A list of all time great players, and the pantheon of greatest ever

I have returned to this idea recently and am revising it. A number of people had criticism of the idea that made sense and I had my own dissatisfactions with it. Look my list of goal scorers for example.

Having only two designations puts players like Ronaldo and Van Basten at the same level as Bettega, Skoblar, and Lambert etc.

This does not accurately reflect there standing in my eyes. My solution follows the suggestion of a few different posters.

1) Make the barrier to entry for the baseline all time great list more difficult. There will now be fewer players who make the all time great level, with players like the three above no longer making the cut. This will bring all the players at this level closer to a similar level.

2) Create another tier of players between all time great and pantheon. There are a group of players who I wavered back and forth on with how strictly to apply my criteria for the pantheon, oand players who fit all criteria but one. These types of players like Ronaldo and Van Basten (only lack longevity but easily qualify at other criteria) as mentioned above will now have an intermediate level between the two. This allows me to make more strict decisions on pantheon inclusion while not worrying about a player barely missing the pantheon and then being on an equivalent level to a player who barely makes all time great.

This time through the exercise I also grouped players according to their role on the pitch (finishers, creators, controllers, defenders, goalkeepers) to make it easier to apply criteria to groups of players who generally do the same thing or have the same basic role within the game. IT was too difficult to apply similar criteria about peak level of perception for defenders vs finishers etc.

I also have rethought my criteria to a degree.

Criteria for all time great:

Longevity: They need to have roughly five seasons performing at a world class level. For me a season at a world class level reflects a performance across a whole season where a players performance reflects that he is one of the best handful of players in the world in his role (defender/finisher etc).

Peak: The player needs to be a game changing star player, one of the the signature difference making players of his team or teams. I want this criteria to exclude really good players who were good in their role but were not the difference making or defining players in their teams. Another way I thought about this was with comme's star system. If all of players best seasons and tournaments are at a * level with no ** or *** seasons this player does not make the cut. Look at a player like Jose Antonino Camacho. Very good longevity and has achievement at domestic, European , and international levels. But he has no seasons where he is a defining or dominant player in my eyes. He has no team of the tournament levels performances in Euros or WCs, no Ballon d'Or votes, no domestic player of the year wins etc. He was just very good in his role but never seemed like a dominant player in the team. For all the teams he was on with Real Madrid or Spain I always feel like you can name at least two or three other players more important than him for a given season or tournament. I am hard pressed to find or identify any particular moment or game on a big important stage where he was decisive. Even for other similar defenders I can find distinctions that help me justify succeeding in this criteria. Burgnich for example has similar longevity and high levels of achievement in Europe, domestic and international play. It is hard for a relatively defensive fullback like these two to get Ballon d'Or votes for example. But with Burgnich and can quickly and easily come up with big high leverage knockout stage games against top opponents where he was decisive: The 64 EC final where he famously nullifies Gento, or his fantastic performance vs Germany in the WC semifinal where he is arguably man of the match. He is also so central to the success of Grand Inter being one of the key members of the defense that the team's success is built around.

Delivering at the highest level: The player needs to have a consistent record of coming through in bag matches at the highest level of competition for their time. So for pre-WWII players this would be friendlies vs big nations as well as international tournaments, with more current players being judge on major tournaments and knockout stages of the champions league. If a players is lacking in one of these area, take Kenny Daglish for example who fails to deliver in big tournaments for Scotland, they need to really excel in others areas to pass this criteria. So if a player fails with the national team they need to be overwhelmingly success at another similar level, as Daglish was in the EC to make up for this. This criteria was a problem for a player like Ibrahimovic. He fails to have any big performances in the knock out stages of the CL and major international tournaments, and this is also despite him having more opportunities in the the vast majority of players. Failing to deliver big performances with Sweden is more understandable to a degree, although his levels here are still disappointing in my eyes, but the failure to have any big signature champions league performances with so many opportunities is more damning.

Criteria for Pantheon is increased requirements in the same three categories. Peak needs to reach best player in the world for attacking players (and approaching it for non attackers) as oppose to just one of the best at your position. Longevity must be significantly more than all time great criteria. Delivery of great performances at the highest levels must be consistent and many at all levels, with no allowances for a player like Daglish who is missing one component but has another. The players also just needs to have a careers free of question marks and inconsistencies. This is what will separate players who make the pantheon from those who end up at the intermediate level between pantheon and all time great.

I will start going though my revised lists later and try to give some thoughts on each player and why I placed them in that spot. All thoughts are welcome, I am sure there are still many inconsistencies of thought and reasoning in my list that could be improved with input from others.

 

Finishers

These are players who have a primary role of finishing offensive moves. Obviously these are all time great players so they are capable of many things on the pitch but their primary role is finishing. This includes many center forwards, strikers, goal scoring inside forwards, and even some of the most goal minded wide forwards or wingers.

Pantheon

Nordahl, Gunnar
Muller, Gerd
Ronaldo, Cristiano

At the Gates

Gallacher, Hughie
Ademir de Menezes
Kocsis, Sandor
Eusebio
van Basten, Marco
Ronaldo

All Time Great

Bloomer, Steve
Schlosser, Imre
Friedenriech, Arthur
Libonatti, Julio
Tarasconi, Domingo
Rydell, Sven
Takacs, Jozsef
Hofmann, Richard
Jorgensen, Pauli
Juve, Jorgen
Schiavo, Angelo
Varallo, Francisco
Langara, Isidoro
Leonidas da Silva
Piola, Silvio
Erico, Arsenio
Varela, Severino
Bican, Josef
Fernandez, Teodoro
Lawton, Tommy
Labruna, Angel
Mostensen, Stan
Zarra, Telmo
Mermans, Jef
Nyers, Istvan
Miguez, Oscar
Lofthouse, Nat
Aguas, Jose
Charles, John
Evaristo
Ivanov, Valentin
Tichy, Lajos
Altafini, Jose
Seeler, Uwe
Spencer, Alberto
Greaves, Jimmy
Artime, Luis
Bene, Ferenc
Kindvall, Ove
Riva, Luigi
Heynckes, Jupp
Krankl, Hans
Elkjaer Larsen, Preben
Rush, Ian
Voller, Rudi
Careca
Butragueno, Emilio
Lineker, Gary
Sanchez, Hugo
Papin, Jean Pierre
Vialli, Gianluca
Romario
Stoichkov, Hristo
Klinsmann, Jurgen
Weah, George
Shearer, Alan
Suker, Davor
Batistuta, Gabriel
Vieri, Christian
Owen, Michael
Raul
Shevchenko, Andriy
Henry, Thierry
van Nistelrooy, Ruud
Eto'o, Samuel
Drogba, Didier
Villa, David
Suarez, Luis
Lewandowski, Robert

Pre WWI players

I only included one pre WWI British finisher in Steve Bloomer. He quite easily qualifies for all time great based on longevity, peak level, and achievement with both club and country. I did not give him serious thought for the pantheon based on the idea that he was never considered the best player in the world by observers of his time. He was always rated behind Goodall and Smith. He also failed to ever win a trophy at the club level despite playing for a relatively talented team. Overall he does make a run at the second near Pantheon level "At the Gates" but with all pre WWI players I am inclined to rounding down a level on close calls because of the smaller talent pool they played in. Other players I considered from this era but did not put in were Billy MacKinnon, Neville Cobbold, Archie Hunter, Robert Hamilton, and Jimmy Quinn. MacKinnon has a decent case on paper but he seemed to be rated behind a number of his Queen's Park teammates, and again from this era I really only want the absolute best. Cobbold has the peak level and reputation but lacks longevity, only being capped in four seasons. Hunter does not have the opportunity to prove himself at the international level and does not have the most impressive longevity either, Hamilton is probably the closest to inclusion with decent longevity and achievement, but I am unsure about his peak or top level, as he was rated below the three more famous English forwards and played second fiddle in the national team to another player not on the list in RS McColl. Quinn lacked consistent achievement with the national team.

Imre Schlosser was the only one of the great goal scorers outside of Britain I included int he Pre WWI days with players like Ohaco and Neilsen left out, I am hesitant to include any non-British players from this era when football is really in its infancy in other parts of the world, but Schlosser with his fantastic longevity, consistency and high rating in things like all time Hungarian footballer lists convinced me he was worth inclusion. For players pre WWI outside Britain I really only included players who were considered the absolute best of their region.

Interwar Player

Only one interwar center forward approached the pantheon but ended up only at the gates in Hughie Gallacher. Everything I have read about him indicates that he was the truly special forward of his time in terms ability. Short, explosive, and agile his is often described as a great dribbler and very technical with devastating turning skills and explosive burst of acceleration. He was also an excellent passer. When I read descriptions of him I image him as whatever the 1920s version of Romario looked like. He had a great career in Scotland taking a tiny minnow club to near the top of the standings and their only trophy. He then went to Newcastle where he took a relatively untalented team to the league title with an all time great performance. He then spent the a lot of the rest of his time in England getting kicked to bits, finishing most games bleeding through his socks with defenders willing to do anything to avoid more embarrassment. He was still a great club player all the way until the mid 30s with Derby County where he earned a recall to Scotland national team for the most important games of the season in both 1934 and 35 vs England after bursting on to the scene back in 1924. His best performances were for Scotland where he scored 23 goals in 20 games and was selected to face England seven times. He was a key part of Scotland's most devastating performances with the Wembley Wizards in 1928 and again vs England in 1925 when he scored both goals in a 2-0 win that caused English clubs to buy almost every player from that Scottish team. The thing keeping him a little short of the pantheon is consistency and longevity, he fully succeeds in my eyes when looking at peak level and delivering top performances for Scotland, the most important games available to him in this era. From front to back he has a long enough career but there is a dead period where he moves to Chelsea with some other famous players and disappoints and loses his place for Scotland for three seasons.

In South America a number of the more famous forwards make all time great in Friedenriech, Libonatti, Tarasconi, and Varallo. I was relatively skeptical of Friedenriech but some closer examination showed a decent goal scoring record vs Uruguay and Argentina spread over a relatively long span of time. He also has the reputation as by far the top Brazilian footballer of hos time until the arrival of Leonidas 20 years later. Libonatti has an interesting career being the starting forward for Argentina in the early 20s scoring in every round of the 1921 SAC as his high point in this part of his career. He then moves to Italy and has a great run at both the club and national team level with Torino and Italy. Italy's desire to call him to the national team created the concept of the Oriundo, the South American born players later capped by Italy. Tarasconi has the domestic record and is capped consistently enough throughout the 20s to accumulate 5 WC seasons. Varallo is the best Argentinian player from the 1930s, spanning from a young gun in the 1930 Word Cup and he veteran star player in the victorious 1937 South American Championship. From 1930 to 37 he plays for the best club team in the country and plays in nearly every game vs Uruguay, the most important fixture on the continent. Two of the bigger names from this era are missing from my list. Seoane fails to accumulate five world class seasons in my mind. He fails to break into the national team in a meaningful way until 1924, making me doubt the importance of his domestic goal scoring feats in 1922 in and Argentina domestic league that was split in two. He is good for the national team in 24 and 25 and is part of a successful tour of Europe in 26. But beyond that I have my doubts. He is part of the winning team in 1927 SAC but I have the impression other player were better. From that point on he is out of the team and is not a part of the 28 Olympics, 29 SAC or 30 World Cup despite being active and productive domestically until 1932 for one of Argentina's most famous teams. Petrone is missing for similar reasons. Like Seoane a big reputation and high peak but has a failure to be called to the national team consistently which makes me question his candidacy. Is only a clear starter in 23 and 24 and is then rotated in and out of the team with Castro and others, playing sparingly or not at all in 27, 28, 29, and 30.

In Europe Rydell has an excellent career with Sweden with a high peak level performance in the 24 Olympics and good longevity. Juve has an outstanding goal scoring record as a center forward before moving to center half and being strong their all the way into the late 30s. He is a center forward from 1928 to 34, scoring 33 goals in 28 appearances. Jorgensen is Denmark's star player with a great goal scoring record and excellent longevity for the national team. Hofmann is Germany's first great forward and has a tremendous five year run with the national team from 1928-32. He cuts it close on longevity but this is only because he was banned from the national team for breaking armature rules after 32, he was still productive domestically all the way until the early 1940s with a championship winning Dresdner side. Takacs cuts it close on longevity but really produces some top level performances on big stages in the Mitropa Cup and for the national team. Schiavio has some issues breaking into the national team competing against the inside trio from Torino and Meazza, but comes through with top level performances in the 28 Olympics and the 34 world cup. He is also consistently great for Bologna and has some excellent runs in the Mitropa Cup as well. Piola and Langara come in at the end of this time period. Piola struggles with amounting 5 world class seasons, as he has a high peak with the national team from 37 to 39 but the war interrupts after that, but in my eyes he clearly satisfies the other criteria enough to merit inclusion. Langara has an outstanding record with Spain in the mid and late 1930s before being forced to move abroad where he was excellent during the golden era of the Argentine league.

A few big European names are left out, most obviously Dixie Dean and Jimmy McGrory. The two recording setting British center forwards. As big as Dixie Dean's reputation is he has a maximum of three world class season under his belt in my eyes. He can count 1927 with his fantastic goal scoring outburst for the national team including a brace and a rare win vs the scots is followed by the record setting goal scoring display and title winning season in 1928. After this he consistently disappoints with England and is dropped after 1929 and Everton is relegated. He has a comeback season in 32 winning another top scorer title and and league title but fails to ever make another significant performance for the national team. The measure of all Scotland's top footballers of pre WWII times is the number of selections and the quality of the performances vs England. McGrory is only selected against England twice, something I am unable to rectify with an all time great career. Silny has an excellent career with Sparta Prague and Czechoslovakia, but I am unsure of his top level or peak. The things I have read portray him more as a hard working and productive player, but not a great one.

More explanations for finishers with be forthcoming...

 

There are some interesting cases for inclusion among the WWII era finishers, and it is especially interesting trying to figure out the players with interrupted careers from Europe.

Lawton has become a shoe in for me at all time great after after re evaluating war time football in Britain. Combining his wartime and full internationals he was capped 47 times scoring 48 goals and was a dominant first choice center forward for England for a whole decade from 37 to 47. Those caps and goals are split equally between wartime and full internationals. The war time internationals appear to me to have no difference in importance or quality when compared to full internationals. In fact the international friendlies seemed to take up more importance during the war and England played a Scotland and Wales 2 to 3 times per year, both of which had good teams. In the later half of war time England is playing strong continental teams in Switzerland and France in addition to their British opponents. In full internationals he repeatedly performs very well vs top international teams like Italy pre and post war and the gold medal winning Sweden squad post war among others. His international career is bookended by two outstanding performances against continental all star teams in 38 and 47. Honestly I gave him some consideration for the higher levels. I think his peak justifies it, being the complete powerhouse center forward. He compared favorably to Nordahl, his contemporary in the 40s who he faced twice and appeared to be superior. He was fantastic in the biggest games for England. I think him losing any meaningful domestic career with WWII and his strange self imposed exit from relevance post war when he moves to a division three side and falls out of the national team preclude him from moving higher. I personally think he was probably England's greatest center forward ever, depending only on how you classify John Goodall. I personally rate Lawton as more impactful and decisive than Shearer or Lineker.

Bican is the other European WWII finisher I included as all time great. He has a difficult career to evaluate but there are a number of factors that lead me to inclusion. First is that his peak levels seem to qualify him for not only all time great but possibly the higher levels. His speed, power, and shooting were unmatched and it is constantly referred to of how overwhelming and devastating of a player he was. A number of good lists from journalists rank him as the greatest Czech player ever well ahead of other more accomplished interwar contemporaries like Nejedly. He also appears to perform well on the biggest stages. For Austria he was favored in the most important matches and was recalled to the national team basically any time he was healthy enough to play, scoring against many of the top European teams. He also has an all time great Mitropa Cup winning performance where he crushes Inter Milan immediately after Italy's world cup win. Then he also has a great goal scoring record with the Czechs before WWII ends this part of his career. Longevity and accumulating world class seasons is his major issue with all the injury issues while in Austria and then not having any high level competition to play when he is dominating Czech domestic leagues where everyone is multiple levels below him. But with him succeeding so easily in the other two categories and playing full slates of internationals in 46 , 47, and 48 post war I think it would be unfair to omit him based only on the impacts of WWII taking away his chances to play more internationals during him peak years.

Binder is a player I did not include who is often compared to Bican but I think is different in a number of important ways. First Binder has the domestic production in Austria that Bican does not because of his injuries. But Binder appears to not have the resume at the highest level. With Austria he never is first choice and appears to only be selected when Austria plays lesser opponents. He also repeatedly fails to make an impact or repeat his domestic performance in the Mitropa Cup. He has some success when playing for Germany but again is never capped consistently. His big achievements all appear to be domestic goal scoring records but he cannot replicate this at the highest levels. He is also described as not a particular skillful or athletic player, but a player with one great skill, shooting technique.

In South America a number of players qualify during a strong period on competitions in the late 30s and 1940s. Leonidas was an interesting case to assess. I have had my doubts in the past as he never plays in a SAC. As far as peak and proving yourself at the highest level he is in good shape receiving huge plaudits by all who viewed him and scoring freely vs top European teams and having a good record vs Argentina. He is not capped in many seasons though, but sometimes this is for reasons outside his control, as in the 42 SAC. It is borderline to accumulate 5 world class seasons when he is not capped as often with Brazil having an irregular schedule and him missing out in some years, but I think he is comfortable enough in the other two categories to pass for all time great.

Erico is the other really big name from this time. He sits at only the minimum of 5 world class seasons and he does not have many opportunities to prove himself at the highest level. But the praise for him is so overwhelming, and his goal scoring records are so far outside anything else ever achieved in Argentina that I think he merits inclusion. In some of his only opportunities to prove himself on a broader scale with Independiente playing teams from outside Argentina he was dominant and his reputation spanned all of South America.

Severino Varela has a strong consistent record of achievement with the Uruguay national team, being the all time top scorer in South American Championships and good performances vs Argentina and Brazil. He also has an excellent domestic record in Uruguay and Argentina.

Labruna's only real question mark is his peak level and I ended up including him. Although he is rated behind Pedernera and Moreno I thinks he still qualifies, and he delivers decisive performances for Argentina across a broad space of time from the 1946 SAC to the 1955 edition.

 

Forgot to mention Teodoro Fernandez. For me he is the equivalent in terms of career of someone like Rydell or Jorgensen in Europe, being the star attacking player from a smaller country with good longevity and good reputation. It takes a bit of inference to decide how good they really were because their team is a level below the big sides. What would have happened with a player like Rydell if he was Austrian? Would his career be even better because he was playing in a better side or would he end up not on the list in a similar way to a player like Schall who ended up not making all time great because there is so much competition for the three forward spots in the Austrian side that he cannot really accumulate five seasons of world class performance? Same idea with Fernandez, what happens if he is Argentine?

With what we actually saw from him he has a strong record. He scores vs Argentina in the 35 SAC, scores vs Brazil and Uruguay in the 37 SAC, is top scorer and best player in Peru's 39 SAC winning campaign, and scores vs Argentina and Brazil in the 42 edition. He also has the 36 Olympics on his resume where he and Peru were well received in terms of their quality.

 

Getting into post war football I have three footballer at least approaching the pantheon.

First I will address Nordahl who is the first finisher I have in the Pantheon. Looking at longevity I would say Nordahl has roughly 11 seasons where he performs at a world class level. His peak level is very high in my eyes, setting Serie A goal scoring records that were not approached until recent times and doing it without taking penalties. He was a powerhouse of a striker. Watching footage of him even in his later days you can see defenders literally bouncing off of him. His downhill momentum is unstoppable, and although he is a very different style of player than R9, Ronaldo is the player he brings to mind in the the sense that you can see the helpless fear in defenders when he is running straight downhill at them. Nordahl was an excellent header of the ball and appears to have a special knack for hitting volleys with great technique and accuracy. His record at the highest level for Sweden and AC Milan is immaculate. His record with Sweden is amazing for a number of reasons with 43 goals in only 33 games. Not only was he not available for the national team after he joined AC Milan but a big portion of his peak years were during WWII where very limited caps were available. Generally this generation of Swedish players is associated with the 1948 Olympics but as early as 1942 and 43 they were hitting their stride led by the fantastic inside trio of Nordalh, Gren, and Carlsson. In 1942 they beat Germany away 3-2 and then beat Hungary away 7-2 the next season. There is then a major lull in competitive games with the team being limited to playing other Scandinavian sides until 1947. If Nordahl had played a full career with the national team without the WWII interruption and throughout his time with AC Milan he would have an untouchable record for international goals in my opinion. With AC Milan he has limited options for European competition as he precedes the European Cup, but he scores 7 in 6 games in the Latin Cup and then in the tail end of his career is still excellent in the 56 European Cup scoring against Rapid Vienna and Real Madrid. Every single place he played in every team at every level from 1942 to 1956 he was a dominant goal scoring machine.

 

The other two players who approached the Pantheon but fell just short were Ademir and Sandor Kocsis.

I have spoken about how highly I rate Ademir in the past but I will reiterate those ideas here. I rate Ademir as the best player of this generation of Brazilian's above Zizinho. Ademir dominates at the domestic level with Vasco, multiple top scorer titles, perfect unbeaten campaigns, victories in international tournaments, wins in important friendlies vs foreign clubs. His record is excellent with Brazil, with the obvious well know production in 1949 and 1950 but also really strong runs with the national team back in the mid 40s all the way up until the 1953 SAC. He is the complete forward with devastating speed, acceleration, dribbling and passing, starting his career as a winger and inside forward before moving to center forward in 1948 and really going up another level from the already great player he was. I have read his playmaking was very good as well and underrated in general. For the three criteria Ademir easily passes the peak requirements and performing at the highest level. He is a little short on the type of longevity I would look for in a pantheon player, being basically done before the 1954 World Cup. If Brazil would have been active in all World Cups of that time he would have only been a starter for 2 cycles 46 and 50, compared to Nordahl who would have been active for four in 42, 46, 50, and 54.

Kocsis is kept from the pantheon with some longevity and consistency issues, specifically his injury riddled final third of his career with Barcelona. When he is in the team for Barcleona he nearly always scores and has a good record, including important European games, but he plays very inconsistently, and from what I have read was plagued by injuries during his time here. The year off of football between his time in Hungary and in Spain seems to have been detrimental to his fitness as he was not a player with injury problems in Hungary. This is really unfortunate as he could have had a great career in Barcleona, as he was younger than Puskas when they both moved to Spain. As far as peak levels and succeeding at the highest level he easily passes these criteria with what he did for Hungary vs all the best teams in the world. I also think his skill level as a player is underrated. He was an inside forward not a center forward for a reason as he was a good passer and linked play intelligently, but many people obviously focus on his heading ability which is thought to be among the best of all time.

 

The rest of the finishers who made all time great from the immediate post war were a somewhat difficult bunch to rate, and most of them were borderline cases to make it. I will quickly go through each one based on the three criteria.

Stan Mortensen

Longevity: 46/47, 47/48, 48/49, 49/50, 50/51. This is right at the minimum of five seasons. After this he loses his spot in the national team and is only recalled in a few games in early 53/54.

Peak: I think he does well here, being viewed from contemporary accounts I have read as a more complete and special footballer than I first thought. He is really singled out as exceptional or special above some other famous English players in games like the 4-0 win over Italy in 48. I think if there was a Ballon d'Or award for 47/48 he would place very highly.

Contribution at the Highest Level: I think he does well here also with big performances in some of England's highest profile games vs Sweden in 47, Italy in 48, Argentina in 51 etc. He also has famous performances in Cup finals.

Overall I think he skates by on the minimum longevity based on strong showings in the other two categories.

Telmo Zarra

Longevity: This is a bit tougher because for most players I gauge world class seasons as seasons are they contributing at an international level, but in a number of Zarra's strong early seasons he does not have opportunities to gain caps. He basically plays in all the games Spain has available. I think 44/45, 46/47, 48/49, 49/50, 50/51 all are solid seasons with maybe two more that could also qualify.

Peak: Here I struggle a little bit to determine where he sits. Contemporary stuff I have read does not seem to rate him as high as his current reputation, although I still feel like he was probably the match winning or star player of most of the teams he was in, maybe slightly behind the two wingers when playing for Spain.

Contribution at the Highest Level: This one again is tough, he does not have that many opportunities to face top sides with Spain and he is pre European competitions. He does not face a top opponent until 1949 with Spain. Also he is not as decisive in these biggest games when compared to someone like Basora. Zarra has his biggest moments with the national team with the goal vs England in 1950 and the four goals vs a well respected Switzerland team in 1951.

Honestly he is on the edge for all three criteria and I am unsure if he should be rated as all time great, but I currently have him in.

Jef Mermans

He falls into a similar category to the Nordic finishers from the interwar era. Strong reputation, lots of longevity. I think he is more comfortably in that some others in this post,

Longevity: 46/47, 47/48, 48/49, 49/50, 50/51, 51/52, 53/54. I think he is relatively comfortable here.

Peak: I highly skilled player who is referred to by contemporary sources as the best center forward in the world around 1950.

Contribution at the Highest Level: Plays well in big games generally with a number of strong matches vs big nations, good in the World Cup.

Istvan Nyers

He is a difficult case because of the lack of internationals so some inference is needed.

Longevity: 45/46, 48/49, 49/50, 50/51, 51/52, 52/53. I think all of these work.

Peak: A devastating very direct winger famous for long shots and bombing straight in on goal with powerful runs. His goal scoring record in Italy is fantastic. I read some interesting reports from 45/46 when he wins the title with Ujpets and then debuts in the national team scoring in both games he played that he was considered along side Puskas (who had debuted one game sooner) as the great young talents of Hungarian football, putting him ahead of someone like Hidegkuti who was another young player at the time. I also remember reading quotes from Hungary's manager in 54 that Nyers would have started for the Golden Team if he could have been selected.

Contribution at the Highest Level: There is always the question of how to handle cases like this if the opportunities do not exist. I would say that things must be taken on a case by case basis, and in this instance Nyers comes through in big games vs other all star type teams like AC Milan, was highly lauded as a great young talent after playing a few games for Hungary and was successful in multiple leagues over a long period of time.

Oscar Miguez

Maybe a bit of an unexpected name, but maybe one unfortunate injury away from being a shoe in for this list.

Longevity: 49, 50, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56

Peak: Well rounded center forward know for his speed and directness. Was Uruguay's greatest center forward ever in a number of journalists polls until the arrival of the current generation of players. In the games vs England in 1953 he is seen as the star of the team alongside Schiaffino.

Contribution at the Highest Level: Had some very decisive roles in big matches vs Sweden in 1950, England in 1953, Scotland in 1954 etc. He really started the 54 world cup well be was injured before the semifinal. I feel that if Uruguay do not lose Varela and Miguez mid tournament they likely win the 54 WC (Then you could make the argument of what if Puskas or Zemen were not injured just as well). Miguez was also decisive in the 56 SAC win. In general he always came good for the national team.

Nat Lofthouse

Longevity: 51/52, 52/53, 53/54, 54/55, 55/56 Right at five here with a few more seasons that maybe he qualifies, but only five seasons where he is really doing it for the national team.

Peak: Maybe not an especially skilled player but a very impactful one with excellent shooting and heading skills and was mostly a very powerful and physical player. Excellent record for England.

Contribution at the Highest Level: I think he is ok here having a number of famous games vs big sides for England and generally being very good for the national team.

He alongside Zarra are the two players I am most unsure of from this group.

Some Post war players I left out: Ferenc Deak and John Hansen because of a lack on longevity despite being good in other areas. Jackie Milburn did not have a good enough record at the highest level with England. Similar issue with Ferenc Szusza and Hungary. Lawrie Reilly has the career on paper, good national team and domestic performance and achievement and good longevity. But even in what seem like his best games he is rarely talked about by contemporary sources as a special or dominant player, seems more like just a very good player but not all time great.

 

Moving forward into the late 50s and early 60s

Jose Agaus has a very strong record on paper with good longevity. His domestic record is fantastic, but of limited relevance. His is good for Portugal far back into the mid 1950s, scoring and brace in a 3-1 win vs England and scoring against the Hungarian Golden Team. He then has the run of two fantastic European Cup winning campaigns as captain of Benfica scoring 17 times in 16 games across the two tournaments. The only area of question might be peak but I am comfortable with him being in.

John Charles comfortably makes all time great and the only question for him was could he qualify for a higher level. Based on his peak I think he qualifies for a higher level. But I think he falls a bit short for longevity and delivering consistently on the highest level. He has a very strong record for Wales from 1955-58 with some dominant and important performances, but the rest of his Wales career is underwhelming. He also fails to make any impact in the European Cup with Juventus. Again his is comfortable for all time great but I think falls short of the pantheon or even "at the gates".

Evaristo is an interesting case. His longevity is adequate with a strong three years in Brazil before moving to Barcelona where he had another five good seasons, and I think he proves himself very well at the highest levels. He is excellent in the 1957 SAC with Brazil and also has a strong record in European competition with Barcelona, scoring 27 goals in 37 matches in the European and Fairs Cups. His peak levels seems strong and he was a relatively complete player from what I could gather. To a degree I was not sure if he belonged in this category with the finishers or in the next one with players who are both finishers and creators.

Valentin Ivanov has a fantastic record with the Soviet Union and is a mainstay with the team from 1955 to 65 with multiple strong big tournament performances under his belt.

Lajos Tichy has an excellent record for Hungary. He has similar longevity and big tournament performances to Ivanov, and although Hungary were less successful than the Soviet Union in this time, Tichy's performance in big tournaments remained excellent.

Jose Altafini is an interesting case. He has excellent longevity in Italy, being a decisive player all the way through his time in Napoli. He really burst on to the scene in Brazil at a young age alongside Pele. It would have been interesting to see how they developed together if he stayed in Brazil. With AC Milan he has some important European performances which help make up for the lack international matches. I think he is comfortable at the all time great level.

Uwe Seeler is another player alongside John Charles who comfortably made all time great and the only questions were if he could move up another level. Looking at Seeler's longevity he could qualify for the pantheon without issue playing very well in four different world cups. I think his issue is coming through at the highest levels when looking at this criteria in a strict way for levels above all time great. He clearly was very good for Germany for a long time, but he fails to have signature dominant performances on the biggest stages. Both his prime World Cups in 58 and 62 were underwhelming compared to expectations, and he has one good run in Europe, but had a really chance to make a final and did not quite come through. He really just lacks that big moment or even multiple moments that players who make that higher level have. Comparing him to his closest contemporaries who made a higher level he lacks the great world cup performance delivered by Kocsis, Eusebio, or Muller and lacks to sustained European success of Eusebio or Muller with only one tournament of relevance on his resume.

 

Milan Galic, Just Fontaine, and Jose Sanfillipo are three bigger names from this time period that did not make it. Fontaine lacks longevity despite the strong peak and good performance at the top level. Sanfillipo also lacks longevity and fails to make a significant impact at the international level.

Galic was a case I went back and forth on a little more and am still unsure about. He has f straight very good seasons with the national team in 59/60, 60/61, 61/62, 62/63. Then things get a little iffy, he has another full seasons for the national team in 64/65 but the team performs poorly and his goal scoring pace declines. He is not capped anymore after 1965. He also misses out on being a part of the 67 European Cup final team. He has some good years in Belgium later but I am not sure he really has enough of a really great peak to overcome the borderline longevity.

 

On to finishers from the 60s

Alberto Spencer is reliant on his Copa Libertadores performances to qualify without national team opportunities and playing in a two team league, his domestic performance does not have a lot of relevance. Just looking at seasons where he had significant Libertadores runs I think 60, 61, 62, 66, 68, and 70 is a solid six seasons with a case to be made for 71 where he took an Ecuadorian team after his time with Penarol one game short of making the Libertadores final. His peak levels are high as he is the talismanic or star player of the team and an all time great header of the ball how also possessed good skill and explosive acceleration. He can through in the biggest games for Penarol against the highest level opponents vs Santos in 1962, River Plate in 1966, and Real Madrid in 1966 as a few examples. I think his place as all time great is comfortable.

Jimmy Greaves is another player who feels comfortable at all time great but also not really in contention for the pantheon, similar to Spencer. Looking at seasons of world class performance and longevity 60/61, 61/62, 62/63, 63/64, 64/65 and 66/67 are all rock solid seasons in my eyes with possible arguments for a few more. As far a peak goes he was rate as near the best player in the world for a number of year. Performed well for the national team outside of his one disappointing run with the team in 62 and then missing out in part because on injury in 66 and was excellent in Europe when given the opportunity. Things could have been quite different for him as far as his all time reputation goes if he had better circumstances or performance in 62 or 66.

Luis Artime has similarly solid resume on paper to Greaves and Spencer with maybe a few questions about his peak as he was less of an obviously dynamic or special player compared to the other two players above. His longevity or number of world class seasons can vary quite a bit depending on if you count his early seasons with Atlanta and River Plate from 61-63 where he is scoring a ton of goals domestically and getting some caps and scoring, but not really a first choice player in the national team yet. From 64-67 he has a strong record for the national team and then is excellent in the 68 Libertadores and then has a strong seasons with Brazil for Palmieras before moving to Nacional and having a star performance in the 71 Libertadores, putting him with 6 comfortable seasons as world class and maybe more. Overall he seems to have strong performances at all levels although I can't say I know any decisive performances with the national team vs big countries off the top of my head. Vs Spain in 66 is impressive but most of his goals come vs smaller countries. There are a few questions here but but overall with how consistent his performances were in multiple league I like him as an all time great.

Ferenc Bene is another solid candidate for all time great, with longevity that probably qualifies for the pantheon being great basically every season from 1964 to 1973. Fantastic record with the national team some strong runs in Europe in the late 60s and early 1970s, strong record of Ballon d'Or votes. Overall no flaws in candidacy for all time great but clearly short in peak (never approached best player in the world) for pantheon.

Next post I will talk about Eusebio and then some of the players who missed out from the 1960s.

 

With Eusebio I ended up with him "At the Gates", above all time great but short of the pantheon. When judging the merits of his career I do not think that the domestic achievements should hold very much importance in a league with only two good teams, similar to my thoughts on someone like Alberto Spencer. Eusebio falls short of the pantheon in longevity and consistency in my eyes. His domestic production is relatively consistent all the way through 1973, but there is a big drop off in performance for Portugal and in the European Cup after 1968. I would rate him as having 8 world class seasons, a little short of pantheon level. I think the biggest mark against him is the national team consistency. What he does with the national team from 64 to 66 is undisputable excellent. The run pre 64 is a bit disappointing but I can understand how it takes a national team who has never qualified for anything before a little time to get rolling despite its talent. It seems similar to the Dutch missing out in 70 and 72 despite club excellence before finally coming together in 74. Portugal seemed to be on a similar trajectory missing out in 62 and 64 and then really getting things on track in 66. But post 74 Cruyff and the Dutch solidify their place and go on to qualify for every tournament thereafter. Portugal craters after 66 with Eusebio playing in 21 Euro or WC qualifiers only scoring 8 goals and failing to qualify for four tournaments. They are losing to teams like Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, and Switzerland etc, and much of this is pre 1970 when he is still in or close to his prime. His peak is great enough for Pantheon without question, and he delivered repeatedly in the EC and was fantastic in a WC against the biggest and most famous teams in the world (Brazil, Real Madrid) but he does have some issues above that keep him out of the pantheon in my eyes.

Some players from the 60s I did not include were Asparuhov, Hunt, Hurst, and Nielsen. The two English players never really had me convinced their peaks were truly great players, as oppose to very good ones on great teams. Asparuhov and Nielsen both lack longevity and fail to accumulate five world class seasons, with Asparahuov having significant injury issues despite a high peak and knack for delivering in big games.

 

I will address Owen when I get to that point, he was a borderline candidate.

 

1970s Finishers

Ove Kindvall is a player I am not 100 percent certain on but I have him in at this point. I have him at six world class seasons with 66-71. There is some uncertainty here with 67 for example where he missed some games and did not have major European or International credentials but I think he can still claim five. As for peak levels I think the Ballon d'Or speaks well for him and he was one of the star players for one of the great club sides in the world. He delivered at the top level in the EC for Feyenoord but he only has one major run. With Sweden he delivers in qualifiers but not in an actual big tournaments. Again in my eyes he is on the edge with qualifying for this category.

Luigi Riva I think can make all time great but it is not as clear cut of a case as I would have thought. I think he can qualify for five world class seasons in 67/68, 68/69, 69/70, 71/72, and 72/73 (maybe an argument for 66/67 as a sixth). High peak where he was considered one of the very best players in the world. When looking at delivering in big games he does not have a lot to point at on the club side in European competitions, but taking such a small club to such heights in a big league counts for something. With Italy he has an excellent record and delivers some excellent performances vs larger nations. I think the high peak helps him overcome some borderline qualification in other categories.

Jupp Heynckes I think is comfortable for all time great despite playing second fiddle to Muller in the national team. Looking at world class seasons I think you can count 70/71, 71/72, 72/73, 73/74, 74/75, 75/76 comfortably with possible cases for a few others. Looking at his peak I would say he was one of the decisive players for one of the best club sides in the world for most of a decade, scoring 45 goals in 54 European games for Monchengladbach making it to the semifinals in five different tournaments. He does not have the opportunity to deliver in big games for Germany because of Muller, with Heynckes in and out of the team, sometimes as a sub, and often playing a role he was not best suited for, although he still plays in some important games. With his club he scores vs the basically all the best clubs of his time in European competition: Leeds, Twente, Liverpool, Rangers, Juventus, Real Madrid, and Ajax not to mention the additional opportunity he lost for more European achievement in the 71/72 EC.

Gerd Muller makes the pantheon comfortably in my eyes. I would put him at 11 world class seasons, and he delivers over and over again in the biggest games possible for Bayern and Germany. I would say he has as many decisive late stage major tournament performances for club and country as any player in football history. Some would question his peak based on a lack of flashy skills etc, but for me he is clearly in that category of being considered the or among the very best players in the world for a significant amount of time and was as impactful as a player could be in the biggest games. Some would point to the abundance of opportunity he had playing a whole career with one of the best nations and club teams in the world. I would say this is true but he made more of this full opportunity than almost any other player I can think of. I would also argue that he made Bayern one of the best clubs in the world, he was clearly not walking into a great team with an established record of dominance in Europe.

 

Some 70s finishers I did not include were Raoul Lambert, Roberto Bettega, Zdenek Nehoda, and Roberto Dinamite.

Lambert is a little short of 5 world class seasons, Nehoda is short on peak, and Dinamite does not have enough contribution at the international/continental level.

Bettega is the one here I am the most uncertain on. I think he is right on the edge with world class seasons with possibly 5 in 75/76, 76/77, 77,78, 78/79, and 79/80. His peak in 77 with the scoring for the national team and the great campaign with Juventus domestically and in Europe seems to qualify. He also does have some important contributions for the national team and Juventus on an international level, but these are more focused in qualifiers and UEFA Cup as oppose to World Cups and European Cups. All in all he is on the border in two of the three categories putting him in a similar group to some of the finishers I have borderline but in "All Time Great". I feel that he should either be in with some of the other players I have identified as borderline but in, or they should drop out with Bettega.