9/24/02: March to the Cup

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by GPK, Sep 24, 2002.

  1. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    that CSULB one is California State University at Long Beach's student newspaper
     
  2. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I read the first part of this story and then thought, damn, Tatu is no longer being allowed to leave the rest home he no doubt lives in. Then I scrolled down and, lo and behold, it says that next year's MLS schedule will have a July break, and MLS cup will be in mid-November (Carson City, anyone?)

    And yeah, I posted it to the ongoing thread sparked by Jamie Trecker's column.

    Good find on the Cal State LB paper, Jim.
     
  3. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't Nick yesterday say OZ would be staying around. From the Ledger:

    From the Boston Globe:
    Bring It On, I say, if only for ease of the scheduling process for spectators, television, and ticket-sellers. 12 out of 18 playoff games midweek is dumb. Wed - Sat - Wed // Sat - Wed - Sat. 6 games in 18 days = Nutty.

    I never get tired of hearing this:

    It's still true today if you ask me, just less successful.

    Lots of good reading today. Thanks. Looks like we may get some real announcements at MLS Cup 2002.
     
  4. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When Team B routs Team A 6-0 in game 1, then game 2 will really be exciting in the 2-game format.
     
  5. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Bell didn't exactly attribute anything in the NYT story when it came to MLS, now did he?

    Sounds like he just took his info from Trecker's column. Sloppy reporting -- although, to be fair, he had a good story on Tatu.

    But did Tatu ever buy that home back in Sao Paulo? Heck, he's probably got one each in Texas and Brazil.
     
  6. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    how often do you think that is going to happen though??

    i mean be realistic... home and home is much better than a 3 games series
     
  7. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not often, but it was used in the article to somehow discredit the first-to-5 series. One of the best things about the first-to-5 format is that if there is a blowout, the subsequent games still matter.

    Not for a seeded tournament that should provide some motivation for teams to do well in the regular season.
     
  8. kpaulson

    kpaulson New Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Washington DC
    Well, wasn't it Chicago that beat New England in a game 3 6-0?

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part...
     
  9. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    Once again--they can still have a two game home and home, but use the mini-game and pks, instead of aggregate goals if tied. Therefore, I guess it is a first to 4 system over two games, and not a first to five over 3 games.

    Award the higher seeded team the second game. Therefore, the higher seeded team has the benefit of hosting the mini-game and the pks in front of their home crowd.
     
  10. kpaulson

    kpaulson New Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Washington DC
    Wow.
    Not just coverage, but insight and analysis. Maybe the quality of MLS coverage IS getting better...
     
  11. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they insist on making the playoffs home-and-home, then they should make the seed the next tiebreaker after aggregate goals, like they do in Mexico. That would be a serious advantage to the higher seed.
     
  12. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    I've always hated this system. I don't like any tiebreaker that isn't decided on the field.
     
  13. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both sides have a good point.

    So, how can you have a home and home series and still give the higher seed the advantage?
     
  14. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Doesn't the higher seed already have an advantage in that it is playing a (nominally) weaker team? LA worked hard all year for the right to play the 3rd worst team in the league. By the same token, if KC had performed better over the course of the season, they wouldn't have to play LA (and nobody wants to play LA right now). There's your regular-season motivation right there.
     
  15. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    I agree with Mattbro--higher seeded teams play supposedly weaker teams.

    But, as I stated above, if you didn't use an aggregate goal system, and used a mini-game followed by PKs after the second game, AND if you gave the second game to the higher seeded team, then the higher seeded would:
    -have better control over their fate by knowing how they would have to perform in front of their home crowd in the second game;
    -have the mini-game and the PKs in front of their home crowd, if necessary;
    -have the advantage of wrapping up the series in front of their home crowd.

    And if you wanted to quarters and semis up in two weeks, you could design it so that the higher seeded team got the Saturday night game instead of a mid-week game. Therefore, first game could always be Wednesday (or Thursday, for ESPN2), and the second game could always be Saturday night, assuming the stadium is available. Therefore, the higher seeded team would have the raw potential of attracting a bigger crowd, and netting a bigger income, than the lower seeded team.
     
  16. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the other hand, the difference between the good teams and the bad in MLS is razor-thin. LA may have had the best record in the league, but they only had 51 points. Meanwhile, DC was worst in the league and still had 32 points. The difference between the #2 record in the league (San Jose) and the number #4 record (Colorado) was two points.

    So I don't think that a #2 seed is all that much better off by playing the #7 seed than they would be by finishing #5 and playing the #4 seed. In fact, I would say that it's very marginal.
     
  17. Bambule GK

    Bambule GK New Member

    Aug 16, 2000
    The ATL
    Ya know what though, we wring our hands waaaaaay too much about this.


    Ultimately, what is the more streamlined and marketable approach? Seriously, ask yourself that without a knee-jerk reaction. (not saying your inclined to knee-jerkism, just saying in general).


    It is 1,000 times simpler to explain a home and home playoff system than the first-to-five. And that's extremely important when building up a fan base.


    I think a lot of folks forget that when they discuss the playoff sytem. As it stands, only the truly indoctrinated come close to getting it. The media and the casual fan just throw up their hands in befuddlement.


    And KC's blowout to Morelia (which is the example du jour of why home and home is soooo awful) is (1)OT because its not MLS v. MLS and (2) an anamoly in the context of the MLS.

    Some stat geek can prove me wrong, but how many games were decided by 3 or more goals this year? Not many I bet. I'd wager that a vast majority of wins were by one goal, a ton were 2 goal and only a handful (under 10) were 3 or more.
     
  18. Bambule GK

    Bambule GK New Member

    Aug 16, 2000
    The ATL
    Shouldn't conference winners (or #1 and #2 in single table) get a first round bye?

    3 vs. 8

    4 v. 7

    5 v. 6

    #1 plays lowest seeded winner of this first round
    #2 plays next lowest.

    Somewhat similiar to the Wild Card system employed in different iterations by the NFL.
     
  19. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    that wouldn't work for eight teams... it would for six teams, but not eight
     
  20. Bambule GK

    Bambule GK New Member

    Aug 16, 2000
    The ATL
    Duh. Man, that was idiotic.

    There's also the issue of gate receipts...
     
  21. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    :D... all good, we all ************ up from time to time


    i think part of the thought with that is that they will have more time to promote games, games will also be during the weekend and so attendance should rise for the playoffs... the last couple of years have been pretty bad for the playoffs... and the mls cups are usually fairly solid

    -jim
     
  22. Emile

    Emile Member

    Oct 24, 2001
    dead in a ditch
    I think this logic is potentially defeated by the system that you favor. The two-game aggregate system, without considering relative team strengths, gives only a very small inherent advantage to the higher-seeded team. Therefore, battling for post-season seeds means very little, so there is little initiative for a good team to not rest key players or sandbag games on the way. Thus, it seems to me, the advantage gained from playing a 'weak' team may not exist at all as the standings may not represent actual team strength. A good team can save themselves during the reg season and bank on a good win at home and a Game 2 bunker.

    I just wish they'd leave the damn thing alone for a little while.
     
  23. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    i often wonder if people argue just to see themselves say something

    :D
     

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