time great but I have wavered multiple times and may drop him. Longevity I have him at 97/98, 98/99, 01/02, 02/03, and 03/04 with maybe a case for one more season in 96/97, but 03/04 is a bit borderline as well so 5 or 6 season with only four being totally locked in. Peak is not a sure thing in my eyes, being dropped from the national team during his prime years for a relatively limited player like Inzaghi does not speak well for a high peak. His Ballon d'Or voting history is not very compelling. He does have two good world cups on his side, but I would say they are just good not great. Also limited European production, it is not bad but again not especially compelling either. I am leaning towards dropping him.

Michael Owen does ok with longevity with I think 6 solid seasons in 97/98, 98/99, 00/01, 01/02, and 02/03 with possible cases for two more seasons. Ballon d'Or voting indicates a peak that is clearly adequate for all time great status. As far as delivering on the highest level it is a mixed bag. He scores some good goals in major tournaments but never really has a great tournament as a whole with a TOTT type of performance, with the closest being 1998. In Europe the goal scoring record is not that great and there are quite a few empty campaigns. As I said before I am on the fence with him. For a player with the needed longevity and a Ballon d'Or win and another top five finish that seems to be a pretty strong case on its surface. Any more organized thoughts on why he does not stand up to his Ballon d'Or voting record would be appreciated. I personally do not really understand why he won in 2001 over a few different players but that does not mean he did not deserve it.

Raul I think is a clear cut case for all time great. The record with the national team in big tournaments leaves something to be desired but his outstanding and consistent record in the Champions League more than makes up for it. Longevity and Peak are excellent.

Basically everything I said for Raul could be true for Shevchenko.

Ruud van Nistelrooy also easily makes all time great, a little less longevity than the two players above but a better career for the national team.

I have left Crespo out, who has issues with longevity and consistency. Also struggles to be first choice with the national team and a number of high profile clubs.

 

And finally the modern players

I think Eto'o is a clear cut case being all time great with 7 WC seasons and a strong record in the CL.

Drogba and Villa cut it a little close on longevity but I think both make it for all time great with Drogba having a fantastic CL record and Villa a fantastic record for Spain.

I with not go through all of Cristiano Ronaldo's criteria, needless to say I think he satisfies them all quite easily to make the pantheon.

Three players here have a me a little unsure of ranking them. They are all without question all time great and my question is whether or not they belong at a higher level in Henry, Suarez, and Lewandowski. 4

I will try to summarize the three criteria for each.

Longevity

Henry: Nine world class seasons with maybe a case for one more. 97/98, 99/00, 00/01, 01/02, 02/03, 03/04, 04/05, 05/06, 08/09.

Suarez: Nine to maybe eleven world class seasons, unlikely to to add more but possible. 08/09?, 09/10, 10/11, 11/12, 12/13, 13/14, 14/15, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18, 20/21?

Lewandowski: Nine world class seasons maybe ten with the likelihood of adding more. 11/12, 12/13, 13/14, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18, 18/19, 19/20, 20/21

All three have enough longevity to qualify for the pantheon in my eyes with maybe Henry's slightly closer to limiting and more on par with the "At the Gates players".

Peak

Henry: On an aesthetic and skill examination he is the one who probably rates the best in this category. His Ballon d'Or voting does not quite reflect this with no outright wins but five top five finishes. So looking at the idea of being considered the best player in the world it is not clear cut but he is in the conversation.

Suarez: Very similar to Henry, very skilled playmaker and goal scorer etc. Does not get Ballon d'Or votes as consistently. Like Henry his really dominant club seasons where he had a casefor the best club season in the world coincided with a subpar international tournament hurting his chances of winning the trophy. He is similar to Henry but I think slightly behind if anything.

Lewandowski: I would say a little behind the other two but again right in that gray area of being considered the best player in the world. Would have possibly won the Ballon d'Or in 2020 if it was given but I don't think this club campaign was any better than Suarez or Henry's best club seasons. Skill and impact wise I think he is a little bit below the other two.

Contributing at the highest level

Henry: He is an interesting case. On the club level he has two really great CL runs in 06 and 09 but also no really dominating signature performances I would put on the level that players rated "At the Gates" have like van Basten or Eusebio. Overall I would say he has significant CL/UC performances in 97/98, 99/00, 00/01, 01/02, 03/04, 05/06, and 08/09 and maybe a few others. Even in campaigns where Arsenal fails he generally scores vs good opponents and has a good personal level but the team success is not present. I would say his really strong CL performances are Deportivo home 99/00, Bayern home 00/01, Roma away 02/03, Inter away 03/04, Real Madrid away 05/06, Juventus home 05/06, Lyon home 08/09, and Bayern home 08/09. Not a lot of these matches are in the really high leveraged later stages and I would also say he was disappointing to a degree in a number of the matches result in Arsenal's elimination. On the national team side of things we again have uncertainty in my eyes. He has an excellent Euro 2000 one of the best handful of players in the tournament in my opinion. After that in his prime tournaments of 02, 04, and 06 (and 08 for that matter) he never really has a dominant or even forceful performance. In 06 he is good but definitely not dominant. In 02 and 04 he very disappointing based on expectations. Similar to his CL career when you look at it as a whole there is a lot their, he won the Euros, the WC and made another WC final, but I would say that his personal level for France is far below his domestic form, as I would also say about a fair number of his CL performances, they were generally not as good as his domestic form.

Suarez: I would say Suarez does not have as many significant CL campaigns as Henry, but does have two really good runs in 14/15 and 15/16, with 14/15 eclipsing anything Henry achieved when looking at decisive late stage performances. After the 15/16 campaign his production has taken a pretty big dip but he still does have some significant performances scatter throughout e.g. Chelsea home 17/18, Roma home 17/18, and Liverpool home 18/19. With the national team he misses some prime tournaments due to injury. He like Henry has some of his best performances pre prime in 2010 and 2011. Then his prime tournaments are damaged by injuries or good but not great. He has some individual games where he is very good but never puts up the type of performance seen by players rated ahead of him.

Lewandowski: His CL career is clearly excellent but his top performances vs big clubs in knockouts are not quite as numerous as you might think, with the big ones being vs Real in 2013 and vs Chelsea and Barcelona in 2020. Outside of that there are some more disappointing performances, but overall it is clearly a strong CL career. His international career is hard to evaluate but I wish he had a bit more here. Other great players have been able to elevate a smaller country and has some relevant/great tournament runs. Lewandowski has never had his Stoichkov 94, Hagi 94, Lato 74 type of moment for Poland. In fact other than the most recent Euro I have been disappointed with his personal inability to impose himself on the game. This past Euro was the the only time you think that he is a great player on a less talented team, all the other tournaments he does not even stand out among his teammates.

Bottom line I think is all three players are borderline on peak for the next level up, and when you compare there international/European exploits to the players above them they do not seem to match up. None of these three have Eusebio 65, 66, van Basten 88, or 89 level performances in big knockout tournaments.

 

So here is my original list, after writing it all down and thinking about it some more I have bolded players I am considering adjusting.

Pantheon

Nordahl, Gunnar
Muller, Gerd
Ronaldo, Cristiano

At the Gates

Gallacher, Hughie
Ademir de Menezes
Kocsis, Sandor
Eusebio
van Basten, Marco
Ronaldo

All Time Great

Bloomer, Steve
Schlosser, Imre
Friedenriech, Arthur
Libonatti, Julio
Tarasconi, Domingo
Rydell, Sven
Takacs, Jozsef
Hofmann, Richard
Jorgensen, Pauli
Juve, Jorgen
Schiavo, Angelo (Possible Removal)
Varallo, Francisco
Langara, Isidoro
Leonidas da Silva
Piola, Silvio
Erico, Arsenio
Varela, Severino
Bican, Josef
Fernandez, Teodoro
Lawton, Tommy
Labruna, Angel
Mostensen, Stan
Zarra, Telmo (Possible Removal)
Mermans, Jef
Nyers, Istvan
Miguez, Oscar
Lofthouse, Nat (Possible Removal)
Aguas, Jose
Charles, John
Evaristo
Ivanov, Valentin
Tichy, Lajos
Altafini, Jose
Seeler, Uwe
Spencer, Alberto
Greaves, Jimmy
Artime, Luis
Bene, Ferenc
Kindvall, Ove (Possible Removal)
Riva, Luigi
Heynckes, Jupp
Krankl, Hans
Elkjaer Larsen, Preben
Rush, Ian
Voller, Rudi (Possible Removal)
Careca
Butragueno, Emilio
Lineker, Gary
Sanchez, Hugo (Possible Removal)
Papin, Jean Pierre (Possible Removal)
Vialli, Gianluca
Romario
Stoichkov, Hristo
Klinsmann, Jurgen
Weah, George
Shearer, Alan (Possible Removal)
Suker, Davor
Batistuta, Gabriel
Vieri, Christian (Possible Removal)
Owen, Michael (Possible Removal)
Raul
Shevchenko, Andriy
Henry, Thierry
van Nistelrooy, Ruud
Eto'o, Samuel
Drogba, Didier
Villa, David
Suarez, Luis
Lewandowski, Robert

 

I am removing all the players listed above plus Krankl. Looking at Krankl more and more I do not think he has enough relevant accomplishments outside of that three season run from 77-79. New List.

Pantheon

Nordahl, Gunnar
Muller, Gerd
Ronaldo, Cristiano

At the Gates

Gallacher, Hughie
Ademir de Menezes
Kocsis, Sandor
Eusebio
van Basten, Marco
Ronaldo

All Time Great

Bloomer, Steve
Schlosser, Imre
Friedenriech, Arthur
Libonatti, Julio
Tarasconi, Domingo
Rydell, Sven
Takacs, Jozsef
Hofmann, Richard
Jorgensen, Pauli
Juve, Jorgen
Varallo, Francisco
Langara, Isidoro
Leonidas da Silva
Piola, Silvio
Erico, Arsenio
Varela, Severino
Bican, Josef
Fernandez, Teodoro
Lawton, Tommy
Labruna, Angel
Mostensen, Stan
Mermans, Jef
Nyers, Istvan
Miguez, Oscar
Aguas, Jose
Charles, John
Evaristo
Ivanov, Valentin
Tichy, Lajos
Altafini, Jose
Seeler, Uwe
Spencer, Alberto
Greaves, Jimmy
Artime, Luis
Bene, Ferenc
Riva, Luigi
Heynckes, Jupp
Elkjaer Larsen, Preben
Rush, Ian
Careca
Butragueno, Emilio
Lineker, Gary
Vialli, Gianluca
Romario
Stoichkov, Hristo
Klinsmann, Jurgen
Weah, George
Suker, Davor
Batistuta, Gabriel
Raul
Shevchenko, Andriy
Henry, Thierry
van Nistelrooy, Ruud
Eto'o, Samuel
Drogba, Didier
Villa, David
Suarez, Luis
Lewandowski, Robert

 

Anyone with thoughts on the finisher group that would be welcome, I feel better about it now that players seem much more "of a kind" with other players on their level.

The next group of players I will work my way through is Finishers/Creators. These are players who spend roughly equal amounts of time both finishing and creating offensive moves. This will include the classic archetypes of this position like the ponta de lanca second striker position typified by Pele or Puskas, the playmaking center forward like Di Stefano or Messi, as well as direct wide players who spend a lot of time getting in the box like Kurt Hamrin (a lot of these types of wide players also can move to inside forward like Bastin, Jairzinho, or Finney). Most of these players are star attackers or focal points of their team, and with so many of the most talented players ending up in this type of role this list may be a little bit longer than some of the others roles/positions.

Pantheon

Puskas, Ferenc
Di Stefano, Alfredo
Pele
Cruyff, Johan
Messi, Lionel

At the Gates

Goodall, John
Scarone, Hectore
Sindelar, Matthias
Meazza, Giuseppe
Sarosi, Gyorgi
Moreno, Jose Manuel
Hidegkuti, Nandor
Hamrin, Kurt
Albert, Florian
Jairzinho
Zico

All Time Great

McNiel, Henry
Smith, Gilbert
Piendibene, Jose
Romano, Angel
Abegglen, Max
Baloncieri, Adolfo
Jackson, Alex
Gschweidl, Fritz
Puc, Antonin
McPhail, Bob
Zischek, Karl
Braine, Raymond
Bastin, Cliff
Brook, Eric
Nejedly, Oldrich
Smit, Kick
Walker, Tommy
Zsengeller, Gyula
Bickel, Alfred
Carter, Raich
Carlsson, Henry
Pontoni, Rene
Walter, Fritz
Gren, Gunnar
Martino, Rinaldo
Mazzola, Valentino
Jair Da Rosa
Bobek, Stjepan
Liddell, Billy
Boniperti, Giampiero
Fatton, Jacques
Finney, Tom
Wilkes, Faas
Kubala, Laszlo
Rahn, Helmut
Piantoni, Roger
Terry, Alberto
Sivori, Omar
Sanchez, Leonel
Juya, Juan
Law, Denis
Amancio
Van Himst, Paul
Mazzola, Sandro
Rocha, Pedro
Tostao
Lubanski, Wlodzimierz
Cubillas, Teofilo
Blokhin, Oleg
Lato, Grzegorz
Simonsen, Allan
Keegan, Kevin
Kempes, Mario
Dalglish, Kenny
Rummenigge, Karl-Heinz
Ceulemans, Jan
Baggio, Roberto
Bebeto
Bergkamp, Denis
Del Piero, Alessandro
Rivaldo
Muller, Thomas
Bale, Gareth
Griezmann, Antoine
Neymar
Salah, Mohamed

 

I am going to start going through the finisher/creative players starting off with the pre WWI players.

Henry McNiel was the best player of the 1870s and I believe one of only two player who I included at all time great from this first era of football. He is the signature player for Queen's Park and Scotland, the two dominant teams of the era, who is front and center for their most famous victories as well as having longevity beyond that of his contemporaries as a winger and inside forward. I would say McNiel is equivalent to Goodall, who makes the next level up, in longevity, peak, and achievement, but I am unwilling to include a player from this era before many league systems were even established and the pool of competition was so shallow in the higher levels.

John Goodall is one of only a handful of players from the pre WWI era to make a level beyond all time great, as I currently have him at "At the Gates". He really has the complete career, being the star player of the best club side of this time in Preston North End, and one of the two key players for England's team that went 20 games unbeaten in the 1890s. He has roughly 8 WC seasons. His peak at Preston North End was impressive, where he was seen as a unique player who was a complete center forward who was one of the teams primary playmakers and organizers as well as top scorer. He is also excellent for England delivering in the biggest games vs Scotland, staring in famous wins in 1888, 1891, 1892, and 1895. His longevity is not enough for the pantheon despite his other criteria being adequate.

GO Smith took what John Goodall had started with the complete center forward and took it a step further, playing the position behind the other forwards and relying complete on skill, dribbling, and passing to be seen as the first archetype of the false 9 position. His peak can be seen as among the very best pre WWI players, as he was rated as the best of the famous English forwards by a number of observers of the time. Despite his high peak he lacks in longevity and achievement, never playing a full league schedule, only challenge matches with Corinthians and internationals, and has only 6-7 seasons of WC performance.

Jose Piendibene is the only South American player from the pre WWI era to make all time great. He is basically the equivalent to Schlosser in continental Europe from this time. They are both unanimously seen as the best players of their region and era with excellent longevity, and as with Britain in the 1870s, I only want the very best player from eras/regions where football is still just beginning to develop. Piendebene is another player who falls into the playmaking center forward archetype.

 

1920s directors of the attack who qualified

Angel Romano has a long career, spanning through the prime of Piendebene in the 1910s to Scarone in the 1920s. It is hard to categorize him in a role, as he plays every spot on the forward line. He may have as many as 10 world class seasons. His peak seemed to come right around 1918 to 1920 taking the role of Uruguay's star player between the primes of Piendebene and Scarone, acting as more of a supporting or secondary star player to both before and after. He delivered many high level performances for Uruguay. He is comfortable as all time great but not really in contention for a higher level.

Hectore Scarone is currently ranked as "At the Gates" and I have given him serious pantheon consideration. I would rate him at least 10 world class seasons maybe more for longevity (17, 18, 19, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30). He has clearly performs in the biggest games for Uruguay repeatedly in big tournaments. His peak level is very high, but I have some issues determining how high. In 1924 for example it is clear Andrade shines brighter. By 1930 he is older and is more of a role player. In 1928 he scores the tournament winning goal but is rotated among a group of forwards, not playing every game. So there are some small doubts about consistency and peak that keep me from putting him in the pantheon, as I really only want total home run unquestionable cases at that level, but Scarone is close.

Max Abegglen seems to have a strong case for all time great. Longevity is no issue with at least 8 world class seasons. He performs in big games, with the 1924 Olympics as a high profile showcase of his quality. I was a little unsure of his peak levels but some good polls for the greatest Swiss player ever place him in the top 3, much higher than his brother, who I did not include.

Adolfo Baloncieri is among the first Italian players to make all time great. He was a playmaking inside forward of often dropped into the midfield to organize, but was also capable of reaching top scorer number in league and tournament settings. At his peak I think he was Italy's first truly great player excelling at the 1928 Olympics and leading Italy from irrelevance in the early 1920s to the best team in the world by 1930, when he was playing with Meazza and Orsi demolishing Hungary 5 - 0. He consistently delivered for Italy in big internationals once the team improved in the late 1920s. He has at least 6 years of world class performance. He is comfortable as all time great but not really in contention for a higher level.

The final player of the 1920s I will include is the great goal scoring Scottish winger in Alex Jackson. He was famously in the box to finish three Alan Morton crosses in the 1928 Wembley Wizards game. From 1926 to 1930 he was the dominant international player with Scotland, and the dominant club player with Huddersfield Town leading them to multiple FA Cups finals and a league title. I think his peak would qualify as the best player in the world alongside teammates Morton and Gallacher. For peak and delivering in big games I think he qualifies for the pantheon, but he only meets 5 seasons of longevity, keeping at all time great level.

 

There a a glut of players that qualify playing in the interwar era in Europe, which is one of the reasons I see it as an golden era for European Football. Lots of highly talented attacking footballers capable of creating and scoring, many of them combining in a single national team to great effect. There are so many European players from this era that I question if this can be correct but I feel like their qualifications a strong. I will probably take a few post to get through all the players.

First the Austrians

Karl Zischek was a dynamic goal scoring winger with Austria who had a fantastic record with the national team and excellent longevity who qualifies for all time great. He had WC seasons in 30/31, 31/32, 32/33, 33/34, 34/35, and 35/36. He could have had more WC seasons but he refused to play for Germany, but was then capped for Austria post war all the way in 1945 post war. He had standout performances vs some of the best teams in the world (brace in 5-0 vs Scotland, 1 goal in 6-0 at Germany, brace in 4-3 loss at England, hat trick in 4-2 win at Italy among others). He was a very direct winger, not known for his technical ability or dribbling but for his strength, speed, direct running into the box, headers, and one touch passes.

Fritz Gschweidl is in my opinion the most underrated European player from this era. He was the star player and playmaking center forward for First Vienna, one of Austria's great teams that Gschweidl led to multiple strong Mitropa Cup runs and one title. He was the main player of the Austrian team while Sindelar was out of favor, and then moved to inside forward to play with Sindelar (the two players seemed to cannibalize each others opportunities for the national team in the 1920s before eventually being played together not to mention compete with Hans Horvath another excellent player of similar style). The two players combining their ability to get forward or drop deeper created an unpredictable and dynamic synergy that reminds me of the descriptions of Pele and Tostao playing together for Brazil. Gschweidl had world class seasons in 24/25, 27/28, 28/29, 29/30, 30/31, 32/33, and 34/35. The stats on Gschweidl and Sindelar playing together are amazing. I think a major part of the reason for Austria's disappointing performance in the 1934 world cup was Gschweidl's injury and and increasing age. The front three where he and Sindelar combined with a direct inside forward like Schall or Bican was magic. Gschweidl and Sindelar played together 10 times between 1931 and 33 before Gschweidl's injury issues. Austria scored 44 goals in those ten games, all against legitimate strong opposition. This scoring run is a complete anomaly for the era. Five past Scotland, six past Germany, eight past Switzerland, eight more past Hungary... Gschweidl easily qualifies for all time great in my eyes.

I have Sindelar ranked as "At the Gate". His peak seems to me to be equal to any of the pantheon players, with what he was doing at the continental level with both the national team and his club side in the Mitropa Cup. I read a lot about him and he seems to be the player of the era to me, in that his peak was the absolute best of any player at this time, and his skill and impact on a game was unrivalled. He was the Messi of his time, dribbling, passing, scoring. He had amazing performance against all the best players and teams of his time. He clearly lacks the consistency and longevity to make the pantheon in my eyes. Being left out of the national team for a significant portion of his career, and having his biggest cold spell with the national team during the 1934 world cup. I have him at 8 world class seasons.

 

The Czechs had a pair of fantastic forwards who could both score and create in Antonin Puc and Oldrich Nejedly.

Puc clearly qualifies for all time great in my eyes with many decisive performances in big Mitropa Cup and international games and excellent longevity. He played both inside forward and winger, combining excellent with Nejedly playing on the left together, with Nejedly often setting up Puc's out to in direct runs with defense splitting passes. Nejedly's arrival in the team caused Puc to move from inside left to outside left. He looks to have had as many as 10 world class seasons. He does not have the peak to push for higher levels in my opinion.

Nejedly is a player I struggled with as a player who could possibly move to above all time great, but he lacked slightly in peak and longevity. He delivers in a huge way for Czechoslovakia in big games, scoring decisive goals in wins vs Italy in 32, England in 34, a hat trick in the WC semifinal vs Germany, and another brace vs England in 1937 when the Czechs nearly beat the English in Wembley. As far as longevity goes I have him at 7 WC seasons. With peak I feel he may be slightly below Meazza, Sindelar, and Sarosi. With the Sparta Prague he seems to be outshined at times by Braine, but Nejedly does appear to be the star in the national team.

Continuing the theme of two players who play the same position combining well in the national team in a new configuration we have Cliff Bastin and Eric Brook from England qualifying for all time great. Both were left wingers for their clubs who would move to inside forward later in their careers with great success. As with Sindelar and Gschweidl they cannibalized each others caps initially before they began to play together, with one of the two moving to inside left. When played together they formed a devastating left side and interchanged position from outside to inside throughout the game, confusing defenders. This was most famously on display in the devastating first 15 minutes vs Italy in 1934 when they created three goals between them.

Brook I think comfortably makes all time great but is not in consideration beyond that. I rate him as having world class seasons in 32/33, 33/34, 34/35, 35/36, and 36/37 with possibilities for a few other season as well. He had a number of big moments for England (vs Scotland 34, Italy 34, Hungary 36) and was a key player for Manchester City winning and FA Cup and League title.

Bastin pushes closer to a higher level but I still have him at all time great. I rate him at 7 world class seasons, and a high peak, as probably England's best post WWI attacker until the arrival of Matthews and Lawton. He was one of the lynchpins of by far the best English club of the era and had decisive moments on may of England's most important games of the 30s including 3-0 vs Scotland in 34, 3-2 vs Italy in 34, 3-0 vs Germany in 35, and 6-3 at Germany in 38. He is a little short on longevity and consistency to make the next level, and his peak is great but not overwhelming enough to push him past consistancy issues like Sindelar's peak did.

 

The next pair of players in this categories comes from Scotland, in the two great inside forwards Bob McPhail and Tommy Walker. McPhail was Scotland best player of the first half of the 30s while Walker was the best of the second half. The team had its strongest run of form when the two overlapped in the middle of the decade. From 35-37 they played together four times scoring two decisive wins vs England 2-0 and 3-1, a 2-0 win vs Germany, and Scotland's best performance of the era a 3-1 win at Czechoslovakia where they were completely dominant.

Bob PcPhail was a well rounded player who started out in the mid 20s playing with Hughie Gallacher at Airdrieonians leading the small club to its most successful period ever. He then moved to Rangers where he was the clubs star player first playing with and then succeeding Morton. He was being called up for the biggest game of the year vs England as early as 1927. I would rate him with 8 world class seasons, a strong peak as the star player for Scotland and Rangers, and he was famous for decisive performances vs England in 31, 35, and 37 as well as strong performances against the top continental teams. He is comfortable at all time great.

Tommy Walker was probably seen as the 1930s Scottish player with the highest peak above McPhail. He did not have the club success McPhail did playing at the smaller Hearts. I rate his world class seasons as 34/35, 35/36, 36/37, 37/38, 38/39, and 40/41 with WWII interrupting a career that was peaking in 1938 and 39. Walker was the only player of this era for Scotland who basically played in every game for the national team once he entered the team. Even a player like McPhail was rotated in and out to a degree but Walker comes in and is undroppable. He leads Scotland to multiple victories over top continental opponents Germany, Czechs x2, Hungary, Switzerland, Netherlands and and a winning record vs rivals England at 3-1-1.

Next comes the great Hungarian center forward Gyorgy Sarosi. He is one of the three players I have rated "At the Gates" for this era and I have given him serious consideration for the pantheon. I hive him rated at world class in 31/32, 32/33, 33/34, 34/35, 35/36, 36/37, 37/38, 39/40, and 40/41 for 9 seasons. His peak was very strong as the complete footballer who played mostly as a dynamic center forward who create and score goals. he was also a ball playing center half who was an excellent marker. There are famous matches where he changes position from center forward to center half in one game, create a lead by scoring in the first half, then preserving it in the second half by marking the other teams center forward. He was considered the best player in Europe alongside Meazza and Sindelar. His performances in big games are extremely consistent and numerous. as early as 1932 and 33 when he is playing center half exclusively he is already considered one of the best at his position in the world. From 1935 to 1938 he is scoring at a massive rate for both the national team and Ferencvaros in the Mitropa cup where he is the competitions all time leading scoring. His peak came in 1937 and 1938. He won the Mitropa Cup in the summer of 1937 scoring 12 goals in 9 games playing all top level teams (R1 Slavia Prague, R2 First Vienna, R3 Austria Vienna, Final Lazio) including hat tricks in both legs of the final in October of 1937. Then starting in September of 1937 he scores in 8 consecutive internationals include 7 goals in an 8-3 win over the Czechs, and scoring in every round of the 38 world cup leading Hungary to the final. I think the thing holding him back from the pantheon is peak level. Despite all his accomplishments he does not ever seem to be rated as clearly the top European Football ahead of Sindelar or Meazza, and he also does less well than I would expect in all time greatest Hungarian player polls.

Giueseppe Meazza is the other player I have rated "At the Gates" in this era. His longevity in excellent with all ten seasons from 1930 to 39 rated as world class. His peak is very high as the complete forward playing both center forward and inside forward where he can support a player like Schiavo or Piola and organize the attack or lead the line. He is the star player of Italy, possibly the best team of the era that won two world cups. He has tons of huge performances vs top opponents, vs vs Hungary in 1930, vs Austria Vienna in the 33 Mitropa Cup Final, vs England in 1934 etc. He misses the pantheon for a couple reasons. I think he receives a little more credit than he deserves because of the team success with Italy. In both world cup wins he is just one among many very good players for Italy, he never has that starring performance on the biggest stage. I also feel like Sindelar, Sarosi, and ever Braine outperform him in the Mitropa Cup. I think "At the Gates" is a good spot for him as I am not sure his peak influence is quite enough for the pantheon.

Raymound Braine is a player I given some thought to for higher levels but I currently have at all time great. He has a strong career with Belgium and burst on to the scene in the 1928 Olympics. He them moves to Sparta Prague where he has an excellent career. I think he has the peak to move to the next level based on what he accomplished in the 1935 Mitropa Cup with a Sarosi like performance as a playmaking center forward and also moving to mark Meazza as a center half famously in the semifinal. After Sparta win the tournament it is explicitly stated that this performance put Braine on the same level as Sarosi, Meazza, and Sindelar as the top player in Europe. Consistency and longevity are a bit of an issue. It is hard to identify what seasons are world class when he only has two maybe three good Mitropa Cup runs in his six seasons with Sparta. In those other seasons he is not being capped and his only accomplishments are domestic ones in a two team league. Then with Belgium it is hard to assess world class performance as the team has such poor results, especially when he moves back to Belgium after Sparta in 1937. In the Mitropa Cup he has only one truly great performance with two other good ones, where as the players above him he is trying to join in Sarosi and Sindelar and able to achieve at least three maybe more truly great tournaments. What he accomplishes in the Mitropa Cup is equivelent of maybe slightly exceeds Meazza as Braine in 35 seems to be better than any one run from Meazza, but Meazza has the amazing career with Italy to make up for that. What would have happened if Braine had played for Italy instead of Meazza, I don't know. It seems likely Italy still would have won two world cups. Things being as they are I will keep Braine at all time great, and just look at the things he actually did instead of projecting what he could do.

The final player I have at all time great in the 1930s is Kick Smit. I have him with world class seasons in 33/34, 34/35, 35/36, 37/38, and 38/39 with possibly a few more that could count plus the war interrupting his career (he is capped post war twice in 1946). I am a little unsure of his peak and accomplishments which are difficult to assess when playing in a second tier team but I think his case for inclusion lies in the inclusion of the Scandinavian finishers from the 20s and 30s who I included at ATG, who I think Smit matches well in the criteria.

 

I am going to try to move through these at a slightly faster pace and probably not write so much about each player.

European WWII players

Zsengeller, Gyula
Bickel, Alfred
Carter, Raich
Carlsson, Henry
Walter, Fritz
Gren, Gunnar
Mazzola, Valentino

All of these players are listed as all time great. Zsengeller seems a lock for all time great. Bickel is not as famous as some players but has great longevity and achievement in the national team. I would say my question with him is only peak as he is a player of less reputation that the others, but reading old match reports he comes off very well in some of the big Swiss wins around WWII. Carter has a very strong resume after considering the wartime internationals. Carlsson seems to be a lock for inclusion with good longevity and peak and a great career for Sweden.

Mazzola is the one case here I am unsure about all time great inclusion. Peak seems appropriate with his all time standing in Italy and descriptions of his ability. He is good for Italy in the games he has a chance to play. Overall though I do not rate the Grand Torino based Italy team that highly. Their reputation would make you think they were a level above their continental European counterpoints, but their results seems to put them on a similar level to the other top continental teams of the time, not above them. And then there is the longevity issue. He really only has four seasons where he is contributing in an important way to the national team, but again this is not his fault with WWII taking away chances for more games. After he breaks out in 41/42 leading Italy to two 4-0 wins vs Spain and Croatia he has no internationals available to him in 42/43, 43/44, or 44/45. I think he is appropriate for all time great.

The final two players are Gren and Walter, players who I am unsure as to their possible status for a higher level. Gren has the longevity and career achievement at all levels, the issue for him is peak. I have speculated that in 48 and then 49 he may have reached that height of being considered the best player in the world. I have read reports about him being the star player of the 48 Olympics and his technical ability being the key to beating Yugoslavia in the final and their intense aggressive style of play. Then in 49 he leads Sweden to a convincing win over England where he plays well. I don't know if this idea that he was elevated to best in the world at this time is true. Some reports put him on a very similar level to teammate Carlsson during the achievements described in 48 and 49, and not necessarily the star of the team but one among a few world class players.

Walter is a difficult case with losing so much of his career to WWII with Germany not having a national team until 1951. For other players this would be an entire career, but his longevity is among the best of all time. The questions with him are peak and achievement. Looking at achievement outside of the domestic level he has a good run as a breakout young star in the early 1940s, pre WWII but the competition is not the best and the team does suffer repeated setbacks vs teams like Sweden and Switzerland. Honestly I do not value German football and results very highly at this time with the political situation at this time. From 51-54 Walter is the leader of a good but not great German team playing well and wins a surprising world cup. But post 54 the teams form really dips and Walter begins to suffer from injuries. The late 40s really would have been his prime and he does not have single opportunity to play meaningful game then. As far as peak goes, as good as he was from 51-54 I do not think he was ever thought of as on the same level as Puskas or Kocsis, maybe more on the level of a Sciaffino or Gren? Again the issue is what he actually showed vs what may have been possible. I don't think he showed a high enough peak or level of achievement in 40-42 or 51-54 to justify a higher level, although I do not think it is unfair to speculate that a full career could have seen him reach these levels in the mid to late 1940s. I do not think I can move him up a level.

 

South American WWII players

Jose Manuel Moreno
Rene Pontoni
Rinaldo Martino
Jair da Rosa

I have tried to analyze the relative merits of the different famous Argentine forwards of the late 30s and 1940s: Moreno, Sastre, Labruna, Pedernera, Pontoni, Martino, and Mendez. Moreno always seems to come out matching his reputation, being undroppable from the national team when available, where as the group of successors are always rotated.

I am comfortable with Moreno "At the Gates". He has the reputation. When Pele was emerging in the early 60s the comparison was "is he better than Moreno". Giving the impression that Moreno was the South American GOAT for some time and was not considered surpassed by players like Zizinho, Ademir, and Didi etc. He has a strong career of achievement from 36-42 and then kind of goes on sabbatical before returning for another decent run in the late 40s. This period of inconsistency (also indications he was slowing down in 42 before he left) puts him a little short in longevity and achievement for the pantheon.

Jair seems like a clear case for all time great with good longevity, achievement, and peak.

Pontoni and Martino are difficult cases. Both seem to have the adequate peak but longevity and achievement are borderline. They have the difficulty of duking it out with other great players for a place in the Argentina squad in addition to not having a consistent schedule of internationals available to play, and some of the seasons where they had their best domestic production there are no meaningful internationals available.

Starting with Pontoni

I think his season in 42 qualifies as he is capped in the following friendlies, but their is no major tournaments after the 42 season (the 42 SAC was before the 42 season and after the 41. This is his second consecutive season of strong domestic production after his debut season of 41. I will not count this season as he was not called for the 42 SAC that was immediately after it although he does play one friendly after the 41 season.

He does not play in the friendlies after the 43 season and has a dip in production so I will not count that season.

The 44 season is in with the excellent 45 SAC after it where he is one of the key players for the victory.

Looking at the 45 season I am unsure. After the season he loses his place in the team to Pedernera and Labruna.

The 46 season he is definitely in with his famous title winning performance and tour of Spain, but not internationals were played after this season. In 47 he is excellent and is part of the 47 SAC (this time the SAC after the 47 season in December) alternating with Di Stefano where both Pontoni and Di Stefano are highly praised.

This is it for him as he is injured in 48 and then moves off to Colombia where he is no longer the same player.

So he has 4 clear world class seasons in my eyes in 42, 44, 46, and 47 with the possibility for a fifth in 41 or 45.

So he really needs that high peak to propel him past the questionable longevity and he does have a high peak, but I am not sure if it is high enough. In the 45 SAC for example Martino appears to star above him. In 46 Pontoni seems to be considered more of the star but I am unsure if he was ever reaching that idea of best player in the world. He was a highly skilled playmaking center forward.

Martino is another difficult case for similar reasons. High peak, but issues with longevity and achievement because of competition for caps.

1941 is his debut season and I think there is a case for inclusion, he is capped in one friendly and a contemporary report about the 42 SAC (played immediately after the 41 season) states that Argentina were missing some of their best players, citing Sastre and Martino as the two examples. 42 definitely counts as he is top scorer and plays in all friendlies after the season. There are no first team friendlies after the 43 season but his production and the teams high place in the table remains the same so I think it should count. Then 44 with the 45 SAC as part of the season is definitely in. Then the 45 season he plays most of the friendlies after the season but loses his place to Pedernera and Labruna by the time of the 46 SAC (after the 45 season) the 45 league champions. Then he has a great season in 46 I will give him but no internationals associated with it were available. After the 47 season he is again out of the team with Moreno's return and Mendez at this point undroppable. One thing he then has going for him is some exposure abroad where he has a great title winning season in Juventus in 49/50 (good enough that he is immediately capped by Italy vs England) before leaving and playing in the Uruguayan 1950 domestic season for Nacional famously helping them win back the title from last years undefeated champion Penarol featuring Schiaffino, Varela, Ghiggia, Miguez, and Maspoli.

I would say he had world class seasons in 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, and 50. So longevity is not quite as much as an issue as with Pontoni. But achievement at the highest level is a bit more of an issue with so many of his best seasons corresponding to seasons where not meaningful internationals were available.

 

1950s players in this category

Bobek, Stjepan
Liddell, Billy
Boniperti, Giampiero
Fatton, Jacques
Finney, Tom
Puskas, Ferenc
Hidegkuti, Nandor
Wilkes, Faas
Kubala, Laszlo
Rahn, Helmut
Di Stefano, Alfredo
Piantoni, Roger
Terry, Alberto

I have Di Stefano and Puskas in the pantheon, and I cant imagine any real argument against either of them.

I have Hidegkuti as at the gates and he is an interesting case. He arrives on the scene in the late 40s at a similar time to Puskas, but Puskas is immediately seen as a can't miss starter and one of the best players in the team, whereas Hidegkuti does not become first choice until 1951. From his first cap in 45 to 51 he is in an out of the team, generally playing against weaker opponents. From 51-55 he is obviously fantastic. He is the best player from MTK and despite having less great players than Honved Hidegkuti leads then to go head to head with Honved having plenty of success. His dynamic in Hungary as the star player of the second best team in the county during that countries golden generation reminds me of van Hanegem at Feyenoord (with Puskas being Cruyff and Honved being Ajax in this comparison). As I look closer at his resume I am begining to think he may be better suited to all time great. His peak is close to the pantheon with his starring role in 1953 in the international vs England and overthrowing Honved in the league as top scorer that year. But pairing a borderline pantheon peak with longevity far short of the pantheon does not really put him one small issue under the pantheon, as many other players are.

Of the other players Finney is the only other one I considered for higher levels but I have him as all time great. I don't think his peak ever began to approach that international recognition as nearing the best player in the world.

Of the next group of players listed there are a number of them who I am uncertain of as all time greats.

Almost every player I have some uncertainties.

Bobek I am unsure of his importance for Yugoslavia in comparison to their other forward (Vukas, Mitic, Zebec). A player like Cajkovski seems to have universal praise at half but I find the forwards harder to sort out, other than maybe Vukas who seems closer to a sure thing. Bobek fails to make an impact in either world cup he plays and has multiple club seasons where barely plays.

Liddell has a good reputation among the British but outside of that I am unsure. For Scotland he is in and out of the team post war and seems to deliver strong performances rarely compared to some of the other Scottish players from the 50s like Evans or Young who are far more consistant. His club career for Liverpool is strong initialy but he ends up playing in the second division. Wartime football helps him as he is being capped as early as 42 and has some of Scotland's few strong moments vs England's all conquering war time side.

Boniperti really lacks success outside of Italy. His career with the national team is disappointing. In his prime there is no European Cup but he is good in smaller tournaments that are available and has a big performance in an all star match vs England, but he is part of the Charles/Sivori teams that fail in the European Cup.

Fatton has a very good record on paper scoring winners vs England and Scotland in the late 40s, a brace vs Brazil in the 1950 world cup, and many goals scored vs the top teams of his time. He however does not seem to come through as clearly as a teammate like Bickel did in match reports. With a smaller reputation I am unsure about him.

Wilkes seems like one of the only ones who seems safe at all time great among this group.

Kubala is always a mystery to me, so few opportunities for exposure internationally, never really a starter for the late 50s Barcelona teams but seems to be picked for the bigger games and plays well from reports. He seems to be the key player in some of the Czechs only good results immediately post war. With Spain he seems very inconsistent, as does the whole team in the late 50s. He at least seems to have the peak to make up for some possible borderline achievement the international level.

Rahn seems to be on the safer side with two strong world cups and good performances all the way until 1960.

Piatoni's issue is peak. He never really stands out in match reports to me and clearly seems to be behind Kopa and Fontaine, I am not sure if he is a really good supporting player or a great one.

Alberto Terry seems like a decent bet as Peru's best player of the decade with big performances on his resume vs the best Argentina and Brazil teams of the era in the late 50s.

 

Next group

Sivori, Omar
Hamrin, Kurt
Sanchez, Leonel
Pele
Juya, Juan

Pele is an easy call for the pantheon.

I currently have Hamrin "at the gates" but I am unsure on this. He only reached a high Ballon d'Or position in a World Cup year. His best seasons at Fiorentina did not seem to rate him as a top player in Europe, taking away the idea of him as approaching the best player in the world. Longevity is great, achievement is strong but could have been better if he had been allowed to play more for Sweden. I might move him down to all time great.

I gave Sivori some consideration for higher levels based on his peak, but he does not have a lot of international achievement, and the longevity is not great either.

Sanchez and Joya seem like solid bets for all time great.