I think that the mistake was to stack the lineup so much for the Gold Cup. It should have been split better. I think that we can all agree that the Gold Cup roster was stacked. Just look at how effective the rotation was. There was no visible dropoff even when Donovan was rested. Also it would have given the players enough time on the pitch for proper evaluation in preparation for the qualifiers.
Ok---I think I might not have stated my point clear enough (which is certainly still up for debate and derision!). I was thinking about the entire roster over the entire tournament, not the starting line-up for just this game. I was thinking about who our first choice roster (not starting 11) would be as over the course of a tournament, you would expect many of these players to play a role as either a sub, for injury, for cards, or for resting starters for a game. I raise this point about depth because I do believe we have 11 players who are capable of playing attractive and organized soccer. But it takes more than 11 to win a tournament. So when I make my point about this being a B roster, I meant that some of the players on the full roster would be on the A roster and the rest of them are the next cut. Bornstein, TT, EJ, Conrad, KK have consistently been called up in recent months. Olsen was on the WC roster. Feilhaber and Clark are more recent additions who seem likely to be getting multiple caps going forward. In our midfield, we were missing Donavon, Beasley, Convey, Dempsey (depending on where you put him), over 2-3 positions. The guys we have right behind them were on display at CA (and then there is Gaven). Some of whom are getting first team minutes like Mapp and Klijsten. Anyway, I am not trying to play a game of semantics here. If people are saying that much of our team was 3rd string, I don't disagree. But I also believe that much of our team is a team that will get called into camp and make the roster for an A-team outing. And that, to me, is a sad lack of depth. In addition, with so many positions on the Nats being unsettled in my eyes, I think it is hard to say what string some of these players necessarily are. I think it is easier to say that in some positions, we don't have a lot of options (left back and striker in particular).
Why are so many people acting like the way this roster played in this tournament is going to somehow spill over and affect the play of all the starting 11 players in the pool? I'm sure that Beas will be crushed and humiliated by Gaven's struggles and that Benny will never make another pass to Convey because the flashbacks from the Argentina game will overwhelm and paralyze him. Meanwhile, Bradley will now have to rethink his entire system knowing that if 15 players all go down to injury or cards at the same time that he will struggle to qualify. Worst of all, our FIFA ranking might go down some. Because that high ranking helped us out so much in '06.
Re: 7/5 USA vs Columbia Post Match Thread [R] Thanks..I was there..Germany and Iran....ooof. This brought back some bad memories. I will say though our play out of the back and through the middle at times yesterday was very encouraging (some nice one touch triangles)....until Mapp got the ball and passed back, or EJ got it and did the slowest stepovers ever seen on a pitch.
Well a complete opposite outcome from Gold Cup Werent as many bright spots as i thought there would be
Exactly and it's reasonable and makes sense. Most summers the US will be at least partially busy in June/July/August (mostly in June/July). Friendlies+Gold Cup+Bi-Annual U-20 and U-17 World Cup's, Confed Cup+World Cup Qualifyers+World Cup. Quite simply MLS can't afford to play according to the world schedule, but it also can't afford to play full bore in june and july every single year. I'd suggest a slow down from basically early june to early to mid July where they cut the games they play in half. Usually the games are awful on the eyes anyway because the players are practically dying of heat stroke. I was looking at KC-DC the other day and it looked like a couple cousins, brothers and a parent or two showed up for that game. Seriously I wouldn't be shocked if it was less than a 1000 in attendance. I don't see how skipping that game would have hurt anyone. If you can do a full shut down for say two weeks, and a partial shut down for about 3 weeks, you can accomodate basically everyone. Instead of 6 games every weekend, play 2 or 3 tops. Alternate it so every team gets an equal and fair amount of rest so they don't get hit too heavily by losing starters to these tournaments and that might work. Going full bore just doesn't make any sense. How many players are lost to world cup qualifyers, the world cup, U-17 and U-20 world cups, Gold Cup, Copa America, Confed Cup's etc. It's insane to play that way at a full clip. You do a shut down for 2-3 weeks, cut in half the games for another 2-3 weeks, and you can accomodate everyone's interest and not hit the sport all that hard. We can send by and large mostly A squads to the lesser tournaments, and we won't be a complete joke at tournaments like the Copa. People act as if this only matters to people who want plaudits from Europe or others, the truth is, it hurts American soccer to get absolutely lambasted in tournaments like this because we know morons like Mariotti, and Deford, and Rome and the general press will not report it acurately nor with nuance which hurts the growth of the sport in this country. The growth depends on many many things, and one among many is positive press stories, debacles like this feed the "soccer sucks, america will always suck as soccer" trolls, and puts misinformation in the minds of impressionable teens and kids. Disasters like this Copa hurt our development, they don't help it. The experience talk is utter nonsense (just ask Ryan Leaf how getting humiliated as a youngster against stars helped his development, or any other athlete, for every athlete helped by an experience like the Copa, there are several more hurt by it).
Let's put things into perspective. The awful C team we put out against Colombia is probably as good as our A team was in 1990. We've come a long way.
Re: 7/5 USA vs Columbia Post Match Thread [R] Yup. I didn't have much fun watching the games, but it was "enlightening" if nothing else. And I couldn't care less what other countries think of our failures on the field - we'll be better off for it in the long run.
Ryan Leaf was what he was. Troy Aikman and some guy named Payton who plays for the Colts managed just fine after baptisms of fire (just 2 who popped to mind). Maybe it's okay to look for those who do benefit from it.
clearly you're attempt at being rational is wildy misplaced. this is bigsoccer. we had a bad Copa with a reserve group, and though these plaeyrs may have gained experience and shown where they belong in the over all player pool in the process, its more important that we avoid putting this in any persprective, take nothing positive from it, and focus instead on who should be blamed. though its true that our organization had two senior tournies and one U20 tourney to play this summer, and also true that MLS is still in full swing, and true that the clubs are not obligated to release players for the Copa event, and true that the Gold Cup added the prize of a CONFED cup spot into the mix, it misses the point. and the point on big soccer is and always will be this: that the US FED and Coaching staff are wrong in their choices whenver big soccer is disappointed, that no matter what we achieve, it would always have been better if we had an established foreign coach, and no matter what the starting 11 does on a given day, its a crime player X started over current flavor Y, and that the FED officials and coaching staff should be sacked en mass for not appreciating the wisdom so evident on these boards. so get with the program if you intend to post regularly here.
Exactly right - a little history can go a long way in "keeping our eyes on the prize". The overall trend is up and very likely to continue, even accelerated with the next generation(s).
MINUSES: One would probably think that the Nats would at least try to salvage something by winning this match after already being eliminated. For them, they probably wished this game went to Davy Jones in a hurry. That said with the overall performance (and not to be partial), they couldn't beat UC Santa Barbara with their effort that game. The truth hurts, but it is what it is. (UCSB, as you know, are the defending national champs as of this post. I'm using this in lieu of the Sisters of Mercy.) PLUSES: This will be some key experience for the young up and comers. There may be hope for this squad, as the rising U-20 talent, combined with them, could be a formidable combination when qualification and the Confed Cup comes rolling in. Commiserations, Team USA. Onward!
Re: 7/5 USA vs Columbia Post Match Thread [R] You're right that El Tri was banned. You're wrong that we only qualified because of it -- qualifier Costa Rica was paired with Mexico in the semifinal round, so the likely result of Mexico not getting kicked out would have been Mexico and the U.S. qualifying (absent any changes in results in the final round, which would have been possible but can't be predicted). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(CONCACAF)