Had The Wank made a few slightly different decisions, the Rapids could have looked like the following in 2003: Spenny - Simutenkov - Carrieri Paule - Grimandi - Chung - Henderson Borchers - Fraser - Bent Brown This surely wouldn't have been possible given cap restrictions, so perhaps a more realistic lineup (that would allow for a bench) might be: Spenny - Simutenkov - Carrieri Paule - Beckerman - Chung - Hendo Borchers - Fraser - Bent Garlick
Except Bent wanted to go to Europe. Did Hanki trade Paule? I'm surprised he's learn to put it together in Columbus ... then again Columbus sucked!
Re: Re: A lineup we could have had? Yes, Bent wanted to play in Europe... but it can be argued that he would have stayed if he believed in coaching/management and perhaps had a slightly better salary. Remember, the Rapids had only just fired Mooch when Bent's contract was MLS was up. Paule was traded for Steve Shak. Oof.
Your "realistic" lineup may be an improvement over current one however, IMO, it features unproven Beckerman, a good bench player, Carrieiri and 2 A-League quality players, Bent & Paule. Everyone wants to play in Europe, unfortunately, Bent is A-League quality. Furthermore, this Canadian would occupy SI status. The only differences between Paule/Shak are 1) Paule is still cashing an undeserved check in MLS and 2) Paule is related by marriage to Tim Howard.
That lineup BLOWS greenie... For starters... ZiZi Roberts will bag goals galore... Bent was one dimentional, solid man marker because of his speed, couldn't pass or get forward, Bent would get eaten alive in three back set... Chung in all his glory hasn't proven he can play in the middle of the park... Paule is crap. The Garlick-Brown swap dismisses the importation of Valderamma... The problem Hankinson has is NOT the players that leave, but the players HE BRINGS IN, and then the on the field strategy he employs, i.e. playing for ties, and snatching defeat from the claws of victory... Two other factors that have plagued this team is untimely injuries and completely incompetent officiating.
briefly... I meant to list Mastroeni instead of Fraser in both of the lineups at the start of this thread. Oops. I never meant to suggest this was some incredible lineup that we missed out on... just an example to show how different the team could have been with a minimum of tinkering. I guess what I'm trying to explore is the question of just what the hell have the Rapids been trying to do for the last 3 seasons. E.G. Chung as a center midfielder is what Hankinson claimed he was bringing him here to be when he first acquired him. Oh, as for Zizi bagging goals galore... I hope so, but I'll believe it when I see it.
First Paule for Shak is a major Oof ... except that Paule sucked for NY too. I can't say that I watched Columbus much ... but he gets kudos from thier fans ... then again he got them from us once too Second, I too will only believe Zizi will score goals galore when I see it. I'm not sold yet either. Finally, I agree that the problem is not the players that have left, but the players that are brought in as well as the trading first rounder year after year. So what I mean is, it's not that our drafted players are bad, especially for the draft position we get them at, but other than Spencer we haven't had a successful foreign player aquistion (does Harris count? okay Bent to an extent.). Limpar would have been except for the injuries. Every other team seems to do better in this department with the possible exception of New England ... but I could be wrong there too - damn maybe we are the worst in that department!!!
There is a lot of what if and we could have going around these days. I think it is time to give up the sour grapes and get ready for the new season.
This is a large part of being a sports fan, bub. There isn't exactly a glut of team-related news these days (aside from cheap tickets), and we're fans that like to talk about the team. It's not about sour grapes, either. We could have just won 2 titles in a row, love all our players and the coach (snicker), and many would still be wondering what kind of lineups we could have wound up with had minor decisions gone a different way.
Ah, a Rapid's apologist speaks again. Look Bonji, every fan in every sport talks about the ones that got away and the what if's that go with it. Broncos fans talk about what if Shanahan didn't sign Gardner or Carter or draft Middlebrooks and Rockies fans talk about the signings of Hampton, Swift and Saberhagen as well. It is a discusion of the possibilities. And with the moves the Wank has made in his 3 years here, a worthy discussion at that. People tend to forget that Wank didn't sign Spencer, he was already allocated to the Rapids while Mooch was coach. The only decent moves Hanki has made was getting CC, Pablo, Chung, and Henderson and with Chung's brooding and attitute, that can be questioned. Every foreign signing has been a disaster and his drafts have yielded, what two guys with roster spots? Stewart and Crawford. He has guys retiring at the age of 22 and others not wanting to come back because of false promises. I think looking at the past three years and analyzing what could have been is relevent and necessary to being a fan of the Rapids. Nobody here wants to see the Rapids do poorly. We're just sick of mediocraty and a front office and ownership, AEG and now KSE, that seems to accept it on the field and off with things like the website. It's not sour grapes. The ones who criticize didn't want to work for the Rapids and were turned down so we're critical. We're fans that want to see positive steps forward, not backward. And if you don't think it's relevant to look at the backward steps the team has made from 2002 to 2003 and now 2004, well, then keep your head in the sand. Some fans want to make it known that it is not ok to: - lose two more games in 2003 than 2002 while playing 2 extra games. - to bow out of the playoffs in the first round after scoring one goal and changing a winning lineup - to start a season 1-6-1 - to end a season 0-4-4, including playoffs - to have promising young players retire or not want to come back or sit the bench while guys like Trembly continue to get playing time - to not update a website with current information, even if a promised 'new look' is forthcoming - to allow a coach that hasn't seen any real success continue while losing the respect of players all over the place Christ, I could go on but I think my point is made. We're all looking forward to the new season but with what has happened in the past (a pretty good indicator of what is going to happen in the future) can you blame fans for being sceptical of the success the Rapids will see in 2004?
I wouldn't have worded it the way you did Bonji but I agree in principal. Why dwell on what could have been? What if we would have? ... Most of us agree that Mr Hanki plain sucks and that Dan Counce is useless so why not instead of being a bunch of SOBs and carry on about the past look to the future and how we as fans can convince KSE to fire the bastards!!!! How's that for a positive twist ?
So all sports fans breed discontent for their teams? I guess I don't see it that way. You must be a Jets or Eagles fan too.
Greenie, I think we both agree, that the problem isn't necessarily the moves we've made within the league, even though a couple of them have been complete a$$, but the influx of foreign talent, and the lack of more than one game breaker at a time. That basically Hankinson f***s us with his poor *strategery* and makes it worse by not filling in the gaps with quality instead of experimentation, WHEN they could easily go out and get a quality player. Either way, both Counce and Hanki have been a friggin' disgrace, and have killed opportunities to get to a CUP TWICE. I've already seen ZiZi score, everytime the guy walks on the pitch he bags goals. Not only that, but out of every player on that team, ZiZi has a scorer's mentality, he looks to score at every opportunity, even more so than Johnny Spencer, who it can be said last year, passed on WAY too many opportunities looking for the final "cheeky" pass. So we all agree that Hankinson has to go, and for the most part the players can't be to blame?
No, I'm not. It was a major talking point within the Rapids that Chung was not the best leader and example for some of the young guys, especially when they started out 1-6-1. Nobody ever questioned his talent, but when the team needed veterans to step up and lead during the horrible start, Chung was nowhere to be seen. Except the back of him as he was one of the first to leave training. Plus, it has been a minor story throughout the league that Chung wears out his welcome after a time and teams get rid of him. Why do you think he's played for 3 teams in 8 seasons? He's always played well but always get moved. He was one of the guys on the block last year when Counce made his infamous, "Nobody is safe" quote. He and Henderson were the major players being shopped around.
come on... get real. the "young players" you mention are men. they can make up their own mind and aren;t going to "give it more" because chung is happy. they are going to "give it more" because they want it. If you were talking about setting an example for youth players I would understand it, but these guys have been through that and are on a pro soccer team now. I think the attitude of one player, no matter how long he has been there, has no bearing on how well the young players do. besides, how well the young players would do was irrelivant anyway since the wank never gave any of them a chance anyway. leaving training first, and not being happy with the coaching situation and not taking leadership just because you've played for a while does not fault his game. I can't on any level fathom how having chung on the team is bad. He brings his A game, and is a great fair player. He is actually the rapids player i respect the most for the simple reason of his only recieving 1 red card in his entire MLS career and still performing so wonderfully! Chung and Spenny are actually the only 2 rapids players i would actually be deeply disapointed about leaving if/when they left/leave the team.
I disagree. Most young, first-year players in MLS have gone through their entire lives as the stars and leaders of their teams, and have done with the full support (financially, emotionally, residentially) of their parents and their colleges. These kids arrive in MLS and it's their first time out in the real world, and the first time they're not king of the mountain. It's no different than any other college graduate that gets their first job and first apartment, and for the first time are fully responsible for their own well-being. And few people ever succeed without bosses and co-workers that help to inspire and set standards. Look no farther than Chris Carrieri and Nat Borchers, both of whom have openly credited the presence of John Spencer and Robin Fraser, respectively, for helping them develop into the players they are today. Beleive me, when they say this they're not just talking about that to do with the ball, either. Just because someone is 21-23 years old does not mean they are a "man" and it most certainly does not mean they're prepared to compete and thrive in a "man's world" of professional sports where only the strongest survive.
Do you really think that that kind of attitude doesn't affect the other players in the locker room? Especially the young guys who haven't been in a professional environment before? Remember, these are kids that haven't had to fend for themselves much before and are finally in the real world. They look to the veterans to see how to act professionally on and off the field. It's not enough for a veteran like Chung to just bring his 'A game' on a Saturday night. They have to set examples, like Greenie mentioned with Spencer and Fraser. There is more to being a professional soccer player than just showing up. As far as Chung the player is concerned, I never said anything about him not being committed on the field. But someone who broods and acts indifferent in the locker room affects the play of others. Why are NFL teams constantly getting rid of guys like Keyshawn Johnson and Terrell Owens? They are cancers in the locker room and affect other players. Especially younger players.
Is Chung really a cancer in the locker room? Picking up and leaving, not mentoring, and generally being distant means that he probably shouldn't be team captain, but it's a far cry from actually being a cancer. I'd never heard that Chung was a problem elsewhere either. I have no inside knowledge, but I think the reason Chung has been traded around has nothing to do with what he's like off the field, and everything to do with what he's like on the field. Before ripping me for this let me say, I really enjoy watching Chung play. He's one of the better skilled players in MLS. That said, I've never felt like, "he left it all on the field." Chung is an enigma. He's always had the skill to play for the US, but walked away. He's had the skill to go abroad, but I've never heard boo about him pursuing it. Every team he's played for has urged him to step up and lead he doesn't. He's not a leader. He's cruising. He's one of the highest skilled players in MLS, but he doesn't show the heart that is required to put a team on his back and take it to the next level. He's the anti-Cobi. As awful as that sounds, I wouldn't want him on another team. He's too good to let go, but he's not a leader either. That's really o.k. if the team can allow a guy with his skills show up, do his job, do it well, and go home. Just accept it. I don't know why that would make him a cancer. I do think it is why he gets shopped around. He'll improve any MLS teams skill level. The secret is he isn't the one to turn to get wins that require more than skill.
But this is the same Chung that single handedly won two games for the Rapids last year, and saw us through to the Semis the year before... I just think Chung isn't an ALL-Around leader, he leads by example, and in most cases that should be enough, but isn't always... I just think Chung is a private man, and that extends into his game. I just think that lately Chung has been asked to do things his game isn't skilled for, and it reflected poorly on him, as opposed to the person who displaced him. As far as the Men's National team, Sampson f***** up big time when it came to him and Ralston, and by now it's too late for them, unless they want to cash in a few checks from qualifying.
Not everyone on the team can be a mentor and leader. I can't think of a sporting team in the WORLD OF SPORTS that doesn't have a guy on the team that is neither a leader nor a mentor but is so damn talented and important, that its INSANE to put him down. Yes I called you insane Some of the best athletes fall into this category: Soccer: Beasley and Mathis Hockey: Federov and Modano Basketball: Iverson and Shaq
The current Rapids would be killed without Chung. Some matches he is the only one putting full effort. He might not be the captain or the mentoring father figure, but I don't want to see him leave. The current Rapids can't live without Chung.