I agree with Roush, Attiba was barely offsides when the ball was played, the deflection doesnt matter when the ball was played he was a nose ahead of that last us player..look at the video..with the linesman being right there how could he have missed it. I think people are being decieved by the deflection but I am sure when the ref sends his report in, it will show that the offside was called on attiba because of that.. take a look yourself, it was barely off, but it was off..
You're ignoring the touch that occurred on the way to Gooch. The ball was headed by Iain Hume. Watch the replay, and you can see the flight of the ball change course. And you'll note that as Hume touches the ball, Hutchinson is a good half-yard offside. Doesn't matter who played the ball last, only that Hutchinson was offside when a teammate played the ball forward. Am I right or am I right?
Your video starts with the ball already in the air. At 7:01, the ball is already three or four yards from the Canadian who made the pass: They took a lot of looks at the play from a very good angle in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmc7lkaIKtE At 2:13-2:14, they tried to pause as close as possible to the moment the ball was kicked. In the screenshot below, the ball is being struck and is already just slightly off the ground:
That's the perfect screenshot... and it shows that both players were even with the last defender. Onside when the ball was kicked, deflection doesn't matter, wrong call was made. Canada hosed. End of story.
Having finally seen the play, I think you're probably right. It was very close, however. And when they're that close, linesmen get the call wrong about as often as they get it right.
Actually that is a nice shot, the attackers appear clearly in line with the last defender... But you can also notice from the arc and the cut-marks on the grass that the camara is not looking directly on the scene at right angles...it appears to be 15-20 degrees angled to the field...if you rotate the image to the correct angle I believe DeRo would clearly be offsides.
your screen shot doesn't show what you want it to show, just going off of that (and not personally having seen any replays since last night (no youtube access at work)) dero is offside. The line would not be directly vertical from the computer screen but with a slight slant. So if using an offside line that is directly vertical using the computer screen as a reference DeRo is barely on, then accounting for the slight slant for the actual offside line then DeRo is most likely offside.
I agree there is a slight angle but not 15-20 degrees. The line closest to backline is more like 5 degrees. I think he'd still be onsides after a slight rotation. But now we're getting into super detailed analysis that I don't expect the linesman to catch 100% of the time. Which brings us back to my original point that the ref should have gone over to the linesman to make sure they agreed on the play. If the linesman called it because he said DeRo was offsides on the first kick, that's fine... too close to say he's wrong. But maybe he called it because he thought the ball should deflected off Hume thus making Hutchinson offsides. We won't know unless they release the game report or something.
dosent the linesman put up his flag when the deemed player who is offside has actually touched the ball. In this case, if you throw out the argument of Gooch's passback header nullifying the offsides, the ball never made contact with the intended player, De Ro. We can also see that Hutch was onsides at the time the ball was lofted in. So, shouldent the linesman not of put up his flag untill De Ro touched the ball - unless of course he makes contact after another attacker has touched it. Thus, shouldent that be a passive offside, allowing for Hutch to break in - onside - and legally slot home the equalizer due to the deflection?
Even after pouring over a still shot of the play, we're still debating whether the play was offside based on the camera angles. How on earth is it reasonable to expect the linesman to make the "obviously right" call such that when he doesn't the agrieved party is clearly screwed? It was a bang-bang, 50/50 play that went for one side and against another. No more, no less.
Except, you know, not. 1. DeRo might still be offside due to the angle 2. Hume may have contacted the ball prior to Gooch's header, and both Candians were offside at that point 3. Even if the offside was wrong the whistle might have blown before the shot, thus causing Keller to hold up on the save 4. De Guzman may have handled the ball when controlling it So, other than those hanging threads the story is over.
Really sums it up. Tough to say you got royally hosed when it takes infinite replays and taking into account how many degrees the camera angle skewed the shot, etc, etc. Could have gone either way
Yes, that clips shows the players at the point the pass was made and DeRosario was in an offside position. If offside is measured at the instant the pass is made, then the call looks correct - I don't see how DeRosario was passively offside since Onyweu deflected the pass that was going towards DeRosario over to Hutchison.
You can even tell by the shading of the grass (not to mention the angle) that DeRosario is offside. I think the two questions are whether offside is measured at the instant the pass is made (I think yes) and whether DeRosario was passively offside (doubtful, but perhaps).
Yes, exactly! Now from the vid captures that were posted, both Canadian players apear to be onside. From the replays that I saw yesterday, DeRo appeared to by offside to me, but I still believe that, if this was the case, it should not have mattered. Ok, now here's a quote from the premier soccer journalist in the US, Ives Galarcep: Here's the link: http://njmg.typepad.com/sbi/2007/06/us-holds-off-fi.html
Decisions of the International F.A. Board Decision 1 In the defi nition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this defi nition. Decision 2 The defi nitions of elements of involvement in active play are as follows: • Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate. • Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent. • Gaining an advantage by being in that position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position. Found this addendum on Rule XI on the FIFA website.... Doesn't the part I highlighted apply in this situation? He's in an offside position and gaining advantage when playing the ball off of Onyewu.
Considering I was posting it to show that he was offside, I'd say it shows exactly what I wanted it to show.
The ball was played to an offside player on the near side, the flag had gone up by the time Gooch's head hit the ball
the last defender's entire body except for his knee and down is on one side of that grass line, and the entire canadian forward's body is in the offside position. now whether he should be called offside is a different argument, but in that picture he's offside
Chuy, I apologize to you. I wasn't looking clearly. My reponse was directed to Quill, who had merely reposted your original shot. I thought Quill had posted the shot.
I think you are misunderstanding which way the slant would be going. Looking at the screenshot below, which uses the penatly area as a reference, the slant in the line would be almost vertical, but would skew a bit (from top to bottom) right to left, not the other way around as you believe. Trace the line in the grass that divides dark and light the and then trace the line from the penalty area so that it extends all the way up and down the screen. Now draw a line in the middle of these two lines that approximates an intermediate angle hlafway between the two. DeRo is easily in an onside position.
Look at where the ball is. That screen shot is way after the kick. Everyone else is talking about the second screen shot. hth