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Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Treetaliano, Sep 27, 2003.
HT La Louviere leads 1-0
Gooch with a save off the line in the first half.
Onyewu sauve in extremis son camp devant un Liégeois. Proto était en effet passé à côté du ballon.
62' min still 1-0 Louviere
that's 4 straight starts for gooch.
Why doesn't Arena call this guy in?!!!! What does he have to do, play more than 4 games for a European team? Give me a break!
(call him up) Actually, you jest.....but any central defender starting/playing well in a top league Euro league (OK, it is Belgium....middle-tier at best...)
But, you've gotta put him on your radar screen...just the way it is....US doesn't have much talent or depth in middle....we don't have 5 centerbacks playing at Arsenal, Lazio, PSG, Barcelona, etc...
Yup, Bruce should call him up....he's certainly called up quite a few players with worse resumes before..
We haven't scheduled any NATs friendlies in so long I just figured that the travel budget has been exhausted.
Besides, four starts for team in league that is comparable to the A-league doesn't necessary warrent a call-up.
2-0... good road win... brings them to 8th place
Um...anyone want to bite on this?
i think you are underestimating the Jupiler league... you heard of clubs like Anderlecht and FC Bruges right? If not, go play CM and you see how if they're any good.
Lokeren, currently 2nd to last, played in UEFA cup wednesday and lost to man city 3-2. Yeah, this is middle tier league, prolly comparable to Dutch Eredivisie.
I, for one, think Belgian league is better than MLS, by a bit, all things considered.....you take away MLS physicality, and the top 3-4 players on each MLS team...and there is quite a drop-off (in my opinion) in MLS..
Tactically, and skill-wise, I think Belgian (and many Euro players) are better "players" (maybe not athletes, but soccer players)....especially when talking an entire squad...
The pace of MLS is not there yet....too much freedom given in too many situations, and play is a bit slow (many times)..and slow thinking/creativity-wise
MLS games in certain spots can be extremely physical, and fast....of course, the top 3-4 players on most MLS squads are quality, and with an adjustement...can hang with top league players most of the time...
Every US soccer player that goes to Europe comments (Wade Barrett latest example) on how they have to "adjust" to faster thinking and tactics...
Actually, Arena has already had Gooch in camp before -- unoffiically.
I usually am a champion of the you-have-to-prove-it-as-a-pro crowd, but Gooch is such an obvious talent, I would be shocked not to see him in the first camp where he can participate without hurting his club standing.
And really, no one will win the which league is "better" competition -- both MLS and the Belgian leagues are adequate places to prove yourself international caliber and develop.
Belgian league is better than A-League. How it compares to MLS is up for debate.
Belgium, like most non-MLS leagues is fairly stratified between the top clubs and the rest. Anderlecht obviously being the giants.
As a guess, I'd say even level with MLS for the most part, but a much different style and method of play. jri actually had it right that the depth level at MLS suffers a bit. On the other hand, a full strength Chicago Fire (or even the Crew) might give the league a real test for pace and physicality.
As far as Gooch and the National Team, for now the Olympic team is fine for him. They'll be playing more than the senior team in the next six months anyway (and likely against better competition). We likely won't need him for qualifying until after the Olympics, so his spot on the depth chart can be re-evaluated then.
I doubt Arena will feel that way. Arena will be real sensitive to Gooch's club team; but I doubt that the existance of the Olympics will prevent Arena from brining Gooch in if a good opportunity presents itself.
Perphaps, and if Olympic play were equal to full Nats play, you would have a point. But it isn't.
It's not about need. It's about (1) seeing if Gooch can cut it with the full nats AND (2) if so, getting him integrated into the team well before the first seious match. If Arena can do this without upseting Gooch's club situation, he will try to do it, Olympics or no.
We're certainly not going to find that out by next summer regardless of where he plays, unless we already know the answer to that question.
While Olympic play may not be full nats play, the level of competition almost certainly will be higher than most of what we'll face in the open qualifying round.
Unless Arena sees Gooch as a short term right-back possibility. Then maybe he's worth a call. But otherwise, why call him in from Belgium or France or wherever just to sit him on the bench behind Bocanegra and Pope?
I hate to say it, but i actually agree with you. this is starting to be a trend voros! LOL but seriously, playing for the Olympic squad is CERTAINLY more preparation than playing against Anguilla or St. Kitts/Nevis. i don't see how anyone can disagree with that. Its just a matter of time, if he continues to play well, that we get this guy over here though. although, we have 2 guys "set in stone", there are still questions about the other guys back there. Califf? I hope not. Berhalter? please give me a break. Gibbs? Gooch? Dunivant? Yi? We need to figure out if these guys can get the job done. They are no longer 17 years old, and there is no reason to have someone who can help us sitting on the sideline at the age of 24/25 at the next WC when he is better than those in front of him (see Agoos, Regis, Berhalter, instead of Bocanegra at '02 .......... go figure that one).
I think it is possible that the USMNT will play some friendlies or possibly Copa America during this time frame. My opinion is that Arena will be more interested in these games than the Olympics, though I don't see why Gooch can't do both.
Because the Belgian coach thinks he is better in the center for his team? Because of Big Soccer reports that he is too big for right back? I think right back, given the lack of serious contenders other than Dolo, will be one thing Arena will want to look at.
Yes, as we all know it how Eddie Pope is always available for the Nats. If anybody should be given a vacation from the Nats -- it is Pope, for his own good and that of the Nats.
And we also have a left back problem that Boca might be able to solve and Arena might want to look at that, thus freeing up a central position -- if that turns out to be Gooch's best position.
the debate begins...
Wow, I really started something with that sarcastic quip...
Comparable, perhaps, in the sense that one make a comparison, but the comparison will not favour Belgium.
But I agree with the concept. Belgium is likely better than most Americans would expect.
I think the best players in the MLS could do very well in Belgium, but its the 9-22nd players in MLS who would struggle with the pressure and fail.
Its been said, and said repeatedly - the speed of the game, the tactical awareness and overall skill level is higher in any European league (well maybe not Scotland).
Okay back to watching Tulane get their ass handed to them.
All this input about the NATs defense makes me have a little more hope for the future. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing a defense of Gooch, Pope, Gibbs, and Bocanegra!!! There's speed, size, offensive savvy (especially on set plays -- which we need to work on MUCH more!), and maybe most important, youth (with the exception of Pope) to form a solid defense.
That's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. You take a way the top 3 or 4 players and you have like $74.83 in cap room...of course there is a dropoff.
Uh, salary cap doesn't have THAT much to do with it...you've got plenty of folks in MLS who suck /average making 100-200k, and some guys making 30-50k who are among best players on team...
One could make an argument, because of better TV dollars, that your average Euro player makes better $$, and therefore should be better....but it runs deeper than that.....they (Euros) just have a longer history, deeper soccer education...grass roots playing from kids (like our basketball) 8 hrs a day anywhere they can...you just can't teach some of the stuff Euros do...even in smaller leagues....simple, but subtle things like proper change of pace...using all parts of your foot, etc....it comes from having soccer as your #1 sport, and most of your best athletes playing it....but we ARE getting there, witness a player like Martino...
So back at ya'...
BTW- I agree with the poster that would like to see a Boca, Pope, Gibbs, Gooch backline...if those players (younger) develop well, that would be a very interesting combination....certainly, every in the air (if Sir Timmy can get over his occasionally "crossing issue") would be ours...baby
i go along with captain10 and jri, but i don't think that bruce will use those guys (boca, pope, gibbs, gooch) together. they are all potential centerbacks.
gibbs is a more likely candidate than gooch is for playing outside, but he did not convince in his left back outing in the confed cup, and gooch does not play right back anymore, so bruce will still be looking to fill those slots with other prospects.
Re: the debate begins...
>I>Originally posted by The Toe
Besides, four starts for team in league that is comparable to the A-league doesn't necessary warrent a call-up. </I>
I followed it with some more meat. The boards have been boring as of late.
Gibbs is crap.He is young , n he will get better ..maybe?