350 Million Dlrs in 9 years????

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by whip, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    Which is not the point anyone was making.

    You said if they don't have MLS they will fall off the face of the earth.

    This poster and I proved that you were wrong.

    Can't you just acknowledge that?

    Your point was wrong and has been proven so.

    Only people like Nugent with little fall off the earth. Serious professionals like Ching do what it takes to get to the top.

    You seem to want to create more spots for the no talents to hang around.

    For the life of me i can't understand why.
     
  2. ILLAB

    ILLAB New Member

    Jul 5, 2004
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    You're acting like it the bench players fault that they are forced to play. Like you said squads get depleted. You can't avoid injuries and national team callups(unless you change the schedule but thats a whole other topic). You act like if the rosters expand to from 24 to 28 that those four players who otherwise would not have been good enough to play will now play. If one of the top dozen of so players cant play they will be replaced by the next five or so best players under the new system and the current system. The extra four players wont get minutes unless they prove they are one of the top reserves in the reserve matches.

    The reason its "painful to watch" the backups take over is because they barely get any time throughout the year. With extra players and reserve matches you be able to gauge which player will step up in the real games, the younger players get valuble playing time, and the transition will be smoother when a roster is depleted.
     
  3. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    You are right there are six.

    Why would it hinder P40? If teams want to sign dev players let them. They just shouldn't be required to. Give them the freedom to sacrifice high salaried players for more low to medium salaried players if they think they can get more value that way.

    As comapred to what?

    What system? There is no system it is a classification. The fact of the matter is they have to the talent to play in MLS and would have made the teams at some point. There is no need to require teams to sign anytype of player.

    Am I supposed to feel support an idea I don't like or agree with just because my team benefits from it?

    We need to concentrate on talent not price.

    I want to see flat limit on foreigners so that if teams want to gte creative and avoid expensive older players they can do so. I would have loved to have Edgar on this team this year.
     
  4. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    1. If they are not going to play they don't need to be on the team.

    2. Nowhere in the world are reserve games at all competitive. And I don't expect that to change here.

    3. Its painful to watch because the talent isn't there. More talent less quantity.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    Agreed. When the MLS Reserve Teams get going, the A-league will essentially be useless. I'm convinced we're only going to see it for a few more years as we know it. Another team, Syracuse, folded this week. There are about 5 US A-league teams that have any chance of prolonged success (Rochester, Charleston, Seattle, Portland, Minnesotta). The Syracuse team folded because of debt estimated at 300k. Imagine if we had promotion/relegation and this team made the jump to MLS (not impossible as they lost in the semis this year). They couldn't manage those losses for 1 year. Enough with that debate.
     
  6. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    the a-league will never be useless and the developmental slots on mls teams will never be a bad thing (i don't care if we do get an mls reserve league... the a-league will still be a necessity)

    both are needed... because the more players playing professional soccer, the more likely we are to get better as a soccer nation... the more likely we will find real stars

    to say one or the other shouldn't be done is 100% stupidity


    hell... we need the psl and pdl as well... even college ball...

    we need to keep as many players playing as long as possible at as high a level as we can get them at

    most guys never make it to the point many think they will get, others need more chances or just a chance... anywhere



    this isn't physics... there isn't one right answer....

    this is a professional sport performed by people... mistakes are inherent... so they need all the chances they can get to show they can do it... scouts ******** up, players ******** up, coaches ******** up, money gets in the way, location gets in the way... everything and anything can ******** up someone's chances... so the more spots we have out there... the more likely we'll get that potential stud a place to grow
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Three more A-league teams have gone under this off-season (Syracuse, Edmonton, and Calgary). There's all sorts of rumors swirling on the USL boards that Milwaukee is in trouble. This league needs stability BIG TIME. So there are now going to be 12 A-league teams. Rochester and Seattle both want to go up to MLS, and it wouldn't shock me if they were the next two expansion cities. Hopefully they can sustain themselves by "promoting" teams like Des Moines. Perhaps the MLS Reserve teams can play in the A-league? That would require a lot of negotioations, I know, but there are teams like Charleston that are "tweeners." Too small for MLS, too big for PDL.
     
  8. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    well... i rather doubt there will be reserve teams next year

    i imagine it will be just expanded developmental rosters
     
  9. WHOLMAN2

    WHOLMAN2 New Member

    Dec 4, 2000
    Lahs Angeleez
    Hmmm.... $350 million in losses to fund a league for 9 years.
    I wonder how much it would cost to buy the United Soccer Leagues? ;)
     
  10. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    I already listed why it would hurt the P40 program in my previous post. Without being roster protected before the Development Roster classification/program, teams often passed on these players in the draft for players they felt were more developed. That meant not many college players were coming out for P-40 because they didn't know when or if they were going to be picked. Roster protection allows the coaches to pick developing players like P-40 players and certain top NCAA seniors and have room in the 18 SR to sign the TIs, SIs, returning Americans, and top of the top NCAA senior players.

    Also teams don't HAVE to sign developmental players if they don't want to. There's been several teams over the 3 years of the program that haven't filled their Developmental Roster. Just like several teams haven't and aren't required to fill out their whole 18 SR.


    Compair what to what here, I don't understand what your saying. I've already made my compairison. The DP classification/program has created more MLS starters since it's inception in 2002 then the A-League has over the same period.

    One thing I disagree with you on is these players aren't some trash MLS found on the street and decided to give them jobs kicking a ball. The DPs are all college standouts, who were probably the top players on their team and most of them are pretty decent players. These players have skills and what "development" means is they need to learn what it takes to be a Professional.



    But still you make the biggest point against your argument. There's all these current and former DPs who've earned starting roles or even pretty good utility roles that DIDN'T HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. MLS didn't have to pay loan or purchase fees for them like they had to for Ching, Onstad, and Testo. Teams didn't have to spend more money to scout all those A-League clubs because they already had the talent on their own rosters. All the while those DPs are leaning what it takes to be a PROFESSIONAL from the likes of McBride, Preki, Guevara, and Pope instead of learning how to be a pro from the likes of Scott Schweitzer and Paul Conway. Take David Testo who was the big A-League signing this year and a member or the U-23 team, you didn't see much of him this year did you? You know Why? The coaches didn't feel early on he knew how to work and train as a MLS Professional. It took him almoast 3/4ths of the year until the coaches felt he was actually ready for MLS. If he'd been a DP for a year instead of in the A-League that might have been different or maybe not.

    You ever wonder why DPs choose to go the DP route and not to the A-League? As you've stated the A-League probably pays them more money and they probalby get more playing time there too. Yet all these players spend a year or two making $850 a month. They do that because they want to "develop" as a PROFESSIONAL on a first division club and the coaches and GMs in MLS believe they can do it or they wouldn't have them on their club.
     
  11. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    Can't play 20 replies.

    I brought up the point "A-League developed". It's a big issue to me. Is this where young players are best suited to progress. I'm not convinced.

    Ideally MLS would have youth teams too. Reserve teams are the first step. NCAA makes youth teams difficult.

    Give me some A-League salary info then. MLS dev players often get free housing, etc. It doesn't take much in your early 20s to get by. What would keep me in pro soccer is to know the potential to make it BIG is really there.

    You proved nothing.

    I still want the A-League out there. Not convinced they have the means to develop players. I think players do improve after age 18, up to 23, and that improvement is something of a product of their environment.

    A-League players play indoor in the winter. Coach and do other stuff to make end meets. I'm not convinced it's a professional atmosphere. And I'm not saying MLS 100% is yet either.
     
  12. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    I want teams to have the option of signing more than 18 senior roster players if they choose or more than 6 dev players if they want. I don't see how that hurts P40.

    So why have any restrictions at all? Why not give them even more options.

    Thats nice and all but I was never arguing about who is better at developing talent. I was arguing that it was better to give these players more playing time somewhere else.

    1. This is why I said sign them and loan them out. I didn't say anything about buying any players the A-League developed.

    2. There are plenty of players who have played in MLS who I don't should be allowed to be around any young player (Mathis being one of them). There are bad apples everywhere

    3. The Creww are where young palyers go to die. Erick Scott didn't get any playing time either.

    4. Just because a player doesn't make an immediate impact in MLS means they don't know how to be a professional? Galvan Rey spent a lot of time in leagues much better than MLS and did squat here. Its called and adjustment. There is nothing mythical about being an MLS professional.


    There is nothing mythical about being an MLS professional.

    They do it mostly for the cache of being on an ML team. Other players take a different route and turn out just fine.
     
  13. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    Roster limits serve many purposes in MLS. One of which is keeping the League viable, one is giving Americans and young Americans a chance at first divison soccer, one is getting talented Internations young and old in MLS, and one is competive balance.

    It's working too. More and more talented P-40s are entering MLS every year and coaches are picking them up. Better young internationals are coming in from the CONCACAF region every year. Every single year a few DPs rise to the level of MLS and becoming starters. Also the growth of the American player in general and the national team are going up as well.

    None of that would have happened without MLS's roster restrictions.

    The hell you weren't and the DP system has proven to be a lot better then sending these players to A-League clubs to train and play with lower level players and substandard facilities. You can't just ignore the number of DPs that have become starters over those who have come from the A-League in the same time period of it's inception. You want to, but you can't. Add in the rumored reserve teams and it gets even better.

    No ********. I could care less about those guy's attitutes. I was saying who would you rather train and learn from Scott Schwitzer or Eddie Pope?

    Yep and those Metros sure are great at pumping out that great young talent. I mean it's not like the Crew have 3 former players in the EPL and the Metros have none. It's not like the Crew have two players who grew up with the Crew in the top 10 in all-time points. It's not like Edson Buddle scored 11 goals this year and the best Metro 23 and Under could do was 7. Yep those Crew sure have screwed up Szetela too. I hear the Crew have ********ed him up so bad he won't even look at a soccer ball now. I mean where do the Crew stand up to a mighty assent like Eddie Gaven the one ********ing good young player the Metros have ever had.

    I mean look at the damage we did to young Eric Scott and David Testo. Of course I guess Testo being late to every practice and not bothering to show up to another in the first 2 months of the season had nothing to do with his playing time or development. He's a great professional. And despite the fact Eric was with Costa Rica for most of the year and when he was here hardly bothered to practice at full speed, he definatly should of played a lot more.

    Galvin Ray is 32, the players were talking about are U24 and just out of college. I don't care what profession your in, professional sports or the business world, at that age you have a lot to learn about your profession and how to be a Professional.

    They do it to be secure????? Making $850 a month where the team can drop you at anytime sure sounds secure to me. I guess it has nothing to do with the fact they get to play and train with some of the best players America has to offer or nothing to do with the chance to prove you can start and get a full contract like Perkins did this year.

    Other players do take other routes and turn up just fine, but for the large majority of them, just not to MLS.
     
  14. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years????

    How allowing teams more freedom to sign palyers make the league less viable? Will it cost more money? Why do people like to trot out this NASL argument so much.

    I don't have to ignore the number I don't. But what I won't ignore is the fact that a lot of these guys seem to be hanging during a period of time in which the scoring production in the league has gone down.

    We are producing warm bodies what is not at all clear is whether we are really producing good players.

    Some people here are obsessed with the number of DP's who turn into starters. But getting a starting spot in a league that is experiencing a talent decline is not as impressive as you make it out to be no matter how many statistics you trot out.


    1. Tim Howard.

    2. Edson Buddle scored four more goals than a second year attacking midfielder. Only a Crew fan would take pride in that.

    No you are talking about professionalism and the effect it has on your ability to play the game.

    You have this belief that if you don't have this magical professionalism aura a round you you can't play in MLS. Galvan Rey is a super professional and has failed. That point is dead.

    Professionalism has little effect on success in MLS (see Clint Mathis).



    1. Cache != Security

    2. Uh "getting to play and train with some of the best players America has to offer " is exactly what I was getting.

    3. You seem to be agree to my point. They don't do it for the opportunity they do for the status of being an MLS player.

    Which in anof itself is not proof that it is not a viable route.
     
  15. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Look the word up. Either you meant to write somthing else or your writing about security. As for the rest of your post, you just continue to show your ignorance.

    Only a Metro fan would take pride in that.
     
  16. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    Its a typo. The word is cachet.
     

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