9/12/07: International

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by GPK, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member+

    MLS
    Nov 5, 2004
    Denver or NOLA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Argies to BMO just means pointy ball lines and field turf again. Only difference is which futbol team screws over which football team. Just like MLS '96.

    Good to see RLS and STL coming along nicely, and Chivas USA actually starting to present a facade of wanting to succeed.
     
  2. sirfallsalot_2000

    Apr 18, 2006
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    AC St. Louis
    From the STL article:

    "Cooper said he expects a decision on a team could come in 60 to 90 days, which on the short side would put the announcement right around the time of the league's championship game, MLS Cup, on Nov. 18. An expansion team would need to be approved by the league's board of governors."

    This is exactly why I nominated "60-90 days" for the expansion tagline. Always good to see it in print.

    also:
    "The league wants to expand in even numbers because of the scheduling headaches that come with an odd number of teams, which could mean two in 2009 and two more in 2010."

    Although this would be 5 teams in 3 years, it would certainly ease the tension in the expansion race between STL, Philly and Seattle. Anyone else heard anything about this?
     
  3. Soccerdude redded

    Oct 14, 1999
    NY
    What does "undisclosed stake in the club" means?. Is he going to be a part owner of the team?.I am a bit confused about this deal.
     
  4. GPK

    GPK BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 5, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, he is now part owner of the team as well
     
  5. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't blame the owners for wanting to cash in on expansion clubs. However, five teams in threee years seems like a lot to digest. Five teams in five years - maybe.
     
  6. Revs007

    Revs007 Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Boston

    Why wait? Soccer is not like other sports in this country. The talent pool is virtually limitless, it's just a matter of MLS tweaking its rules to accomodate future growth.

    I will say anyting over 18 teams is pushing it - but because I think 18 teams is the perfect number for a professional soccer league in this country.
     
  7. Soccerdude redded

    Oct 14, 1999
    NY
    That is good,because he's more motivated now to put more butts in the seats or do what ever it takes to get more of soccer fans interested in Chivas USA brand of the so called real Chivas .
     
  8. Soccerdude redded

    Oct 14, 1999
    NY
    18 teams has a much better TV foot-print then 13 or 14 teams.
     
  9. lou czar

    lou czar Member

    Sep 26, 2003
    CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    undisclosed is what percentage.
     
  10. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    Because we've seen what happened to the NHL and NASL.
     
  11. Soccerdude redded

    Oct 14, 1999
    NY
    Can a gringo succeed where his Latino predecessor Javier Leon could not?
     
  12. KaptPowers

    KaptPowers Member

    Dec 29, 2003
    Arlington, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When your hardcore support abandons you at home to watch "the real" Chivas play a meaningless friendly in another city against a K-League side....it can't get much worse.
     
  13. Soccerdude redded

    Oct 14, 1999
    NY
    NASL had one good team but 23 bad ones. When you get 18 teams with SSS and control over all the monies going to the teams, I don't see any problems here. I am sure ESPN brass would be happy to have their dream of 1 million viewers for the MLS Thursday night games come through a lot faster with 18 team league.As far as NHL,I care less because it doesn't interest me at all.
     
  14. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did Cooper ever work for the MetroStars?
     
  15. Soccerdude redded

    Oct 14, 1999
    NY
    Damn I was going to say that.That's Nick's 60-90 days. He should get a copy -right for 60-90 days thing.
     
  16. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will agree that 5 teams in 3 years is unprescedented.

    Still, it's not as drastic as what happened in the NASL. That was 6 teams in ONE year. None of which had stadiums being built for them.

    Despite this being a little closer to the NASL, there are still enough differences that I don't think we need to worry too much.

    • MLS attendances in the teams that are here right now is higher than just about any annual NASL average.
    • Nearly all MLS teams have solid control of their revenue streams
    • A significant number of US players are currently in the league, and with all the yanks abroad, USL and college players, there are plenty of players to choose from in expansion. And, as has been pointed out in other threads, the international players rules can be adjusted to keep the quality of play up.
    • In 11 years, only two teams have shut down, and only one has been moved. I can't possibly summarize all the folding and moving that happened in the 17 years of the NASL. If you want a recap, go here.

    That's just a short list. I'm sure there are others that can be added.

    ...

    I thought I'd leave the detailed NASL comparison for others to do, but now that I think about it, I feel I need to go into more detail.

    Let's look at one particular 5 year period, to give you a feel for what happened:

    Year 8 (1974)
    2 teams folded
    8 teams added
    15 teams

    Year 9 (1975)
    5 teams added
    20 teams

    Year 10 (1976)
    2 teams moved
    20 teams

    Year 11 (1977)
    2 teams folded
    3 teams moved
    18 teams

    Year 12 (1978)
    6 teams added
    4 teams moved
    24 teams

    In 5 years, the NASL added 19 teams, 4 teams folded, and 9 teams moved.

    In the 5 years from 2003-2007 (the same 8th-12th years of the league), MLS will have added 3 teams, and moved 1.

    So, if MLS adds 5 teams in 3 years, it will be a lot. But it will in no way compare to the NASL.
     
  17. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It may not interest you, but it does interest me. Though we may not care about the sport particularly, it certainly can teach us a lesson about how careful MLS needs to be about expanding.

    Anyone out there care to give us an NHL history lesson? Since I'm not familiar with it, it may take me a bit to find that info.
     
  18. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I think they should take it slow with expansion. Adding 2 teams every 4 years would make sense.
    Five in 3 years is crazy. Where would they get the players from ? The quality would go down and create a lot of confussion.
    They should stop at 16 teams and be sure they are stable and make a profit.

    Any new investors/markets should form and MLS2 and work their way up prove themselves. I dont think there are enough markets and cities to keep afloat so many MLS teams without a downfall. We don't want to repeat an NASL with 20 plus teams in one year and down to 8 soon after.
     
  19. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As others have pointed out, there's plenty of room in the international players rules to adjust things so that there are enough players to keep the quality of play up. The salary cap is also very tight. If they loosen it up just a little (which they should be able to afford with the various new sponsorships on jerseys, etc.), there are several US players that have gone overseas to lower level leagues (like Sweden and Denmark) that could stay here.

    I like the idea of an MLS2, and would love to see it happen. It's something that makes sense to me, but I have my doubts about whether the billionaires investing in MLS see it that way.

    I'm also sure that everyone involved in MLS wants to avoid the NASL meltdown. Which is why a stadium for every new team is a high priority. It gives each team much better control over their finances than the NASL teams did.
     
  20. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, I've found an NHL expansion history. And they added 5 teams in 3 years from '91 to '93, taking the league from 21 teams to 26. They added 4 more teams in '98, '99 and 2000.

    Despite the player/league troubles and loss of ESPN air time, they haven't contracted since '78, though many franchises have moved around.

    This makes me wonder where the idea that NHL has serious problems comes from. It makes me wonder if we're not buying into the opinions of Big 3 Sport Talk commentators. Then again, the page I found only goes through 2004. And, as I don't pay that close attention to the NHL, maybe I missed something.

    I do agree that the NHL messed up when it had its player/owner troubles whenever that was that lost them a season. And I don't like the idea of MLS getting to that point. I'd much prefer that the owners and Garber think long term and plan for the league getting big enough that it has these kinds of troubles.

    But I don't think 5 teams in 3 years will get us there. My impression is that it wasn't necessarily expansion that bit the NHL, but the idea that they were (NFL/MLB/NBA) bigtime and deserved bigtime pay.

    Though there are a number of fans and sports talk personalities that are convinced that MLS will never matter unless it's as big or bigger than EPL, etc., I don't think that the MLS owners think that way.

    Though there are Euro leagues for hockey, I expect the NHL is still top of the heap.

    MLS will never have that problem. It could, in the future, become one of several top leagues. There's a rotation in Europe, with England currently (arguably) on top, but since I've been following the sport regularly ('94), Italy, Germany and Spain have all had legitimate claims on having the best league in the world.

    If a couple decades from now, the US gets included in that list, the economics of competition will probably still prevent any sort of player/owner impasse like the one that hit the NHL.
     
  21. denver_mugwamp

    denver_mugwamp New Member

    Feb 9, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Yes, the basic problem with Chivas USA may be the Chivas concept itself. It just doesn't seem to work to try to transfer your brand to a different team. Hopefully this has killed all the plans by other foreign clubs to start MLS teams wearing their shirts. I wouldn't be surprised if this this Cooper guy hasn't been brought in to figure out what to do--move to another city or build their own stadium in a another section of LA.
     
  22. sirfallsalot_2000

    Apr 18, 2006
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    AC St. Louis
    Just an observation about Chivas USA (please don't ream me for this)

    I never ever see "Chivas USA" listed as a favorite club for anyone on BS.

    Does that say anything?
     
  23. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    There only so many billionaires to go around. Do you realy want someone who is not up to that to be an MLS owner ? I certainly dont and that is excatly the case if we over expand. MLS2 would be a perfect fit for potential owner/investores who want to be in it but not spend that kind of money and want to try their luck with soccer
     
  24. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    in 1996 MLS added 10 teams in one year.

    talk about a crazy expansion.
     

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