So maybe people can refresh my memory with the 4-2-2-2. Wasn't this a formation that a lot of former Brazil teams used? If my memory serves me right they succeeded with this due to two solid box to box midfielders and creative outside/attacking mids. I'm not too familiar with many teams past the late 1990's so I wouldn't know who these players were. My point to all this is asking if we have the style of players to possible use this formation. Could this work? ----------------------Howard------------------------ Chandler---------Cam-------????????-------Fabian ---------------Bradley---------Jones----------------- -----Donovan-------------------------Dempsey------ ----------------Altidore------Boyd-------------------- Again i'm not too familiar with this formation and from what i've gathered was that the two center mids were work horses and basically were the heart and soul of the team. This allowing the two outside/attacking mids to work their magic. But i'm not familiar as to what style of fowards or even defenders for that matter were needed. I'm assuming the fowards would need to be more active in coming to the ball instead of crashing the goal when in transition. Just looking to start a discussion.
This formation is pretty much what Bob Bradley went with. It fits our personnel as you say. In the past, this type of lineup has lead to holes behind MB and JJ at times. As such, JK has sacrificed a striker and put a DM shield behind Jones and Bradley.
But wasn't Bob more reliant on Dempsey and Donovan playing wider? It does look like the old 4-4-2 Bradley would play.
Donovan and Dempsey slid inside a lot under BB's use of the 4-2-2-2; they were not wingers by any means. The system probably peaked during the short period of time between the 2009 Confed Cup and the end of the Hexagonal, when Davies was injured in the car wreck. --------------Davies-----------Alidore------------ --------Donovan------------------Dempsey------ ------------------Clark-----Bradley--------------- Boca--------DeMerit---Onyewu----Cherundolo BB never found a multifacited partner for Jozy up top, so it began to bog down offensively. There was also a stretch of time in 2008 when the system got the negative term "empty bucket" put on it by many BS posters. But once the Davies+Altidore pairing started to click, Donovan and Dempsey started to hit their terrific form, and Mastro was replaced as an aging, defensive CM, that empty bucket look faded away. It may still be a good system for the US now. Depends on how well Donovan and Dempsey can hold up in those very physically demanding roles as they enter their 30s and whether a good partner for Jozy can be found. Bradley and Jones "should" be a good CM pairing, but that partnership hasn't been too great the few times it has been used. Edu's OK with Bradley. A 100% fit Holden might be the best pairing with MB, but who knows if that will ever happen. Plus JK seems much more interested in a 3-CM system and a single striker as the core system, so I'm not sure it is realistic to see the 4-2-2-2 anytime soon.
I think the fact that both Donovan and Dempsey have skills that are more suited to cutting in than hugging the line (especially Clint) led to the lineup shaping up like 4-2-2-2. That, and the fact that we needed those two guys getting into the box because they were by far our best finishing threats.
One can play a 4-4-2 with Altidore-Gomez on top ... but I do think a 3-5-2 (several English clubs played it over the weekend, did they not?) with Tim Chandler and Fab Johnson as wingbacks may be worth exploring.
Like this? -----------------Altidore------Gomez---------------- ------------------------Dempsey---------------------- Johnson--------------Donovan------------Chandler -------------------------Bradley----------------------- -----------Cameron---Goodson---Edu-------------- Or do you drop Gomez and move one of Dempsey or Donovan up top, while adding Jones, like this? -----------------Altidore-----Dempsey---------------- ------------------------Donovan---------------------- Johnson--------------Bradley------------Chandler -------------------------Jones------------------------ -----------Cameron---Goodson---Edu-------------- I wouldn't mind seeing the second version tested at some point, if you can get Jones to stay back and be disciplined.
I understand these lineups and the desire to try them out. But honestly, the bottom formation especially is going to play out just like the 4-3-3. The front 3 of Dempsey-Jozy-LD will shape up like that top triangle that you have, as Donovan or Dempsey both cut in and one would likely be checking back to receive the ball. Chandler and Johnson already go forward with abandon, so whether you call them wingbacks or not, the fact is that they'll be involved in buildup for sure. Cameron-Goodson would be your true CBs, and Edu would play just in front. In fact, haven't people basically been saying that Edu was like a 3rd CB in many of the recent matchers? That leaves Jones and Bradley, who under JK have played a bit staggered anyway - the only thing is that to my eye, Jones gets forward a bit more, whereas in your formation you have Bradley slightly more advanced (which I tend to agree makes more sense). As for the top formation, I think it demands too much of Donovan to ask him to be a true CM. That, plus I would hesitate to drop Jones for Gomez.
I've never been a big fan of the 3-5-2, but I understand its potential appeal under the circumstances where the US has an abundance of midfielders. Mostly, I was curious how SFS would set up the 3-5-2 he suggested. Theoretically, the 3-5-2 with the players I hypothesized, might improve US ball possession a small amount, since there is only one truly weak ball handler in the lineup in Goodson. And if you wanted to really push possession, you'd put Ream or Parkhurst in for Goodson, and maybe add Torres in central midfield instead of Jones. But push comes to shove, the US will still lose the possession game to the likes of Spain and Mexico, while controlling possession against many of the weaker teams we might face. I actually imagine SFS's 3-5-2 being more about high pressure and midfield conjestion than about pure ball possession. Plus, Johnson and Chandler would be close to ideal wingers for a 3-5-2, even better than Hejduk and Jones were way back when. And Castillo, Shea, Lichaj and Gatt would be nice wingback subs for depth. On the other hand, it would hasten Cherundolo's international retirement. Personally, I'd go with a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 setup, while still using Johnson and Chandler as assertive wingbacks.
Yeah, but if 2 of the 5 midfielders are actually wingbacks (Chandler, Johnson), you're not actually adding more midfielders. In reality, you are dropping a midfielder and adding a CB (Edu as a CB in this case). But since, we've been using Edu (outside of Mexico) just above the 2 CBs, almost as a 3rd CB, it still seems like the same overall idea.
To be clear anyone the MNT uses as a #6 under JK needs to be positioned 10-15 yards at the tip of a triangle in front of the 2 CB. Beckerman(6), Edu(5), Larentowicz(1), Clark(1), and Bradley(2) have all played the #6 role.
we have needed protection of our back 4 mostly because our CBs, cant control the ball, posses and build up our game from the back IF we had Chandler or Lichaj we could attack more with our FBs and keep our DM very deep and continue to protect our CBs and b used as the destroyer chandler - camer - edu - johnson -----------------jones-------------- donovan------bradley -----dempsey --------gomez--------altidore------ with the 2 FBs pushing forward and Jones staying deep on D ------cameron - edu ------- ------------jones------------ chandler--------------johnson donovan---bradley ---dempsey ------gomez------altidore----- and wed have boyd, shea, klejstan, zusi, beckerman, lichaj as subs
Is there anybody with any insight on the teams that use the 4-2-2-2 successfully? The 98 Brazil team used this formation to make it to the WC final from what Ive read. Not sure if the US have any players like Ronaldo, Dunga, Rivaldo or Roberto Carlos.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/25/villarreal-thrive-perfect-football-ecosystem http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/11/05/villarreal-brazilian/ Villarreal is the most noteworthy European club to use the system in recent times. The above links point to a couple of nice articles. Imo the US doesn't have the attacking midfielders and forwards to make running the system worthwhile.