A combined league for Britain?

Discussion in 'Scotland' started by Daniel A, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. Daniel A

    Daniel A New Member

    Jul 12, 2005
    Hi!

    I´m Swedish so I´m not very knowledgeable about your leagues, but I was just wondering why the leagues of Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England are not combined into a national league for Great Britain?? :confused:

    And on the same subject, why don´t Great Britain have a single, unified national team? :confused:

    Wouldn´t that improve the football all over the country since it seems to be a huge leap in class between for example English Premier League clubs (Liverpool) and the best clubs in Wales (TNS)? I fear TNS will be gumiliated in the upcoming Champions League qualification clash tomorrow...


    Or is a matter of local pride, independence or cultural differences?? Please enlighten me... :eek:
     
  2. Scottish_Morton

    Jul 7, 2003
    Irvine, Scotland
    Scotland have had their own leagues for well over 100 years. We played in the first ever International match, against England. We are Scottish, I don't count myself as british. In footballing term we have always been seperate nations. And we played the game first so I think we have the right to have our own seperate teams and leagues.

    The better welsh sides, Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, play in the English leagues. Scotland is easily big enough to have its own thriving leagues.
     
  3. LesO'lafatselik

    LesO'lafatselik New Member

    Jul 6, 2005
    Cloud Cuckoo Land
    As a Scotsman, there's no way I could get as passionate about supporting a GB team as I do following the Scotland team. Football is one of the few areas where we can hold on to our national identity.

    As regards the leagues, Rangers & Celtic would like to join the English Premiership purely for the extra money this would bring in in TV rights. They feel that this would enable them to compete better on the European stage. However, they seem to have overlooked the fact that they wouldn't have virtually guaranteed European football every season as they do at the moment. For the remaining clubs in Scotland, this would have mixed results. Without the big 2, they would have less money coming in from TV and thru Old Firm attendances. On the plus side, more teams would have a realistic chance of becoming champions and qualifying for Europe.

    In any case, none of the above will ever happen. There is no real benefit to the English clubs to allow the Old Firm to join the Premiership. They already have enough big teams and the addition of the OF wouldn't attract a significant increase in their TV rights.
     
  4. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Yep.

    Plus, what would most Welsh, Northern Irish or indeed Scottish clubs have to offer the English system? The vast, vast majority of clubs from these nations are nowhere near the standard required for the English leagues, and would thus remain in regional pyramid systems. Remember, when Gretna moved from the English to the Scottish league, they jumped from the Northern 1st Division right into the SFL Division 3!

    Rangers and Celtic fans are probably getting moist over this idea, but from both cultural and feasibility standpoints the idea doesn't make much sense.

    Above all, though, I am Scottish and I support Scottish football.
     
  5. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Who would be for adding the word 'Britain' into the swear filter.
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Because anyone who tries to merge the Scottish league with the EPL knows that he's going to be killed in his bed by William Wallace.
     
  7. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Nobody would try it because it's a patently ludicrous idea. They'd probably be killed first of all by the more populous English fans who'd resent the extra travel and the extra drain on their money.
     
  8. baltobhoy

    baltobhoy New Member

    Apr 2, 2005
    Baltimore
    both OF teams would be better off in the EPL. more money and better competition. they each have a fan base bigger than most EPL teams. with competent leadership they could easily challenge the best of the EPL. i'm no legal expert but the OF teams are in the UK, and it looks like they are being barred from practising business and market access. it's a bit like La Liga not allowing Catalan teams in; Budesliga excluding Bavarian teams; Serie A excluding Sicilian teams.
    as an added plus, the atmosphere in both OF parks would increase, since the fans would be less bored.
     
  9. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    I knew giving an Old Firm fan positive reputation would come back to bite me in the ass - and it did, five minutes later! All your good work on the World Cup thread, undone!

    Who, exactly, is blocking the "business and market access"? Oh, that's right - the EPL, who have never made anything even approximating a formal approach to the Old Firm to join their league, as they don't want the Old Firm joining it. There's an idea - you could start a lawsuit based on blocking free, autonomous business, and in doing so, force the EPL to accept Rangers and Celtic! That's genius! That way, EVERYONE gets free market access... oh, except the EPL, which would be forced to accept teams it didn't want.
     
  10. baltobhoy

    baltobhoy New Member

    Apr 2, 2005
    Baltimore
    the main point is in the next to last sentence. you still have a group of businesses banding together to suppress competition from other businesses within the same nation.
    if i saw 2 large clubs from, say, Munich in Bavaria, excluded from access to the German market by the Bundesliga, it would seem very fishy indeed.
     
  11. Colm

    Colm Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    UK
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'm with you on that

    I consider myself english not British, i could never get pasionate about a GB team

    :cool:
     
  12. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Yes, because the Bundesliga is a league run by the DFB, the German Football Association. As there is no British Football Association, we have no parallels to draw. There is the Football Association, which has had foreign clubs as members in the past (Gretna, Newport County) and present (Wrexham, Cardiff, Swansea) but fully reserves the right not to accept them for whatever reason they should choose - such as the existence of a Scottish Football Association, or not wanting to have the Old Firm tarnishing their leagues, but that's another discussion entirely.

    Edit: Actually, wait, I take this all back. Greenock is in Scotland, where the Scottish Premier League is based. I demand Morton is given access to the SPL, starting tomorrow, or I'll cry racism or something.
     
  13. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Piss poor examples. You'd only be right if there was a UK or British League and the OF were excluded from it but there's not. They have no right to play in the national championship of England anymore than English teams have the right to compete in the national championship of Scotland.

    Yet another American who doesn't understand the politics :rolleyes:
     
  14. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ....

    Maybe you should stop posting until you gain some knowledge on the subject you're talking about.
     
  15. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    But English teams (Berwick Rangers) DO play in the SFL, and until 2001 Gretna played in the English League. Teams like Cardiff and Merthyr still do.

    The crux of the issue is that the leagues are free to admit who they want and who they don't want. Only if the league called itself a British league and advertised free ownership would it be a problem.

    If the EPL, say, blocked Rangers and Celtic from broadcasting in England, or the Old Firm wanted to move their stadia to Manchester or something, that would be a better example, but it's clearly not going to happen.
     
  16. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Berwick applied to the Scottish league and were allowed to join because they're much closer to the Scottish teams than to the English. However they have no divine right to be there. The same applies to the Welsh teams in England who were members of the English league long before Welsh Nationalism had started to reappear.
     
  17. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    I had read somewhere that UEFA was also vehemently opposed to the OF clubs joining the EPL, going so far as to say it would cost the SPL their places in Europe,
     
  18. celtic76

    celtic76 Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    WI USA
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Aye CM, you are right. There was mention of UEFA pulling the CL away from the SFA if the Old Firms left. Think about it really its not that hard to see the Old Firm's easily have a 60,000 minium fan base locally not to mention all of the suporters who can't actually get into the grounds. Both Old Firm clubs have even more supporters who are not on the Isle. Celtic was pulling 40k on its way to Seville thats a lot of monies its bringing. Then toss on revenues from advertising, and other kick backs. No we mean too much money to the likes of UEFA and the SFA and therefore we will be hear next year, and again......
     
  19. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    It's still an English team in the SFL, and three Welsh teams in the full English league setup, and at least five (that is, plus Merthyr and Newport, and whatever other ones I don't know about) in the English league set-up. When it comes to nationalism, all bets are off when profits are on the table - particularly as neither Rangers nor Celtic seem to be particularly bothered about being Scottish clubs. I imagine most Rangers fans are cracking semis at the prospect of joining the English ranks so they can enjoy their Burberry garbs and Kasabian CDs in the company of like-minded people.
     
  20. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    That'd be a dream come true for UEFA, who, like FIFA, would like nothing more than for the troublesome small associations such as Scotland to ******** off so they can concentrate on milking TV money from the big nations.
     
  21. nach0king

    nach0king Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Dallas Proper
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    p.s.

    Why would that be of any consequence with regards to the OF joining the EPL? If the OF leave the SPL, and UEFA "punish" the SPL, how does that in any way punish the OF?
     
  22. Dai Kiwi

    Dai Kiwi New Member

    Jul 11, 2005
    Even if the OF were to enter the EPL they would be barred from competing in the European competition. My team Swansea play in the English pyramid and are stymied from European football, even if we made the premier league from League 1 after the FA clarified the situation of Welsh clubs (such as Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham) last year. The FA ruled that only English clubs could represent it in the Euro competitions - so if the OF joined they would be out of Europe.

    As for a British league, the top Welsh clubs have always played in England, Swansea joined the Southern League on its foundation in 1912 and have played in every level of the professional game in its 93 year history. The Welsh FA also has several English clubs in its league, with Oswestry Town and Airbus in the FAW premier division. The top club TNS, which went down to Liverpool 3-0 yesterday, has merged with Oswestry and is likely to move its base across the border from Llansantfraid to a place like Chester.

    The Welsh have no problem playing in England although it appears that it is only the historical link which keeps us there.
     
  23. Arwel

    Arwel New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    Crewe, UK
    Hang on! Airbus is a Welsh team - they come from Broughton which is on our side of the border a couple of miles from Chester, and despite being on the wrong side of the border Oswestry Town were founder members of the FAW back in 1870-something - and that was the deciding factor when UEFA allowed them to merge with TNS a couple of years ago; presumably that's also why TNS' new stadium is being built in Oswestry. As for Chester City, the border actually runs through the middle of their ground...
     
  24. slidingtackleCOM

    slidingtackleCOM New Member

    Jul 3, 2005
    This is what annoys me about UEFA, they don't have a clue. The Scottish economy and Scottish football would suffer in the short term, however with the OF out of the way you have the potential to have a league of 12 teams all competing for the championship. This will attract interest from all over and will benefit the national game with the OF no longer there to poach young Scottish talent from the smaller sides. Gordon Strachan has said he thinks it will happen eventually, however he also said that it is imperative that the league itself is secure before their departure. I would welcome their departure, i think we would also have one of the few leagues in the world regularly producing young players who will feature week in week out.

    However in no way would i welcome a GB team. It would act against the nationalistic intentions of our individual nations, we are all after all different. We are united for a reason, we are friends politically, but this is football, it is far more important :D
     
  25. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ok, so assuming they are able to say they have a legal right to play in the English leagues, why do you assume that means they'd automatically join the premiership? If they joined they'd have to start at the bottom of the pyramid, or at least at the feeder level where they take applications rather than have a formal promotion process. I can't see Rangers & Celtic being too keen on joining the Unibond league Div2 somehow.

    All clubs have a right to play in a league system, but none have a right to play in any particular division - that has to be earned, otherwise you'd get the likes of Blyth Spartans taking the premiership to court because they aren't being allowed to play in the premiership.

    Besides, it isn't the premiership that's barring them.


    A British league would be pretty disastrous for football outside England. Outside of the old firm, none of the clubs would be (financially) strong enough to get into the premiership. In fact even the bigger other clubs would struggle (again, financially) in the championship. You'd see a dozen or so Scottish clubs scattered among the four divisions, and the rest playing non-league football.
     

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