6/22/07: Law XI

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by GPK, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. haaamean

    haaamean Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Santa Ana, Costa Rica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The ref said that's why he made the call, because he thought Hume headed it onward to Hutchinson(not DeRo mr. rationale)! If that's the case, then both would've been offside. My point about DeRo is that he came from being farther offside to being slightly off or on by the time the ball was kicked. It was never very clear either way.
     
  2. DET_RSNL

    DET_RSNL New Member

    Mar 24, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought it was a goal. However I was a bit suprised how much time was left on the clock as well, almost 5 minutes???? For What? Sorry Canada I know you feel you got screwed. But we are the U.S. and Canada let's not make an international incident out of this like those two figure skaters in the Salt Lake olympics.

    In the end this is pretty much a meaningless tournament in the bigger scope of things, unless you're a country like mexico who only play one sport well. It's not a Stanley Cup, it's not even the World Cup. Your team played well and have played us well the last few times. The last friendly was a tie correct? Your team will surely be one to recon with in the next few years, be proud!
     
  3. GalaxyOne

    GalaxyOne Member+

    Dec 6, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, Landon dove big time... the yellow was well deserved. And even Beasley took a huge flying leap to sell the PK. I was thinking to myself, the US has finally started embracing some of the finer points of the game, like diving in and around the box, to their advantage quite nicely in this game. Now if they can only only have the maturity and composure to do this against some of the bigger world powers who use these advanced tactics routinely, then we may finally get somewhere!!!
     
  4. GalaxyOne

    GalaxyOne Member+

    Dec 6, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gee, it's nice to be at least partially right. I hadn't gotten to the AR's explanation yet, so my guess was right. :)

    I sure did have DeRo confused with Hutchinson, though!!! :eek:
     
  5. Cashcleaner

    Cashcleaner New Member

    Feb 5, 2007
    Ajax, Ontario
    There really shouldn't be any debate with this, it was a bad call and Hutchinson was undoubtably onside. To be honest, it was actually a pretty good (and scrappy) game and I totally would have accepted a loss IF the officiating was fair for both teams. I can also think of one red card that should have been raised earlier on as well...
     
  6. Mikey72

    Mikey72 New Member

    May 28, 2006
    I can think of 90 minutes where Canada only scored one goal.
     
  7. haaamean

    haaamean Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Santa Ana, Costa Rica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yep bad call so what, like I said before don't pretend the rest of this game was called in our favor. The tackle you're referring to was mis-timed and not malicious, so no straight red was needed. Hume taking out Mastroeni and Gooch away from the ball was malicious, no call no cards. Has any fan of Canada tried to justify the 5 minutes of stoppage given when 4 was announced? No, you wanna nit pick on two calls that were unlucky and still very very close to being justified. Look at the screen shots again. 4:35 seconds into stoppage time. Its also probably about 10 seconds after the US cleared the last attack out and 5 seconds before the goal.
     
  8. koryo

    koryo New Member

    May 19, 2007
    The US defender made a back pass (intentional or not) inside their own 18 yard box.

    Offside is therefore negated. End of.
     
  9. washtenaw

    washtenaw New Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Michigan
    I was digging through the rules and couldn't find anything about this aspect of offsides:

    Is one deemed offsides if the play occurs at least two minutes after added time should have been called?

    Wait, you say added time is a "judgment" call? Oh... so is offsides. So benefit from one and complain about the other? Interesting...
     
  10. mj23drj

    mj23drj New Member

    Sep 27, 2003
    Harrisburg

    Yes, you're right , Hutchinson is onside. But the problem here is that DeRo IS Offside, and if Gooch doesn't deflect that ball with his head, DeRo is the one who would be in on goal, not Hutchinson, therefore interfering with the play. Those are the laws of the game, whether we agree or not.
     
  11. autogolazzo

    autogolazzo Member

    Mar 4, 2007
    Nice try :) You obviously have not taken a perspective drawing course.

    It should look more like this:
    http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canadausqe4.jpg

    DeRo is not even close to being in an offside position, nor is anyone else offside for that matter.

    I didn't just make these lines up. I traced the line from the penalty area and extended it. Then I traced the lines that divide the differnet color turf. Perspective drawing 101.
     
  12. cwilke1

    cwilke1 Member

    Sep 1, 2006
    Glen Cove
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Autogolazzo, you used the wrong picture to make your best point. It can clearly be seen with the picture you used that DeRo is in an onside position, but for the picture when the ball is at the foot of the Canadian who last played it before Gooch headed it, its a much closer call. And the edge of the box is not in that picture. But you're still right, remembering the slant of the box from the picture you posted helps us to realize that in the picture where the ball is at the foot of the Canadian who last played it before Gooch headed it, De Ro is still in an onside position, even though it is really close. The slants in the grass are deceiving and are not parallel to the box.
     
  13. Hank Rearden

    Hank Rearden New Member

    Jul 9, 1999
    Dundee, Illinois, USA
    Nice work with the lines. The problem is your screenshot is well after the pass was made. If offsides was determined a few seconds after the initial pass, your screenshot is conclusive. However, the laws of the game require offsides be determined at the moment the pass is made.
     
  14. BBruin66

    BBruin66 Member

    Mar 25, 2006
    Bangor
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It all comes down to if Dero was offsides when that initial ball is played. If he was, he did affect the play because Gooch wouldnt have needed to head the ball and it never would have gotten to Hutchinson. That is effecting the play
     
  15. TomDuke

    TomDuke New Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    The USSF advice to referees says that if a player is offside and a teammate plays the ball toward him, attracting the attention of a defender, drawing that opponent into pursuit, then the attack is guilty of interfering with an opponent (thus is whistled offside).

    So in this situation, no.
     
  16. autogolazzo

    autogolazzo Member

    Mar 4, 2007
    Agreed on all accounts. I used this picture because the penalty area is visible, giving one a much better reference of how the imaginary offside line, parallel to the end line, should be drawn.

    It seems like a lot of the people who were saying that DeRo was offside (position) had a very skewed idea of where such a line should be drawn. The guy who gave an attempt at drawing a line actually made it skewed in the opposinte direction. And if you do not know where that line should be drawn, you can't even begin to make an argument.
     
  17. GalaxyOne

    GalaxyOne Member+

    Dec 6, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, that is just not correct. In the end, DeRo did not interfere with the play, and as such is a total non-factor to the call (which the AR apparently even stated, as others here have said).

    It is not correct to call the offside on the anticipation (at the moment the ball is played), that a person will be interfering. In other words, DeRo would have actually have to have recieved the ball and most likely even touched it to be correctly called for offside. THAT is the current law of the game. Sorry if you don't agree. Several years ago, FIFA even made a point to instruct ARs to delay the waving of the flag until it is certain that the offside player has made a play on the ball.
     
  18. dlgeier

    dlgeier New Member

    Jun 7, 2007
    I'll be hoenst here, I kind of like the look...

    Is it a little arrogant? Probably but that's okay. If a new look motivates the women to take the gold then I won't say anything. It'd be cool if the MNT did something like this...

    I'd buy a men's jersey in a heart beat. HA!
     
  19. autogolazzo

    autogolazzo Member

    Mar 4, 2007
    Here is an attempt to do the same thing with the image taken at the time the ball was played. To do this I extended the lines to a vanishing point, offscreen.

    http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uscanadaaj3.jpg

    While I might not take this image into court with me, it does give you a good approximation of where the lines would lie. Also, notice how the players have barely even moved from the other screenshot which has the penalty area visible, but was not taken at the time the ball was kicked.

    In my opinion, the DeRo offside myth has been busted.
     
  20. Hank Rearden

    Hank Rearden New Member

    Jul 9, 1999
    Dundee, Illinois, USA
    I stand corrected. As you've shown, DeRosario was not behind the last defender at the time of the initial pass. Accordingly, the call was incorrect. Supposedly the AR said he thought Hume made a play on the ball (which could raise the possibility of an offside at that point), but he didn't connect with the pass so it wasn't correct. It's a shame they got the call wrong, but it shouldn't change the result. The game is over and Canada had their chances to tie or win in the prior 94 minutes.
     
  21. soczoo

    soczoo New Member

    Jun 21, 2001
    Chattanooga, TN
    Okay, this is beginning to verge on silly. DeRo was not 3 body lengths onside like your lines make it appear. Everyone is seeing this through [pick your nations colours] glasses.

    Let's focus on that all 3 North American nations are now in the big time. And with the big time comes bad calls.

    Just wait until a big qualifier in Costa Rica when a defender has a hand magically grow out of his head, or the world cup when Germany gets to use two goalkeepers at the same time.
     
  22. viper

    viper New Member

    Jun 7, 2000
    Paramus, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you, thank you GalaxyOne! Exactly the point I made earlier in this thread! The player who scored was not offside and the goal should have been allowed. DeRo's questionable offside is, as you have said, 'a total non-factor.
     
  23. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    attracting the attention of a defender

    Onyewu was forced to play the ball to prevent it from going to DeRosario. Isn't that an example of DeRosario attracting the attention of a defender? If DeRosario is not in that position, Onyewu could have just let the ball roll to Keller. I think you are making the law more difficult to understand than it really is.

    It doesn't matter in this case, though, as the AR thought the ball came off of Hume's head. Also, DeRosario is probably even and not offside.

    - Paul
     
  24. Saeyddthe

    Saeyddthe Member

    Sep 5, 2003
    St. Looney ^the CB&J
    [​IMG]

    Your horizon is off about 10 rows and the actual real-life camera is about 10 yards further downfield.
    Perspective sucks, eh?



    Totally and utterly wrong.

    And I'm not about to take the word of a bunch of menstruating "sort of Canadians" as to what the AR said...

    Don't give a shit if you do.
    In the end, it was one call. I'm sure there were hundreds of decisions/non-decisions made during the course of the game that we (you) could debate. I'll just go on now, and leave you to run up the tally and tell me who should have won... It'll probably be worth your while if you think your team will never play another game again. :rolleyes:
     
  25. Captain Canuck

    Captain Canuck New Member

    May 13, 2002
    Fine, I'll use the words "a victory that doesn't feel tarnished" instead. That's the only reason why anybody would want to bend over backwards to the point of their back breaking to try and concoct a theory as to how the call was not correct. You have to show that (a) DeRo was clearly offside (if there is any doubt, FIFA instructs the linesman to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking team - never mind that the screen shots show that DeRo is in line with the defender and the linesman) (b) that he was clearly interfering with play even though the ball was never played to him & never reached him and (c) that Onyewu didn't deliberately play the ball. All three are nigh on impossible to anyone looking at it objectively

    Or you guys could just admit that you caught a lucky break & move on to cheer your team on in the finals. I think the second option is a bit easier, don't you think?

    Edit: just read a more recent post and see that you have. Fair enough. Ignore my ramblings. ;)
     

Share This Page