4 Nations Tournament

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kool-aide, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Roster announced

    GOALKEEPERS (2): Nicole Barnhart (out of contract), Ashlyn Harris (Western New York Flash)

    DEFENDERS (7): Rachel Buehler (Boston Breakers), Stephanie Cox (Boston Breakers), Amy LePeilbet (Boston Breakers), Heather Mitts (out of contract), Christie Rampone (out of contract) Becky Sauerbrunn (Washington Freedom), Brittany Taylor (Sky Blue FC)

    MIDFIELDERS (10): Yael Averbuch (Western New York Flash), Shannon Boxx (out of contract), Tobin Heath (Sky Blue FC), Meghan Klingenberg (North Carolina), Lori Lindsey (Philadelphia Independence), Carli Lloyd (Atlanta Beat), Kelley O’Hara (Boston Breakers), Heather O’Reilly (Sky Blue FC), Megan Rapinoe (Philadelphia Independence), Lindsay Tarpley (out of contract)

    FORWARDS (4): Lauren Cheney (Boston Breakers), Sydney Leroux (UCLA), Alex Morgan (California), Amy Rodriguez (Philadelphia Independence)

    No Osborne was the more interesting omission in my 10 sec analysis. And contrary to some other Pia rosters, a lot of flank players. 10 mids is a lot.

    eta: What. When did Mitts become "out of contract" heads to Philly board...

    eta2: I should have included this note just so people who don't click links don't have to ask:

     
  2. FawcettFan14

    FawcettFan14 Member+

    Mar 19, 2004
    Colorado
    Interesting roster.

    As for goalkeeping, I wouldn't be surprised if Ashlyn Harris takes this window of opportunity (Loyden's hand injury) to claim the 3rd spot (or higher) for the World Cup. If Hope has a slower than expected return from her shoulder issue, the sky is the limit for Harris, based on last season's WPS form.

    Klingenberg is listed as a midfielder, and I know she played there for UNC, but she might be a possible long term solution for the US' left back problem, in the absence of Lori Chalupny. She performed in that position with aplomb at the 2008 U-20 World Cup. I also hope that Taylor gets some quality time. Of course, this would mean that Pia would have to bench one or more of Rampone, Beuhler, LePeilbet, and Mitts, which has proven difficult for her to do.

    Osborne is the most notable omission. It seems Averbuch really has the upper hand as far as defensive/distribution type midfielder goes.

    Glad to see Kelley O'Hara rewarded for her hard work in camp (finished first in the beep fitness test). She adds some good speed and tenacity.

    I can't wait to see what personnel/formation/tactics Pia deploys in the absence of Abby Wambach. Without her dominating presence up top, I would opt for a more offensive minded 4-3-3 to get more numbers forward. For this tournament, I would feel inclined to reward the newer players who showed well in camp by giving them the lion's share of playing time, and bring in the veterans off the bench in supplementary roles. Remember Pia, the results here really don't matter. I would gladly take a tie or loss here and there if it meant experimentation was happening and new players were being integrated.

    --------------------------Harris----------------------------
    --Sauerbrunn----LePeilbet----Taylor---Klingenberg-----
    ------------------------Averbuch--------------------------
    ---------------Tarpley----------Heath---------------------
    -------O'Hara--------Cheney--------Morgan------------

    O'Hara could drop back if they needed more help in midfield.
     
  3. Lorrie Fair

    Lorrie Fair Member

    Jul 31, 2010
    I would love to see that ^^^

    You know that will never happen.
     
  4. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FawcettFan, I agree w/ some of your text (which I'll post about later) but I think that midfield you post would get shredded in ways I don't think the defense behind them can handle. And for heaven's sake they shouldn't try to play a high line as no one has 2008 Rampone recovery speed (and neither does 2010/2011 Rampone).

    And LePeilbet's last couple of games have been about the worst I've ever seen her play. Maybe that means she'll never play like that again. Or maybe something else is going on w/ her. Either way, were I to think about playing the lineup you post, I'd probably put Rampone in where you've put LePeilbet.
     
  5. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "I would gladly take a tie or loss here and there if it meant experimentation was happening and new players were being integrated."

    I'll agree with this. Who else will? If you do, and if there is experimentation and new players being integrated, it means you won't be able to chastise Pia if there is a loss or tie here and there.
     
  6. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As for criticizing Pia if games go pear shaped w/ new/different players. For me, it depends on how she experiments and/or tries to integrate. If she's doing it by putting very obviously square pegs in very obvious round holes, I think it is fair to chastise Pia for that choice. The Averbuch as left mid thing springs to mind. It isn't new but if it were, and Pia did that in China, I think it is fair for us to b!tch about it.
     
  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand. One has to decide on what constitutes reasonable experimentation and integration of new players. But, I think there's a point to a person thinking it through and deciding in advance. Otherwise, we end up with people saying they are willing to take chances on losing some games in order to experiment and integrate new players and then, when she does it, they complain because of the losses. Then, all the board turns into is a complaint session no matter what.
     
  8. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. I was just pointing out where my "line" was, so to speak.

    My basic "hopes" for this particular tournament (and the camp that preceded it) (aside from the team generally showing better than the last 3 games) is that other players do well enough that Mitts and Lloyd are no longer top choices for Pia. I know that is mean. But, well, there's where I am at--a big fat meanie who wants those two off the WWC roster. I think there are enough players at those positions that have higher short term (ie 1 year) upside and played at a higher level over the last 2 years that neither should be first choices for Pia.
     
  9. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    1. Happy to see Kling, Leroux and Taylor in the miss
    2. dissapointed Osbourne, mewis and angelini weren't included
    3. Tobin is match ready? hope so.
    4. the young group of forwards is exciting.

    --------------------------Harris----------------------------
    --Sauerbrunn----Rampone----Taylor---Klingenberg-----
    -------------------------- Yael--------------------------
    -----Ohara/Hao-------Lindsey-----------Heath/ohara-----------
    --------------Leroux --------- Morgan----------------

    I'd like to see this for at least a game.
    I think it combines some of our most technical players, Lindsey, heath, Ohara, Morgan.
    with some of our most powerful and speedy. In this formation, Lindsey's speed will be fine and she can do what she does best, pass the ball. When you have targets like Ohara, Leroux, Morgan, heath you need someone who can pass, Lloyd doesn't cut it.
    Not the biggest fan of Yael, but, with no Osbourne....


    oh, I'd also like to see what Fawcett put, except replace Tarp with someone.
     
  10. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm glad Leroux is finally going. Disappointed to see no Engen, not that I expected it. I'm also shocked Osbourne isnt going. Is Averbuch really better? Really?


    Oh well.. I'd expect the starting lineup in the first game to be:

    [LINEUP-4-4-2]Wambach, Rodriquez, Rapinoe, Lloyd, Boxx, O'Reilly, Beuhler, LePeilbet, Rampone, Mitts, Barnhart[/LINEUP-4-4-2]

    Maybe we'll see Krieger in for Mitts.

    I know people will want to see Heath starting out there, but I hope she doesn't start. She needs to get in a few minutes as a sub seeing as she hasn't played a real game in almost a year.

    Morgan should start over Rodriquez. Will she though? Doubt it.


    I'd love to see the different players in.. but really this looks like it'll be same old same old..
     
  11. Lorrie Fair

    Lorrie Fair Member

    Jul 31, 2010
    That is your starting world cup roster right there ^

    They will not win it with that lineup. Pia won't change.
     
  12. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    Forever - Abby isn't going to china, so we won't see her starting...so Pia will at least be forced to make 1 change. i'm glad for that.
    I thought Osbourne very much outplayed Yael all season..sigh
     
  13. gogogo

    gogogo Member

    Apr 18, 2002
    Krieger will be on the World Cup squad and will see plenty of playing time - Pia wants/needs someone who routinely has played the Germans. (The foregoing is just another fearless prediction - hope it turns out better than my prophecy/brain-freeze that the US would beat Mexico "handily" in qualifying).
     
  14. FawcettFan14

    FawcettFan14 Member+

    Mar 19, 2004
    Colorado
    Those are legitimate points, kool-aide. Despite several poor showings lately, I still think LePeilbet is our best pure defender these days. But you're right that Rampone might be a better complement to an inexperienced backline. She might have lost a step since 2008, but she's still probably our fastest defender (which is kind of scary).

    After the fact, I realized as you did that the midfield I suggested was lacking a bit for "teeth". Thats why I added the caveat about O'Hara becoming a fourth midfielder, if needed. But maybe a second holding mid alongside Averbuch would be a wiser option. I think I'm just overeager to try out our newer offensive options. :)
     
  15. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ahh yes I forgot about that thank you. Unfortunately, having someone replace Wambach for this tournament isn't going to solve our issues. Hopefully someone like Morgan, Cheney, Leroux, or even A-Rod step up this tournament and take command. Prove they are the person to partner with Wambach.
     
  16. kittenbiscuits

    kittenbiscuits New Member

    May 8, 2010
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what?! am i missing something?
     
  17. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well replace Wambach with Cheney or Morgan. But I assume that's what's expected?
     
  18. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    ForeverLOST108 is bang on in terms of the WC opener line up, this current 4 nation tournament is simply for Sundhage to check out sub options. If U.S. fans are serious about seeing progression pre WC though, you'll want to see the WNT leave out starters and have some random results in tournaments like this one.

    Unfortunately the only way significant changes may happen now would be injury related from now on. That's why friendly tournament situations like this must be for the understudy players to come to the fore.

    Talk of playing options for a possible WC game vs Germany should be way of the radar for U.S. fans right now, as this scenario is highly unlikely to happen for various reasons. Take a look at the 08 Olympic teams style and expect more of the same folks, as that's the blueprint for this current U.S. side too.
     
  19. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    too many wholesale changes. things tend to go awry because there are too many new players who don't know each others tendencies.

    two or so new players for 60 minutes or so each game, with another two or three new ones introduced as subs - but playing with an intact unit - that's when you're more likely to learn something useful.
     
  20. kittenbiscuits

    kittenbiscuits New Member

    May 8, 2010
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    nah i meant i didn't realize krieger was going.
     
  21. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    I think a lot of that will depends on who's playing in the center of the midfield for us. if it's lloyd and boxxy again, we can expect the same 07 WC and 08 Olympic play. If some of the positions change though, I think the tactics will as well.. or i pray
     
  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I actually feel the bad play of the ever present Llyod and Boxx combo will lead to bigger problems than recent tournaments would suggest. Sundhage seems to trust the Llyod Boxx combo to come good at some point, but the 4-4-2 USA now play will only continue to highlight areas of weakness.

    USA simply do not have the true wide players for a dynamic 4-4-2 formation, and have tried to convert forwards into something resembling what real wingers do instead. If Sundhage could try out a plan B in China which had USA play another formation, that could be the start of something good.

    I really don't think the forward options are the focus of this China trip, I would imagine seeing a lot of tinkering with the balance between the defence and midfield. Left back and left wing starting spots will be the big prize up for grabs, with Meghan Klingenberg possibly being the answer to the U.S. Chalupny problem.
     
  23. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Boxx's play is the problem. She's not playing badly. I don't think she's got the legs for 90' a game for the entire WWC. But she's not playing badly. Lloyd otoh, well, I think I've said my piece.
     
  24. FawcettFan14

    FawcettFan14 Member+

    Mar 19, 2004
    Colorado
    I agree. IMO, the main reason Boxx's play has looked mediocre of late is that she is being asked to do too much. At 33 (nearly 34 come Germany), she is no spring chicken. The fundamentals of her game (heading, passing, shooting) are still strong enough to warrant a starting position on this team, but when Pia demands that she and Lloyd sit alongside one another in a flat 4-4-2 match after match and cover the length of the field, her legs are bound to get heavy and her technical strengths will suffer. Fatigue leads to sloppiness. Besides, Boxx and Lloyd aren't very good at trading off offensive and defensive responsibilities. It could be communication breakdowns (although that shouldn't happen considering how long they've been paired together), or lack of tactical awareness, or something else entirely. Sometimes they will both get caught forward, exposing the defense to counterattacks, and sometimes they sit too deep and the formation becomes an empty bucket, leading to a stagnant offense. Playing Boxx more withdrawn would help mitigate these problems.

    Its tough to suggest relegating Boxx to a strictly defensive midfielder, because she certainly has positive offensive qualities (her powerful shot and heading presence). But for her effectiveness to be maximized, I fear that its a necessity to give her a more defined and restricted role, and let the other midfielders take care of running the offense.
     
  25. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its amazing to look at the stats and realize Lloyd had the most points of any midfield player in '10. She was 4th on the team behind Wambach, Rodriquez, and Cheney.

    Granted, just because you score or get a few assists doesn't mean you are doing your job. But it sure isn't gonna warrant Pia to think she's playing horribly. It's too bad though, because we've all see that she is clearly not cutting it yet she'll still start every game during the World Cup.


    2012 Olympics anyone? :rolleyes:
     

Share This Page