NSR: A gun on Every Corner: Discuss the NRA, Gun Ownership and All Those Non-Mass Shootings..

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by dapip, Feb 20, 2015.

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Do we need more strict gun laws?

  1. Repeal the second baby!

    59 vote(s)
    50.4%
  2. We need better mental healthcare..

    46 vote(s)
    39.3%
  3. A discussion on the topic would be interesting..

    33 vote(s)
    28.2%
  4. That's Liberul talk for them to take may gunz!

    9 vote(s)
    7.7%
  5. You can pry my gun from my cold dead hands..

    16 vote(s)
    13.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    It was more complicated than that in several ways-- for example some slaves took advantage of the wartime chaos to burn down houses and even kill their owners, and that was illegal under the new emancipation conditions as much as the old; and small slaveholders in the western confederacy often turned their one or two slaves out and drove them off because they could not feed them as the blockade tightened down, and these people did not all go to the Union army for help-- some scraped out whtever feral existence they could in the woods and swamps.
    Some of the folks who served in the army were demobilized without any real provision for them, and so forth. Think of all the ways one can become homeless today, and add several more unique to the conditions of their time, and then add in that lots of these people had no particular incentive to be constructive about it, and there you are. The routes were not all simple, but the results much the same.

    Same was true for the thousands of paroled Confederate soldiers who were released to just walk home from Appomattox or Central Carolina or Selma or East Texas. And the distance between guerilla and bandit is very short indeed... And a lot of them were armed or at least familiar with the use of guns and blades.

    The after math was similar to that after WWII-- a huge number of people at loose ends far from anyplace familiar-- in many cases their familiar places no longer existed-- amidst a ruined infrastructure and with a recent education in violence and rapine... The union armies marched home or became occupiers and continued to be housed and fed. The confederate soldiers, half-starved and in rags, were issued a few rations and told to go home and sin no more. Relief at the war's end turned into desperation for many-- and they were better off than lots of the freedmen.

    The rail route to the West Coast was open, and gold from Idaho was about to pay for the war and the rebuild, and a boom was in the offing-- but nobody knew that yet.
     
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  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was founded as a fraternal organization like Ralph Kramden’s Elk Lodge or whatever it was called, but within a year its originators had lost control and it became what you’re describing here.
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This isn’t true.

    And it’s not just me nitpicking…the Republican Party was founded on the free labor ideology, so they were never going to implement a 40 acres and a mule plan. To think they would is anachronistic. Republicans weren’t going to give freemen 40 acres and a mule any more than they were going to pass laws saying racial employment discrimination was illegal. It’s not how they thought or operated.

    Understanding the free labor ideology will help you understand business and labor history up through Teddy Roosevelt, who was a very different kind of Republican and upset the ideological apple cart. (Well, that plus the fact that the conditions that made Republicans come together in the 1850s over this ideology were gone in 1901. It made no sense in an industrialized and industrializing economy.)
     
  4. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Racoon Lodge you ninny...get it right! :mad:

    upload_2025-11-23_8-15-56.jpeg
     
  5. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Ireland
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    And, if I remember correctly from another article, review already issued Green cards to people of a number of countries on the list. I know a couple people who might be affected.
     
  7. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Suspect is also not a student.
     
  9. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What you're saying about the Republicans and the Free Labor ideology is true, but IIRC the genesis of the "40 acres and a mule" promise was from the sea islands of the Carolinas, where occupying Federal forces had redistributed land from former plantations to freedmen and their families. There were promises made during the war which were later broken.

    EDIT: Worth noting that the early Republicans borrowed a lot of their economic ideas from the Whigs, who formulated their thinking in a largely pre-industrial economy.
     
  10. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    Frankfort police said a suspect was taken into custody around 3:40 p.m.

    Frankfort police have identified the suspect as 48-year-old Jacob Lee Bard of Evansville, Indiana. Bard has been charged with murder and assault. Police say Bard is a parent of a KSU student.

    Frankfort police said the shooting happened in the Young Hall area, which is on the south side of campus.​


    https://www.wlwt.com/article/shooting-kentucky-state-university-victim-identified-suspect/69686825
     
  11. Kryptonite

    Kryptonite Guinness

    Apr 10, 1999
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's what I don't understand about the Luigi Mangione situation:

    Don't the cops have a right to check his backpack for their own safety? Now they're talking about having that thrown out.

    So it seems they're only gonna throw that out as evidence and it won't be a thing where the cops overstepped boundaries.

    But then what might this mean for other situations? If a cop runs someone's plates and they come back as stolen, the guy speeds away, runs red lights, drives on the wrong side of the road, etc etc....they finally pull the guy over and they see all sorts of cash, white powder and scales in the car, they're gonna test the powder.

    It seems like this might be a slippery slope here.

    Should they not be allowed to use as evidence what was found in the backpack?
     
  12. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    I'm not following the case closely enough to comment on its application here, but if you search for Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine, you'll probably find a fairly concise explanation.
     
  13. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    Cops can't go up to a person, search their stuff without permission or warrant, and use that as evidence.
     
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless they have probable cause.
     
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  15. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cops can perform what's called a "search-incident-to-arrest" of a suspect, but that usually just entails searching the person's pockets, coat, etc., that is anything that is within the person's immediate reach that could conceal a weapon posing a danger. A zipped up backpack or a suitcase or something similar not within immediate reach would usually require a separate search warrant. Obviously, it could be seized and obtaining a warrant in such circumstances could happen as quickly as the officer can find a magistrate or a judge to sign off. But they would usually have to go through said procedures first.

    That being said, I haven't followed this case closely enough to know the details of where this backpack was when Mangione was arrested.
     
  16. Kryptonite

    Kryptonite Guinness

    Apr 10, 1999
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They definitely had probable cause to search the pockets.

    You'd think someone would have to go through the backpack eventually...like say, during the initial booking process.

    I was watching a televised arrest where 4-5 people in one car were pulled over. All but one were men. The cop went through the purse, found some drugs, and of course, she denied the drugs as being hers. Of course she got in trouble for the possession.

    They all do. Every time. It may not be the operator's vehicle, but the operator is still responsible for the stuff inside. "It's not my car bro!" or "These are my cousin's pants!" or the classic "This weed and pipe shoved in my bra aren't mine! I'm merely holding them for my friend!"

    For the backpack, again, they're most likely eventually going to go through it for documentation purposes.

    It'll definitely be interesting to see what happens with the contents.
     
  17. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Inventory searches usually only apply to vehicles and containers found within legally impounded vehicles. At the point in time, LE is ready to do an inventory search, it's just as easy to get a magistrate to sign off on a warrant, which in situations like with Mangione, would be easy to get.
     
  18. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    According to defense evidence, they didn't do that. It was searched at McD and then again, with body camera off and officer alone, for an hour when damning evidence was then found.
     
  19. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the backpack was not on his person or within arm's reach when officers seized it, this might be problematic. But Judges will usually give credit to LE's testimony in a motion to suppress hearing if it's just "LE said versus Defendant said...." The body-cam being off might raise an eyebrow.
     
  20. Kryptonite

    Kryptonite Guinness

    Apr 10, 1999
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  21. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
  22. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
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  23. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    New Caledonia
    The hand of opportunity won’t be drawing tickets in a lottery.
     
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  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Piecing together all the different news articles it looks like this was the work of a very smart middle-aged Portuguese citizen who went postal. He apparently switched license plates on his rental car and used a phone modified to suppress tracking. The hall he shot up in Brown is where he attended PhD physics classes decades ago. The Portuguese MIT professor was a classmate at Instituto Superior Tecnico of Lisboa although they seem not to have been well acquainted.

    It looks like a really severe bout of mid-life crises ending in a shooting spree motivated by jealousy.
     
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  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, it’s that time of year
     

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