7/9 Gold Cup: US vs. Canada Post Game Thread [R]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by dark knight, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I concur. This was not a poor performance by the US by any means. They controlled play for almost the entire game. Canada defended well for the most part.

    I have only two criticisms:

    1. Tactically, I thought the decision to break the bunker by attacking the corners and crossing was dubious since our 3 forward attacking players (Donovan, Wolff, and Noonan) are not known as outstanding headers of the ball. I think we should have occasionally attacked faster and more often tried attacks up the middle channel.

    2. (beating a dead horse alert) - Vanney is not a very good defender. Nor is he particularly smart. He had two very bad give aways in the middle third of the field, one right at the start of the game. They didn't hurt us but against a team with better forwards, it could have been costly.

    Left back = tough nut for BA to crack.

    You need someone (ala Little Stevie on the right) who can get forward, but you can't afford a defensive liability. Hmmm...lets hope someone steps up in the next 6 months.
     
  2. kjksccr

    kjksccr Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    San Carlos, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I think if Bruce wants his best players on the field you will see JOB behind Eddie Lewis on the left. I think this explains why you see DMB inside. Bruce wants him to get used to playing there--I also think Bruce could use DMB like PSV as an outright winger when needed.

    JOB brings a lot of composure to the team and if he stays fit for a year he has to be part of the picture for Germany.
     
  3. mickhayafe

    mickhayafe New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    Bakersfield, CA
    If we hadn't scored that goal, mentally I would consider it a draw, like winning on a PK, I don't consider it a solid win...maybe that's just me

    I guess it's like well "we won cause they screwed up" type of thinking
     
  4. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Austin FC
    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, it was kind of a relief that we scored. Did you notice the distinct lack of goal celebration by the players? It was kind of like, okay, yeah, we scored, game over, whew.
     
  5. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I'm not sure the best players on the field are always the most effective, but obviously it's Bruce's call. Can JOB play left back to perfection? How much more does he bring to LB than someone else, and whoever replaces him in the center has to bring that much more to the center of the field.
     
  6. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely. The way to break down a bunker is with precise movement -- by both the players and the ball. The bunkering team is happy to let you get in the corner and throw a ball into a mix that is mostly defenders.

    Even more, our younger players can combine and move quickly through the middle. So we need to channel the ball through the middle of the field where our quickness is an advantage. When we get wide out to the touchline in the final third, we are in a very tough position to be effective.
     
  7. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LD has been on fire. I know I've been his harshist critic but he is FINALLY putting this team on his back and taking them to the promise land. With good LT. like DMB, and JOB, Keller, and Gooch. This USA team may take the gold up hands down. I didn't see the game, left it taping going to see it today. But Am happy with the results. 4-1, 2-0.. Not bad at all. I hope I see the USA at Giants Stadium and I'll be there, River Plate flag and all.
     
  8. J_Ibarra

    J_Ibarra BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 5, 2005
    Conrad?Everytime there's a long pass, he always loses. He's off the pace, and need a lot of work to be even considered on the bench for germany.

    It's hard to see Pope struggle at times. I think he lost some of his speed and quickness over the years. He's the most seasoned defender we've got. He'll bounce back.

    Who I want on CBs are Onyewu and Gibbs. Gooch is dominating, but I know this is Canada. Gibbs held his own against England. Great fight between him and Alan Smith.

    Cherundolo, He's perfect. I hope he stays healty.

    LB?????? Vanny, I can't really say he can't defend, He made mistakes, losses the ball. Alright, Hes not a good defender but maybe because he's pushing forward all the time and lack the speed to compensate.



    GO USA!
     
  9. macheath

    macheath New Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    DC
    Some folks are far too pleased with a bare 2-0 win over Canada (!), essentially 1-0 with an own goal providing the difference until the 90th minute. When Johnson is back, we'll see how it goes. Beasley and Donovan have fantastic communication, need to be on the field together, hard to figure the exact formation (except in almost any version, doesn't look great for Reyna.) Wolff isn't it at this level--best he can do is use speed to generate corner kicks, can't finish, doesn't get involved in effective combination play. Noonan--great vision, good field sense, probably too slow at the end of the day.

    Onyewu--he's improving rapidly, but don't forget his play against England's B team, where he was confused and burned on both goals. Great physical tools, but may not get there in time to start in the next WC. Bocanegra is be one inside back (not effective outside), other seems between a fading and increasingly erractic Pope, Gibbs, and Onyewu, if he keeps improving.

    Left back on defense--time for some experiments. O'Brien? Eddie Lewis? (my personal preference--allows DMB to play the mid on the left side, Lewis can still go forward, decent speed, and a very hard-nosed ball winner)? Can Spector come on in time? And, although time for experiments is fading, Arena should have given a look to Jose Burciaga.

    Great to see O'Brien--if he keeps healthy, where does he play? Go to two holding mids, Donovan running withdrawn up top with Johnson?
     
  10. Ray Luca

    Ray Luca BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Feb 2, 2005
    Actually this is a very good post and I can't think of any part that I disagree with. I think the best part of this game was that O'Brien is not finished, and if he stays healthy he could be a starter somewhere in the field. That was more then I have hoped for.
     
  11. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have got your center backs confused.
     
  12. J_Ibarra

    J_Ibarra BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 5, 2005
    That was Pope who got burned, but not on both goals because the other goal was a free kick from Richardson. By the way, Gibbs was playing that day not Onyewu.
     
  13. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Why should Arena have to teach these guys how to attack? They are professionals and most know what it takes to be effective. My opinion is when you get to the international level you can't teach players how to finnish, attack, ect. They already have this down or they wouldn't be there. A national team coach's job is to put out the best combinations of players. He can show and demonstrate how players can play together. Our finnishing frustrates me constantly but it boils down to these payers doing it better at the club level first, and then it will translate into the international game.
     
  14. danny_mac3

    danny_mac3 New Member

    May 19, 2005
    France & USA
    I do have to say that I am impressed with Onyewu. He is big and fast, two traits hard to come by in a defender (Huth=glacier, Evra=speed). When you have both together, that is something special indeed.

    With him playing in Belgium, it won't be long before bigger clubs come calling. I do remember watching highlights of the game on Le Journal, and the announcer mentioning that several clubs in France were tracking him. Just hope he doesn't go to Marseille. That place is a black hole for talent. :rolleyes:
     
  15. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia

    Arena specifically poraised Conrad is doing better than he thought he would.
     
  16. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couple more things:

    I don't get why people are down on Ralston (the whole "Ralston Line" dis). I've almost always been impressed with his play for the US. He works hard and consistently creates danger on the right side. He had an outstanding Gold Cup in 2003, with three or four assists and a goal. More recently he had a kickass game against Guatemala (goal and should have had assist on wrongly called-back Donovan goal). His crosses are excellent--he should have had an assist last game but Noonan headed Ralston's perfect cross wide. True that Steve has never put in one of his top performances against a world-class opponent, but neither has EJ had a chance to prove himself against top-flight talent, and that doesn't stop him from getting all kinds of support from the US faithful.

    I thought Noonan was a touch off his game against Canada, but despite that I wouldn't say he played poorly. He was still dangerous, always lurking and could have had three goals with a shade better placement. On a day when he's on his game, Noonan could be a reliable forward against Gold Cup-level opposition. Against a higher caliber of opponent, I really doubt he could make an impact.

    Quick question: why is Brian Ching not in this lineup? He seems like an ideal player for this tournament, who could dominate in the air and complement a smaller, speedier forward with his aerial presence. I suppose Bruce may want to see if Quaranta or Noonan are better in that role.

    Thank God for Landon friggin' Donovan. Though people were disappointed with his performance for the MNT a year ago, he's been nothing short of excellent in 2005. Goals in how many consecutive games now? (v. Canada, 2 v. Cuba, v. Costa Rica, v. Panama, and had one wrongly called back v. Guatemala). Plus he's really been a leader for the team. If it took blowing off Leverkusen and coming back to the States to get him to this level, then I'll take it.

    If Gooch continues to develop as he has been, we can pencil in two of the back four for Germany 06, with him and Dolo. As for the other CB and the LB, things look very uncertain.
     
  17. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wow, who replaced that post-Cuba game "everything is rosy" dude and replaced him with this negative guy? What's next? He is gong to start a "Fire Bruce" thread?....

    Anyway.... Hated the first half...While i was satisfied that we limited Canada to no scoring chances in the first 45.. I really grew really tired of our lack of creativity (ie how we limited ourselves to crossing the ball using Vanney and Ralston/Dolo) as if the team was comprised of robots, quite honestly :) ....
    I really was wondering out loud how come we NEVER atacked through the middle.... And sent hopeful after hopeful cross.... I mean, no one can deny this was a better 11 than the one vs. Cuba, and therefore capable of more creativity, no? Anyway, due to this, I thought the CAnadian grew quite comfortable in D.... After all, we were not being all that flexible in attack...

    Early second half was our best, i thought.... And as soon as we tried something meaningful through the middle of the field with JOB (sure, coupled with luck), we get our first goal -or own goal- ....Well, that was hard..... Apparently since we never had tried this before in the game, it fooled the Canada team....Great plan Bruce! :rolleyes: :)

    Loved the chip by Noonan.... flick(s) by Wolff...etc... And i thought for the first 15-25 minutes of the second half we played some nice soccer.... even though we sort of faded then.... MOre consistency is needed....

    Anyway,as Dark Knight says... hopefully we improve as we move on...
     
  18. twh3

    twh3 New Member

    Jul 6, 2001
    Brooklyn, NY
    Uh, wha? vs. England, one goal was a free kick and the other created on a sweet move by Joe Cole that left the back post open... That said, he didn't even play in that game. He has been solid and will be our starting CB in Germany. count on it.
     
  19. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Forgot to mention Vanney... Late in the game when Canada tried to attack... it always was through his side.... He must have bought a ticket to the game at halftime.. because he turned into a frigging spectator all of a sudden..3-4 times his "speed" (or lack thereof) was abused.... the first half i will not judge him, because Canada never dared attack much....
     
  20. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member+

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    Great lineup. Bruce may try to find a place for Reyna, probably sacrificing Mastroeni, which would be a big mistake. We don't lose too much in distribution with Mastro although his ball skills aren't on par with Reyna. It's his ball-winning and disrupting that put him over the top in my opinion.
     
  21. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    As others have pointed out, Ralston is a good player, but... he ain't the fastest. Nobody realistically expects Noonan to be more than a backup, if that, to guys like EJ & McBride. But this is what the Gold Cup is all about- developing reliable depth. Ching has been injured.

    I agree, barring injury pencil in Gooch to start, as well as Dolo. The left back is most problematic. The other CB will sort itself out from among Boca, Gibbs and Pope, with Berhalter and possibly Spector (if he can get consistent 1st team play at Charlton AND continues to improve) behind them.
     
  22. Clinton AFC

    Clinton AFC New Member

    Aug 14, 2004
    Clinton
    Amen to that, brother! From a US perspective, we were lucky that LD wasn't sent off. I'm glad he wasn't but had the ref done so, it would've been fair.

    I watched Costa Rica-Cuba before the US-Canada game and the contrast was so stark--the US and Canadian guys went down and popped right back up whereas the Ticos and Cubanos dove and rolled around like they were gut shot.

    Canada played a very solid man marking defense. The 'keeper was fine. Now, you guys just need some offense. How about dressing up Charmaine Hooper as a guy?
    :D
     
  23. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member+

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    Have to respectfully disagree. Canada was dominated in every way but on the scoreboard. They put together a late flurry, but aside from that were absolutely anemic outside their own end. The problem lay in too much individual play, which, in my opinion, was largely a result of committing to a defensive posture and leaving attacking players stranded with few options.

    On top of that, the referee let a lot of physical play on Canada's side go early, which led to the Donovan incident and a few others. There was quite a bit of mugging by Canada that went unpunished. After the U.S. went up on the fluke own-goal, some of the calls favoring Canada became ridiculous. I remember one in particular where I believe JOB was mugged from behind trying to receive the ball- with a Canadian player clattering into him and falling down- and the ref awarded a free kick to Canada.

    *Edit* This is also a qualified Canadian perspective, given that I'm a dual citizen who was also rooting for Canada while watching the game with my Canadian father, who shared my perspective on the play. :)
     
  24. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member+

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    It was Pope's clumsy foul on Andy Johnson, (flop :D ), just outside the box that gifted the free-kick.
     
  25. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's hurt. Just had surgery. I think for a torn muscle in his leg. Didn't they estimate he'd be out around 6 weeks ?
     

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