A great sign of MLS progress...

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by AShotByBalboa, Jun 1, 2003.

  1. AShotByBalboa

    AShotByBalboa Member

    May 3, 2003
    Taking a look at the current top scorers, I think the current dominance by USMNT players is a very significant breakthrough. I listed the table below, as well as some previous years. I think the comparison tells a good tale for US soccer: the league is developing our players.

    Granted, I'd like to see top-class guys like VanNistelrooy and Shevshenko on the list. But I know that's impossible now. So if I can't see them, I want to see Americans. No longer can scrub journeymen like Welton and Savarese come in and outplay the American crop of scorers. I think that augurs extremely well for the future of US soccer in general: MLS, National Team, Americans Abroad.

    I've always been annoyed at those type journey men players, guys who couldn't play in their own domestic leagues or national teams. I always thought they brought down the status of the league and they were hard to cheer for - knowing that they were likely soccer failures at some level. Now, the play in MLS is better. Those guys have been pushed out to a great extent. It seems like they are moving towards more capped players from CONCACAF countries, as well as men's and youth national team guys (current and former) from the US. With the odd foreign guy from a respectable European league. Good work MLS!

    Current:
    Preki, KC
    Twellman, NE
    Cunningham, CLB
    Mathis, MET
    McBride, CLB
    Beasley, CHI
    Kreis, DAL
    Kamler, NE
    Donovan, SJ
    Ching, SJ
    Razov, CHI

    2001:
    Alex Pineda Chacon
    Diego Serna
    John Spencer
    Jeff Cunningham
    John Wilmar Perez
    Preki
    Ariel Graziani
    Abdul Thompson Conteh
    Ronald Cerritos
    Eric Wynalda

    2000:
    Mamadou Diallo
    Clint Mathis
    Ante Razov
    Diego Serna
    Adolfo Valencia
    Dante Washington
    Wolde Harris
    Jason Kreis
    Ariel Graziani
    Alex Comas

    1998:
    Stern John
    Cobi Jones
    Welton
    Roy Lassiter
    Raul Diaz Arce
    Jaime Moreno
    Mauricio Cienfuegos
    Marco Etcheverry
    Ronald Cerritos
    Eduardo Hurtado
    Giovanni Savarese
     
  2. Ditto. Now, if we could only produce more Kyle Martinos.
     
  3. UxSxAxfooty

    UxSxAxfooty Member+

    Jan 23, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is great to see.

    I've always hoped I'd see Mathis and Donovan rising to the tops of the scoring charts.
     
  4. cisco39

    cisco39 Member

    May 27, 2003
    Austin, TX
    good observation

    Good point. We spend so much time analyzing and critiquing (sp?) all our players and their faults and glorifying foreigners, we may have lost sight of one of the original goals of creating the mls, which is the improvement you mention. I get so tired of the football elite (europe namely) disparaging our players and game ...... the latest example being the bbc commentators prior to the us-wales game. Bottom line: it's a team game and Americans have always had the ability to put together the best teams. Sure I am excited about the flash and excitement that players like LD and Adu, etc bring, but what's more important are the more subtle things it takes to win games when they count and we're cultivating the players that can do that.

    BTW, I met Marcelo in the Dallas airport the day after the US-Mexico game. He was in a hurry (going to prepare for the Burn broadcast that weekend), but very polite and gracious. I told him as a fan how much I appreciated what he had done for our game.
     
  5. rufus55

    rufus55 Member

    Sep 1, 2001
    It is great to see. But sometimes I wonder how much of the lack of foreigner scorers is due to salary cap considerations versus Americans being better?

    And I echo the thought on Kyle Martino.
     
  6. AShotByBalboa

    AShotByBalboa Member

    May 3, 2003
    Whatever the reason. I like the end product. I'd way rather see a young American than a third rate Argentinian who can't play in their domestic league or some journeyman central American who has never played anywhere higher than the Mexican first Division. I've always thought the MLS needs to be more selective with the foreign guys. Unless they add significant class and ability, they should not sign them. They should have to be first rate players with high level professional experience or have been capped by their country.
     
  7. rufus55

    rufus55 Member

    Sep 1, 2001
    No arguments here, dude. I want the same thing you do. It's just difficult to gauge if the Americans are genuinely better with fewer foreigners in those slots. But I agree that I'd rather see Americans in those spots under any circumstances because that's the only way we'll develop.
     
  8. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    Look at it this way. It used to be the case that foreigners were the max-salary, high-impact guys. Now the domestic crop has improved so much that americans are earning the big figures and squeezing the foreigners out of the high-salary slots.

    So while the average quality of the american group is rising, the average quality of the foreign group is dropping.

    At this rate, the 3 SI limit would quickly become irrelevant. (But we'll see another infusion of foreigners in 2 years due to expansion.)

    The irony is that MLS may end up suffering due to it's own developmental success, as the entire national team is in danger of becoming Euro-based if the salary cap can't be increased soon.
     
  9. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    If they'd work out a youth development deal with the fed this WOULD NOT be a problem, much like it's not a problem in Argentina or Brazil.
     
  10. rufus55

    rufus55 Member

    Sep 1, 2001
    I agree with dred. One problem is that our boys will all be Euro based, which is good from a developmental point of view, but bad from a national team point of view. They won't play together as often and therefore be as familiar with each other. Moreover, the more valued our boys become the less likely the Euro clubs will allow our guys extended time off for Nat duty. MLS is much more cooperative about that, and I think that helps US soccer overall. That's not to say that I want all US players to play in MLS, but there is definitely a point where it gets to be too many.
     
  11. AShotByBalboa

    AShotByBalboa Member

    May 3, 2003
    I'd love to see our system develop into something like Brazil's. I know the skill level and quality will be tough to replicate - but we have a large enough country and big enough player pool that we can eventually have a league full of Americans (with a few quality foreign additions) and many Americans playing abroad.

    That way, we get to watch our young quality players in MLS, and then see some of our classier players in Europe. For the National team, Arena (assuming he'll be around for a while) will have to select the right mix - which he's proven to be good at.

    Plus, as long as we have a decent league. Guys will come back. Like in Brazil. When I was down there, I got to see Leonardo and Juninho play for Flamengo. They were back for the season from Europe.

    Like my initial post said - I think it is great our guys are dominating the league. Whether this is naturaly or not, it doesn't matter. I'd be happy if they were better than the random foreign guys who have succeed in the past, but I'm just as happy to have them playing even if they were worse. For the future, and for the fact that it really bothered me seeing those low level journeymen out there. Until we expand a great deal, I think it would be worth tightening up those foreign restrictions some.

    As for National Team duty. I think the core players will always be used to eachother. And as long as they play together here and there, that's fine. They'll get together for tournaments and then to prepare for the World Cups. I think our qualifying group is such that we won't need our stars for every game.
     
  12. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Fixed your post. :)

    Yes, you make a great point, Americans have come a long way. But also MLS has realized the value in signing mostly Americans to play here: a better USMNT. I remember a few years back always wondering who would be called on to play striker for the US because we were stacked in the back, but had no strikers. Now we've got two, maybe three, set defenders and 6-7 of those listed could, or do, play striker for the Nats.
     
  13. todda74

    todda74 New Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    Annapolis
    just a thought, but how good would most of the teams be if no foreigners were on any of the teams? With DC it seems our highest profile foreigner, Etcheverry, is holding the team back and next year he will be gone and Convey will be stepping into his role.
    LA has Ruiz who is easily the best foreign player in the league but what other team really really needs their foreign contingent to be good?
     
  14. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    KC @ NE 5/31:
    Meola
    Conrad-Talley-Garcia
    Zavagnin-Gomez
    Klein-Preki-Quill
    Brown-Wolff

    We're looking pretty 'USAish' to me, 11/11 to be exact. Our first sub is Armstrong (S. African), Simutenkov and Fabrro play just as much forward as the other two, and they are our other two SIs.
     
  15. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kyle Martino is a sign of MLS progression... A GREAT PLAYER THAT CAME FROM NO WHERE! He's on a hard working team like the Crew.. He's gonna become a hell of a player... I've seen talent before, most likely the best Pablo Aimar, Santiago Solari, ect. And I was watching the Crew- Metro"stars" and this kid has the tools, quick, smart, and can dribble well... A winter loan to a River, Boca, San Lorenzo, or a top Brazilian team could do Kyle a world of good to get his skills better than they are now... Bruce DON'T PASS HIM UP!!!!! Am starting to like Martino in A/ Mid, with Donovan and Twellman up top!
     
  16. todda74

    todda74 New Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    Annapolis
    Martino is really good and I think to make him truly national caliber he needs to add 10 to 15 pounds so he can take the abuse at that level.
     
  17. TTweLLMan

    TTweLLMan New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Middleboro MA
    Why hello Johnny!
    Its Erik...

    Uhh Donovan hasn't really netted one this season has he???I have to go, I'm currently at school, but I'll talk to you on AIM.
     
  18. wasdykec

    wasdykec Member

    May 6, 2002
    Jax, Florida
    can someone explain to me what kind of setup there is in argentina and brazil. thanks.
     
  19. denver_mugwamp

    denver_mugwamp New Member

    Feb 9, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Foreigners now have a different role...

    I remember when the MLS was signing foreigners to try to bring fans into the games. For the most part, this was a disaster. Most teams no longer sign foreigners as saviors. (with the exception of my beloved Rapids) So now we're in a position of signing players to add to the team but not having to carry it. This is a great situation to be in.

    I don't worry about the entire USMNT going to Europe and doubt it will ever happen. There's too many problems with work rules and passports for this to happen. But if we continue to expand our youth training, we can only help ourselves. When a position is open, someone will rise up to take it. It might not be the person we expected but it will be somebody. We just have to have faith in the future.
     
  20. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    Each club has an equivalent U19, U17, U etc.... team where they develop players. This keeps a constant supply of players coming up through the ranks so when they sell Ronaldo to PSV or Ronaldinho to PSG, it doesn't really effect the quality of the leauge.
     
  21. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Same as before clubs have tams that range starting from U8 to Reserve as the base of player development. River Plate actually now has a school, as in education, where soccer is a required class every year, they scout the best talent that's in the school for just their education and intergrate them to the clubs soccer program. A total of 500- 600 players a year are seen by River Plate, either through the school, or going to other regions of the country to find talent, Ariel Ortega is from Jujuy, it would be something like the distance of NY to LA. So the clubs are constantly looking for talent.. Then you have the scouts that go to parks, watch pick up games in the street and make judgements.
     
  22. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    two goals, 4 assists ... eight points.
     
  23. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Maybe LA- St Lous, but La to Ny is exagerating.
     
  24. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Foreigners now have a different role...

    You know what's sad? Some fans still think that because a player is an SI, they should be starting, because the SI slots are valuable and shouldn't be wasted on role/bench players. No joke.

    For a good part of this season, Columbus had an all-American lineup with the exception of one green card holder, who for a while lost his spot to an American. Our two SI's are currently starting because of an injury to one American player, and another having a rough patch.
     
  25. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    I think that high quality veteran foreigners (as well as american veterans, except that there arent as many..) are needed to bring a new level of experience, leadership, and teachings of the nuances (gamesmanship) to our youngers americans..
    True, Ectheverry's current form hasnt been what it used to be, but look to what he has done since being in the league as a whole. His leadership has helped progress our domestic players.. The same could be said for Nowak, and (until thuggery became a recent part of his game) Stoitchov.

    I do believe that within 5-10 years, these veterans will be Americans, ala Earnie Stewarts/Frankie Hejduks returning from Europe when the MLS closes the gap on European leagues...
     

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