I think you have forgotten some players? I haven't counted them individually, but by my math there are only 56 players in your list (18 posts with 3 players, 1 post with 2 players).
It should be 59 actually ... didn't expect anyone recounting it ... I rounded it up to 60 ... looks better plus it's vindicated because of notable absentees like Bernd Schuster. What I did was replacing "World Class" with "World Class" in the Word Document which I used ... and it replaced that term 59 times! Now I don't know how that difference is explained ... it's indeed 18 posts with 3 players and 1 post with 2 players, making 56....
I would think that Bastian Schweinsteiger should be one to watch for on this list.. I love watching him play.
Nice thread, Wolfgang. However, I'm not so sure about Dariusz Wosz (I'd replace him by Icke Häßler) ... and miss a few other top players with great international reputation instead (a. o. my former BMG guys Heynckes & Stielike).
These rankings are very odd. A player can have an above average club season but a good international performance and success can push him to World Class status. A player can also have a great club season and just miss out on international success while having a great tournament and just miss out on being ranked World Class.
That would explain it because if they included overseas-based players, the Inter stars surely would have received the "world class" ranking.
Let's call them "over-the-alps-based" players, more fitting. I'm almost 100% sure that Matthäus would have been rated "World Class" in 1989 & 1991. Probably also Hans-Peter Briegel in 1985. Not unlikely for Andreas Brehme in 1989/1991 as well. Not sure about Klinsmann though.
Solution: Let's add four East German players. Jürgen Croy, Peter Ducke, Jürgen Sparwasser & Joachim Streich all look like plausable candidates. Henceforth the title of the thread is correct again!
Odd may not have been the right word but you have to take them with a pinch of salt nowadays given the hierarchy of the other leagues and the relative weakness of the Bundesliga. I was referring to their rankings this decade, not what came before that. It was easier to rank players back then since the Bundesliga was competing with the other big clubs in Europe and the NT was more successful. Now the barometer of world class has turned into competitions against the peers and the highest standards are the CL at a club level. Because Bundesliga clubs and players fail to make any significant impact in that competition it becomes more difficult to judge them. I feel that kicker, with their high standards of the past, get caught up with that and fail to judge things on a more relative basis. Now, I think the idea of holding high standards is a good one but there might be a bit more grey in this matter.
As for German players this decade, they never got ranked world class based on Bundesliga performance alone. Which is why since Bayerns last CL title, we only got world class players in World Cup years. And I don't think it's much different in the past... most world class ratings came when the player reached at least a semi in the World Cup, Euro, Champions League/Champions Cup, UEFA Cup, Cup Winners Cup.
Recap: 1955 [5 players] Eckel, Herkenrath, Liebrich, Posipal, F.Walter 1956 none 1957 [1] Szymaniak 1958 [3] Juskowiak, Rahn, Szymaniak 1959 [5] Seeler, Szymaniak, Tilkowski, Juskowiak, Rahn 1960 [4] Seeler, Schnellinger, Szymaniak, Tilkowski 1961 [3] Seeler, Schnellinger, Szymaniak 1962 [2] Seeler, Schnellinger 1963 [2] Seeler, Schnellinger 1964 [2] Seeler, Tilkowski 1965 [2] Tilkowski, Weber 1966 [9] Beckenbauer, Haller, Höttges, Overath, Schulz, Schnellinger, Seeler, Tilkowski, Weber 1967 [2] Beckenbauer, Schulz 1968 [4] Beckenbauer, Schulz, Vogts, Overath 1969 [4] Beckenbauer, Schulz, Vogts, Overath 1970 [7] Beckenbauer, Seeler, Vogts, G.Müller, Netzer, Overath, Schnellinger 1971 [4] Beckenbauer, G.Müller, Netzer, Vogts 1972 [4] Beckenbauer, Breitner, G.Müller, Netzer 1973 [1] Beckenbauer 1974 [6] Beckenbauer, Breitner, Hoeness, Maier, G.Müller, Vogts 1975 [3] Beckenbauer, Maier, Vogts 1976 [5] Beckenbauer, Bonhof, Maier, G.Müller, Vogts 1977 [6] Beckenbauer, Dietz, Flohe, Grabowski, Kaltz, Maier 1978 none 1979 [3] Breitner, Kaltz, K.H.Rummenigge 1980 [4] Breitner, Briegel, K.H.Rummenigge, Schumacher 1981 [4] Breitner, Kaltz, K.H.Rummenigge, Schumacher 1982 [5] Breitner, Kh.Förster, Littbarski, K.H.Rummenigge, Schumacher 1983 [3] Kh.Förster, Magath, Schumacher 1984 [1] Schumacher 1985 [3] K.Allofs, Littbarski, Völler 1986 [3] Kh.Förster, Matthäus, Schumacher 1987 none 1988 [3] Hässler, Klinsmann, Kohler 1989 [1] Kohler 1990 [5] Brehme, Buchwald, Kohler, Matthäus, Völler 1991 none 1992 [3] Hässler, Köpke, Stein 1993 [3] Klinsmann, Köpke, Möller 1994 [2] Klinsmann, Sammer 1995 [2] Klinsmann, Sammer 1996 [5] Klinsmann, Kohler, Köpke, Hässler, Sammer 1997 [6] Bierhoff, Kahn, Kohler, Köpke, Thon, Wosz 1998 [2] Bierhoff, Illgner 1999 [2] Kahn, Matthäus 2000 [2] Effenberg, Kahn 2001 [1] Kahn 2002 [2] Ballack, Kahn 2003 none 2004 none 2005 none 2006 [2] Frings, Klose, Lehmann 2007 none 2008 none
Records: Best Years 9 - 1966 7 - 1970 6 - 1974, 1977, 1997 5 - 1955, 1959, 1976, 1982, 1990, 1996 5 - 1960, 1968, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1980 Best Years with Major Tournaments 9 - 1966 7 - 1970 6 - 1974 5 - 1976, 1982, 1990, 1996 4 - 1972, 1980 3 - 1958, 1986, 1988, 1992, 2006 Best Years without Major Tournaments 6 - 1977, 1997 5 - 1955, 1959 4 - 1960, 1968, 1969, 1971 3 - 1961, 1975, 1979, 1983, 1985, 1993 2 - 1963, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1995, 1999 1 - 1957, 1973, 1989, 2001 Worst Years with Major Tournaments 0 - 1978 1 - 1984 2 - 1962, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2002
Good call. Maybe Klinsmann could have got in 1991 but his goalscoring tally probably wasn't one of a "world class" striker.
gerd müller was player of the year in germany season 1968/69 and was the best ranked german player in the -balon dor- rankings (third ranked) same season too....4 german players was judged worldclass and gerd müller was judged only international class...this makes sense..lol.
I agree Müller was hard done by Kicker in the 1960s. If Willi Schulz and Berti Vogts got a world class rating for 1969, certainly Müller should have got one too. It seems the 1960s Kicker writing staff was a bit picky towards Müller, not considering him an immensely talented player, just a very successful poacher. Uwe Seeler was the symbol of how people wanted a center forward to be: explosive shots, torpedo headers, bicycle kicks and backheaders in abundance. It took the 1970 World Cup to fully acknowledge Müller's stature. It's telling that Kicker gave Müller a "World Class" rating for the first half of the 1970-71 season, when he certainly was not as good as in the first half of the 1968-69 season or the rückrunde of the 68-69 season, when they only gave him an "international class" rating.
i dont think it was only the 60s....kickers darling was definitiv the kaiser franz beckenbauer... i have checked beckenbauers kicker ratings in bundesleaque games in his munich games.... beckenbauer has played 397 bundesleaque games for bayern munich..... he was rated: 70 times -1- 198 times-2- 100 times-3- 29 times-4- 0 times-5- 0 times-6- gerd müller has played 427 bundesleaque games for bayern munich .... he was rated : 21 times -1- (this low number is absurd) the best joke was 1976/77 bayern-hamburg 6:2..müller has scored 4 goals + 1 assist...kicker has rated him only with a -2- another joke bayern-oberhausen 4:2 ..müller with 2 goals + 2 assists..kicker has rated him -3- another joke bayern-oberhausen 5:3..müller with 2 goals +1 assist--kicker has rated him a -5- it must be pointed out beckenbauer never got a -5-rating ..so müllers performance in this game (kicker meaning)was worster than every game beckenbauer has played in the bundesleaque for munich in 12 seasons....absurd... düsseldorf-bayern- 6:5....müller 3 goals+1 assist (he has put his team in front 4:2 in the first half in düssedorf)..kicker has rated him -2-....the only player on the field with a -1- rating was beckenbauer ....why no -1- rating for müller??? müller in his first bundesleaque season alone (129 games) was rated 49 times -4- and 9 times -5- this suggest müller was in big parts a crap player in his first 4 seasons..on the other hand twice player of the year in germany... 49 -4- + 9 -5- ratings for müller in his first 4 seasons is more than 100% worster than beckenbauers worst ratings total in 12 seasons...(he had total only 29 -4-ratings and zero -5-ratings... however there is not only injusice to for müller in the kicker ratings... 1 example : player bernhard dietz had a 4 goal game against bayern munich in the 70s and he was a defender (man of the match)...the kicker has rated him only -2- schwarzenbecks kicker rating total in the 70s was 3.14 müllers kicker rating total in the 70s was 3.19 so obviously schwarzenbeck was slightly the better player in the 70s than gerd müller where has broken in the 70s nearly every bundesleaque goalscoring record..
I have to say you brought your point across pretty well there. Excellent research. Those ratings will always be subjective. If a normal striker scored 3 goals in a game it will arguably be considered a sensational achievement. With a player like Müller however it would be considered business as usual.
Not only Kicker, Müller was and unfortunately still is underrated by many football fans, including German ones. "He was just a poacher" is what you will hear often in regards to him. Compared to other greats, his talent and importance for both club and country are indeed not appreciated enough.