60-90 days?

Relax Panic FC. The complexity of the Harrison deal far outweighs all the other projects. Just give it some more time. Maybe 60 - 90 days from now ?

 

Where have u heard of a new Chicago stadium? What will the call it? the Fire House?

 

Re: Re: Re: 60-90 days?

yea. I also forgot to put in my guy in there so forgive me. But the Harrison thingy is much more complex than all the other stadium deals. We are talking about the redevelopment of an entire city, not just a stadium. If / when completed, Harrison will be on a grander scale than the other stadias. At least that's what Big Soccer tells me....

 

Anybody who has ever had any dealings with local governments will tell you that working out a deal like this takes a great deal of patience. And you can pretty much multiply your original time estimate by the number of organizations involved. (I understand that in this case it's quite a few.) And this is the most important stadium deal of all. Getting the Metros out of their money-losing stadium situation is important for all the teams, since they all have to chip in to make up the difference. The league will really have turned the corner when they have their own stadiums in LA, Chicago and New Jersey. Believe me, it's going to be worth the wait

 

The Harrison Stadium is way, way further ahead in the process than the proposed Bridgeview stadium. Seriously.

 

Actually it isn't. The Bridgeview stadium is announced. Short of shovels in the dirt "announced" is ahead of anything else.

(edited for dumb pimping of poster's photos)

 

Unless something is coming out of the mouths of the dignitaries in Chicago right now that we don't know about yet, it's pretty clear that Chicago is not further along in this process than Metro. They may not be that far behind, but they're not ahead. Chicago info here.

-- Metro have a site. Fire have a site.
-- Metro have a deal with the town regarding who owns the stadium, who builds it, who books events for it, and who pays for it. Fire have a deal with the town regarding who owns the stadium, who builds it, who books events for it, and who pays for it.
-- Metro have prelim stadium workups, nothing more. Fire have prelim stadium workups, nothing more.
-- Metro have a joint public-private financing plan (AEG, town of Harrison, county of Hudson) with the town on board for their part and the county on board in principle but not on paper. Fire have a joint public-private financing plan (AEG, village of Bridgeview) with a commitment from the village for their end, but nothing on paper.
-- Metro need bonds floated and it hasn't happened yet. Fire need bonds floated and it hasn't happened yet.
-- Metro's proposed space is currently occupied by PSE&G trucks that have agreed to move once construction begins. Fire's proposed space is currently occupied by small businesses that have not yet agreed to move. (The village has said that they'll go for eminent domain on this, and is the most likely stumbling block.)

If there's anything I'm missing, please fill me in. Now, if the HCIA delays the bond issuance any further it's entirely possible for the Fire to get there first. But right now both teams are looking at '06 and in neither case is that a pipe dream.

 

Actually the Fire are ahead. They have announced a stadium. They have announced when they're moving in.

http://www.chicago-fire.com/pressbox/pressrelease/releasetext.asp?prID=1391

At this point the MetroStars have announced a bunch of wishing and hoping and "future negotiations". Yeah, they've got a targetted plot of land, but there is no deal. Call me when you get the press release.

 

What is embarassing about the fire thing is that we beat them into the league by 2 years and they have an MLS cup, two open cups (3?), and if we're lucky we will have a stadium at the same time, if not they may beat us. I grant that Metro appear to be further along in the process (paper work, drawings, etc) than Chicago, but we've also wasted (had to spend, whatever) 2-3 years farting around the state legislature to get this done, a step Chicago seems to have skipped over (or maybe it's just beginning, who knows).

I just want shovels moving already. It's been long enough. We will see Columbus, LA, and Dallas open stadiums before we do. I don't want to wait around to see Chicago and Denver do the same.

 

Feeling jilted ehh Jamison ??

 

Regardless of which stadium wins this contrived horse race, I think the greater urgency is here in NJ. From what I've heard and read, the Soldier Field situation is relatively good. In contrast, I am not certain that we can survive 3 more years in Giant Stadium.

 

Writ large for all the slow and special people out there:

"Chicago Fire General Manager Peter Wilt today announced that they have signed an agreement with the Village of Bridgeview to build a $70 million, 20,000 to 25,000-seat, world-class soccer stadium in Chicago’s Southland region that will house the Major League Soccer team permanently with a targeted move-in date of Spring 2006."

http://www.chicago-fire.com/pressbox/pressrelease/releasetext.asp?prID=1391


Gee, ain't that a bit like this:

The 25,000-seat stadium will be the centerpiece of a major redevelopment project that will include luxury housing, offices and retail space.
[cutting to the chase]

Tuesday’s resolution clears the way for a series of on-going steps and further agreements that will move the project forward over the next few months. These steps and agreement will ultimately lead to the project’s groundbreaking in 2004. Plans are to open the MetroStars Stadium in April of 2006.

http://www.metrostars.com/metronews/submissions/2003/july/07022003v2.htm (posted July 2003)

Plans, targets, wishes, projections, all.

You'd think that redeveloping an entire urban industrial district, in northern New Jersey no less, is perhaps a bit more involved than knocking over a patch of fairgrounds, a university velodrome, an open pasture, or a couple suburban shops to put a stadium in. But it's all 'wishful thinking' according to Andy Mead, so I guess all I've heard and read about the development and the stadium - not all of which makes it to these boards - is just so much bull. After all, if anyone knows just what's going on in Harrison, New Jersey, it's gotta be some trolling Wizards geek in the Carolinas, right?

 

Oh I'm sorry, they made an announcement. How could I forget the iron-clad legality of an announcement?

Silly me, getting all concerned with things like city council votes and financing and eminent domain issues. Please, carry on....

 

Chicago isn't jumping the gun or anything, but they haven't done accomplished any of the legislative work the Metros have.

It probably doesn't matter, because they have their ducks in a row with the elected officials all the way up to the state level, and the skids are greased. But it's a total distortion to say they're "ahead" of the Metros on that.

And "contrived horse race" is exactly right. Building a stadium here is much harder than doing the same thing in Chicagoland. The choice the Metros made-- to pursue a stadium in Harrison-- made things even more difficult, but a stadium within walking distance of the Harrison PATH station, a few miles west of downtown Manhattan, is so much better than locating a stadium in a location comparable to Bridgeview (a somewhat remote suburb nowhere near the center of the greater metropolitan area) that the additional hassle would be well worth it-- IF the stadium gets built.

What's so frustrating, and also what makes Big Soccer's most uninformed loudmouths feel so smug when they sneer at the Metros' attempts to build a stadium, is that the Metro front office spent years essentially lying to its fans. Charlie Stillitano and then Nick Sakiewicz hyped the long-term goal of building a stadium as something imminent, going back to 1997. It's hard to believe they would bullsh^t us like they did, but I'm pretty sure they felt it was some way to give good news to fans who paid money to watch a badly run team play crappy soccer in a lousy non-environment, and make little evident attempts to plan for the future.

Who would buy season tickets? Well, by letting fans know that they would get first crack at scarce seats in a beautiful new stadium, the Metros tried to strongarm fans growing increasingly impatient with incompetence. But everyone knows this.

The clock really only started on the stadium in 2002. For nearly five years, the Metrostars, in bad faith, made big promises and not very much effort.

But the only reason Nick still has a job is because he has done serious work in a tricky situation. We were very, very close to getting the key vote to approve the stadium a little over a year ago, when the New Jersey AG's attempts to find a scapegoat for the pension fund problem tried to pin the blame on Phil Anschutz, who sold his stock before it (and the holdings of the pension fund) went down the toilet. That was NOT the MFO's fault-- it was the fault of political opportunists, and to some extent the fault of the greedy rich guy who owns the Metros, but is looking to pass off the cost of the stadium on Hudson County. (Hey, he's doing the same thing to Bridgeview.)

So Nick and Hudson County are working on Plan B. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but it'll take time. It's probably worth doing. If we get the stadium, it'll all be worth it. But if we don't, the Metros had better have a third plan, one which gets a stadium built ANYWHERE, IMMEDIATELY. If they don't, then all the cynicism is not only justified, it'll probably be enough to break the remaining bond between the team and most of its fans.

And there's a lesson for the Fire in this, too: the stadium financing isn't in place yet. It looks really good, but if something goes wrong, they'll have a way to build something without any delay. And as much as some folks want to use the stadium issue as a cudgel to bash Nick Sakiewicz and a scepter to give to Peter Wilt, the Metros are doing something infinitely harder but with a potential upside that will make Chicago's suburban Firehouse look comparatively minor league.

It doesn't make any sense to turn this into a race, but logos and press conferences aside, Chicago hasn't actually accomplished anything the Metrostars haven't already done. When the Fire get their legislation passed, and the backhoes are running, and if HCIA decides that the parking platforms aren't a feasible revenue source, then Andy and all the folks who slag the Metros off will have a point.

 

Looks like Chicago's Bridgeview site doesn't really have mass transit. There are weekday commuter rail lines a few miles away, and a bus ride that follows a long trip on a CTA train, but even Giants Stadium looks easier to get to than Bridgeview.

You can't quibble with the fact that the Fire are making good progress on their park, but as far as stadium sites go, Harrison is way, way better. It's just up to the Metros to make sure it happens.

 

i just love hearing this big words, WORLD this WORLD that just like the World series , it must be so the best in the WORLD, ....so we should expect plush sitting, retractable roof, and perhaps heated grounds, why not retractable field for concerts and other stuff, way COOL !!!

 

Should we call an ambulance?

 

I agree with Haig in the previous post. For all the hoopla about the Fire stadium, they have moved out of the city of Chicago. Of all the teams in MLS, I have always felt that the Fire would thrive the most from having a stadium within an urban setting. In Bridgeview though, there seems to be little mass transit to the site. Same with the Burn who are moving away from Dallas, to become a completely suburban team.

The Metrostars, if the Harrison stadium works out, will have the greatest urban setting of any current or prospective American soccer stadium. In fact, the Metrostars will be moving closer to urban settings instead of away from them. There will hopefully be a PATH station nearby, and the vibrant local communities. That's a big difference then playing in the middle of a field (Columbus) or on a college campus (LA), or now, in a relatively remote suburb as the Fire and Burn will be doing. It might be taking longer, but I think the fruits that all this effort will bring about will be worth it.

As for our GM, I hope he pulls through. People forget what a pain NJ politicians are. The fact is Nick has not done that great of a job with the Metrostars. The team seems to be floundering in a state of apathy, and the best way to change that is to get this stadium going. I'm pulling for him, as this stadium, unlike all the other pretenders, will be the true cathedral of soccer in America. It will have an urban setting (notice all the great stadiums that we associate with are in urban settings not in the suburbs, i.e. Chicago Stadium, MSG, Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Boston Gardens, etc.) Hopefully, it will also have stands that are right up to the pitch to really enhance the feeling that you are on top of the action. Honestly, the Metrostars have the opportunity here to set the pace for American soccer stadiums.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: 60-90 days?

About 20 years ago a project along the city redevelopment lines was attempted in Asbury Park, NJ. The project died on the vine after the developers when bankrupt shortly after running off all the businesses and such along the boardwalk. With the exception of the occasional show at Convention Hall or the Stone Pony and an appearance or two on the Sopranos or being used as the exterior location for the movie "City by the Sea" the city has been a ghost town since. I won't get all giddy over this project until it is actually in existance.

 

Redevelopment went okay in Hoboken years ago... heck even Jersey City and Newark are looking nicer. But Asbury's redevelopment fell through from corrupt officials. I remember hearing a story of a woman running for some office in Asbury and receiving tons of threats against her. Asbury needs a little more to redevelop than Harrison in that the corruption in Asbury won't allow anything to get done. Or so I hear from reliable sources.

 

Harrison is in an area that has seen significant development already and has accessible mass transit to NYC. I can't see the area not developing.