Beyond the storylines of who wins the Premiership comes the fight at the bottom. Usually, people would be talking about the annual battle that Mad Max and Aunty Entity would be proud of. Add in the usual talk about the money that's involved with staying up in the Premiership, and it can almost mirror the life or death levels some put on the struggle--and if you think teams can bounce back easily, look at Leicester. Even worse, look at Leeds. The downhill slope can get more and more treacherous in an instant. If only this was the normal turn of things. West Ham United is on the outside looking in, but over the last month the Hammers have lunged towards staying up. In normal circumstances, neutrals would admire the inspired and almost crazed play of Carlos Tevez and how Alan Curbishley could become an instant hero by keeping the club up. If only things were normal. Let's get ready to rumble, legal style! Several clubs are lining up to sue West Ham and/or the Premiership if the Hammers stay up. Wigan Athletic teed up their ball earlier this week, saying they will sue because of the decision not to dock West Ham points in the afterglow of the Tevez/Javier Mascherano transfers last month. Sheffield United's ready to go also, and in you think Charlton and Fulham aren't waiting in the wings to pile on...well, you don't know litigation, jack. After it all, six teams might sue. A long time ago, a transfer occured. People were shocked, SHOCKED! Two Argentines, straight from the fields of Germany and the World Cup, didn't go to Chelsea, or United, or Spain or Italy. They came to Upton Park, and dreams of blowing bubbles went to new heights. Of course, things seemed shady to some from the start. Those fears were put to the side as the Hammers struggled. And oh boy, did they struggle. Takeovers occured. Coaches were fired. And it looked like West Ham were ready to go down. But then they started relatively getting things into gear. But last month, West Ham got fined £5.5m for the transfers because of "acting improperly and withholding vital documentation over the duo's ownership." But they weren't subtracted points, which would have a)ensured West Ham going down and b)protests, likely of a legal nature, from West Ham. Let's put aside Tevez's cloudy eligibility issues and the former chairman threatening a lawsuit because of the transfers that are at the crux of all of this. This will drag on throughout the summer, one way or the other. If West Ham stay up on the field, things will get really bad. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if next season gets pushed back a week or three, which will congest the schedule even more. Makes you almost wish West Ham take the donut for the rest of the season to avoid the ugliness. But I doubt those of the Upton Park faithful are signing up for that. Clouds are in the distance...get your raincoat ready.
But whom, exactly, are these clubs going to be suing? The committee who made the decision for a fine over a pts. deduction? West Ham's owner? If it's West Ham's owner, what can they get from him besides money? It's not as if a court can award a points deduction. This all goes away, either way, and won't change anything for next season.
They're suing the prem, insisting on a points deduction, or their share of the prem money that the weak-kneed decision cost them. Can't say I agree with this, btw. It sounds like a pretty weak hearing.
Sorry, had to run mid statement, don't agree with the arguments of SheffUtd and Co. I don't think a points deduction is warranted here. I was more interested in masc moving on to pool.
The Football League and the Conference and other non-league leagues are very explicit about ineligable players being a points deductible offense. The standard used in the league and in the conference is 3pts minimum, max of however many points earned when the player played up to a maximum of 18pts, if I remember it rightly. Altrincham had a player who they didn't realise needed international clearance last season and got 18pts knocked off, same for AFC Wimbledon in the Isthmian League (or however its spelt) this year but since the Altrincham thing they added an appeal process for it and they won it and only had 3 pts knocked off. And those are paperwork mistakes, rather than deliberate deception. Oh and Bury have been kicked out of cups for fielding a loan player who hadn't had the box to allow them to be cup tied ticked, I think it was. So for every other team who's done something similar accidentally, the punishments have been much more serious than a slap on the wrist that this is, considering it gives them a chance to earn 7x what the fine is costing them. The points that Tevez has earnt West Ham would be ones that would keep them up, and thereby cost one of the teams that go down £35m. I'm not an expert, but to me it looks like they have a case.
Again - it is the issue of West Ham having used an ineligible player for the entire year. Take the plight of Isthmian League AFC Wimbledon. They were thrown out of the FA Trophy competition, fined 400 pounds AND originally docked 18 points for using an ineligible player in a CUP match. Later, the pints deduction was reduced to 3 points on appeal. There is plenty of history of using ineligible players costing teams points. And lets be honest here, that is exactly what occurred. Tevez and Masc were not eligible players under Prem rules - as the independent council said. Tevez had to be re-registered to get him into the game last weekend. To me, this is an ugly situation and West Scam is at the heart of it. They knew it was a shady business transaction. EVERYBODY knew it was a shady business transaction. To me, this falls on the Prem for taking so damn long to investigate it and hold council. The council itself said that it probably would have deducted points if the decision had come earlier in the year. This is bull to me. If it is worth a deduction, it doesn't matter to me if it is the day before the final game or the day after the first. West Scam sould be relegated to League One with Leeds Utd as far as I'm concerned. They have set a very very dangerous precedent here if no points are deducted.
Well maybe if the teams/owners/coaches in the relegation zone worried more about their play on the pitch instead of West Ham, they might win some games and spoil west ham's chances. West Ham were not any more forced to play or sit Tevez than Everton was when forced to sit Tim Howard they played Man U last weekend. The deal was shady, no question, but deducting points is far too harsh a penatly. The second Eggert found the contract FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNERSHIP shady, he reported it. How many other owners would have reported it? Love how no one mentions that. Whiners. COME ON YOU IRONS!!!!!!!!!
Eggert did the right thing. You're right about that. And I do applaud him for having the fortitude to do just that. Youre right - a lot of owners would not have done that. My point is this - there have been numerous cases of teams that use ineligible players being docked points and being thrown out of cup competitions. That is my point. And by Premier League rules, having third parties involved in a contract - as was the case with Masc and Tevez's original move to Upton Park, is not permitted. It's not a matter of me wanting to see West Ham go down. There are other teams I would rather see go down than West Ham personally - although West Ham are far from high on my list. I just think this will set a very dangerous precedence if West Ham are not docked points. If a fine is all that is incurred, you WILL see this happen again. The Prem needs to aggresively pursue this for the integrity of the game.
The only exception to this is that the prem looked at and approved this whole business on the front end. this wasn't a matter of sneaking the guys in. Everyone knew they were coming in, everyone knew the deal was not normal. To now be talking about points it a bit wrong, imo.
The idea of points was always on the table. The independent council even said they would have taken points if it wasn't so late in the season - and that falls on the Prem. WHEN in the season a decision is made should have no effect on the punishment but it obviously did.
Wasn't Manuel Fernandes of Porstmouth also owned by a 3rd party, then recently loaned to Everton? How come these 4-6 teams aren't going after Everton?
I say dock Everton points too then. And I also agree that the Liverpool/Masc decision was crap too - but I think that was a FIFA decision and they make up their rules as they go. Dock West Ham, Portsmouth, and Everton 3 points a piece.
But didn't renegotiate it to clean it up, and didn't prevent the player from playing in some vital games in between then and the league's decision. Even so, it was West Ham that made the contract, so West Ham should get the points dedcution. I thought Manuel Fernandes was on a loan deal that had an agreement to buy after X games, so the loan deal got cancelled just before that and he then got loaned to Everton?
At least that would be "fair". It just seems like these teams are going after West Ham cause, to me, they are sore losers. Maybe West Ham can get to 41 Points so even deducting 3pts won't matter Just teasing, I don't want to mess with karma right now!
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2003242,00.html The Premier League had previously blocked the completion of the deal on the basis that Fernandes is joint-owned by the Portuguese club and a private investment fund - with each party owning a 50% stake in the player
If someone cheats to get ahead in sport, then calling the opposition sore losers. I just don't see how that phrase applies here
Is it possible to be more overdramatic? How did West Ham cheat? LMAO. The ********ing languange in the loan deal was suspect and the new ownership reported it immediately. The teams that are going to sue and use the court system to try to stay up are sore losers, period.
this is definitely a hazy situation, but let me try to reason it out. carlito and javier came to upton park last summer amidst much speculation and eyebrow raising-- nothing was really done about it-- both players had "trouble adjusting" (even through masc looks incredible with liverpool at the moment...even though he rode the pine for the most part at west ham--which makes things even weirder). anyways, every club, and the FA, had plenty of time to probe even a little bit into the spider web that has become this mess. it is 100% likely that Kia's takeover bid played catalyst in this. once the bid crumbled, however, he tried to get both players to come back to corinthians. both players balked and now both are looking like legitimate world beaters. the fact that a fuss is being made now, and that is has intensified only since the prospect of the irons staying up looked likely, shows the ineptitude of all parties involved. it is obviously much too late to deduct points-- it would be worse for the FA to do so well after the final tallys that it would have a few weeks ago. i think that is a case of the FA realizing it screwed up and taking their knocks. if they deduct points now, that would be a worse precedent than allowing west ham to survive unscathed (and allowing mascerano and mighty liverpool ti save face). if that were to happen, it would only draw out this prosess into a deeper quagmire. the best story line of the season, in my opinion, is west ham's. these two players, literally, feel into their laps and as a witness, looking from across the ocean, away from rasbid sheffield united fans, i couldn't help but chuckle. how else could a coup of such massive proportions have happened?! it seems as though west ham have pulled a fast one on the footballing community, and everyone who now feels cheated, and watched idly for months, only dragged their feet on the matter. you can't really fault west ham for making a run for it. it has allowed for tremendous parity in the epl that really doesn't exisit anymore. consider that 12 of those hard earned points came from man u and arsenal. i say well done west ham. they have played beautiful, gritty football and tevez has done more for his career in the past month than he could ever have hoped to do back in brazil. they've won my vote and i am now proudly an irons fan. think of how many fantastic players west have let go through their ranks (like joe cole, lampard, carrick, defoe and rio ferdinand to name a few) they simply haven't had the money, or been 'illustrious' enough to 'warrent' such names, this situation has been a good kick in the groin to the hierarchy that pervades football. west ham, the ultimate underdog, have finally caught a break. now if they can catch another one and keep tevez...well then the future is indeed bright for all us bubble blowers.