32 teams to an All-time Word Cup Finals

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by Excape Goat, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. braine

    braine Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Belgium
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    From the forwards here mentioned,3 players played together in 1 team in the late '70.
    For the Belgian club Lokeren,it was the famous 'L'attack ;Lato,Lubanski and (Elkjaer)Larsen.
    Eventough Lato and Lubanski were over their prime and Elkjaer Larsen very young they kicked ass in the Belgian league and reached far in the UEFA-cup.
     
  2. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Poland got 3rd place twice. I think that alone makes them better than Denmark.

    Zamorano was unlucky not to score. Zamorano was probably the force of the Chilean team. This is a thing were stats don't tell the whole picture. Eventhough Salas scored 4 times, I would say that only in the Italy game did he played better than Zamorano. I thought Zamorano looked better in the rest of the games that Salas but didn't have his luck.
     
  3. andykeikei

    andykeikei New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Here is how I see it:
    GK: Schmeichel is better than Tomaszewki (Although Tomaszewki had 2 posts! LOL!)

    Defender: Zmuda is better defensively than any defender Denmark can throw out. Morten Olsen is better going forward than Gorgon. Sivebaek, H. Andersen, Heintze are solid fullback; the same can be said to Szymanowski and Anczok. Overall, I would say Poland's backline is more consistent than Denmark's.

    Midfield: M. Laudrup is the best AM of two teams, likewise Denya is the best CM. Denmark also provide talent players like Molby, Lerby, Jorgensen, Arnesen; on the other hand I do not know any other names from Poland other than Boniek and Kasperczak. Overall, I would give the creativity edge to Denmark.

    Foward: In my opinion Lato is better than B. Laudrup. Lubanski and may be Szarmach is better than Elkjaer. But John Hansen, Simonsen, Jesper Olsen is better than Gadocha. On the other hand Pohl and Wilimowski is better than anyone Denmark has in center forward. Overall I would again give the creativity edge to Denmark, but Poland's forwards are much better in scoring goals.

    It is indeed hard to decide who is better on talent level. But since Poland has the edge in history and records, I would still say they go in before Denmark.
     
  4. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    What you guys think of Austria compared to Poland and Denmark? Are they in?
     
  5. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    Austria is right there on the 14th or 15th spot out of the 13 slots because of the Wunderteam. I don't know how many post-War players or players not on the Wunderteam could make into their all-time best XI. Krankl, Pezzey and Koncilia?

    I am not contridicting myself when I put Hungary in there. Hungary has a good pre-War team before the Golden Generation, and then, a decent team after the Golden Generation. Albert could easily make an impact as a sub even if he does not get into the starting eleven. I am also including Kubala on their team. As I said before, this is about an all-time team, not players who played in the WC Finals. I have not sort out the details of those multinational players.

    Come to think of it.... does it mean that Di Stefano is a member of Colombian NT? He can swing Colombia into the Peru-Chile debate.
     
  6. braine

    braine Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Belgium
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Think it would be fair that we use the FIFA-rule from nowadays ,that says you can only play for 1 national team...
    So the first NT they play for is the one they belong to...
    (Sivori,Di Stefano for Argentina,Puskas,Kubala for Hungary...)

    Hungary should have a very strong XI-team !! the magic '54 team + Florian Albert,Bene,Kubala,Lajos Dettari.
    A tough job for the headcoach to decide who are the ones to warm the bench with so many offensive qualityplayers !:D
     
  7. andykeikei

    andykeikei New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    And Di Stefano united with Maradona...it would be one scary team!:eek:
     
  8. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I haven't watched the Chile games since the '98 World Cup so in truth, I can't really give a great indication on Zamorano's performances. Despite that, I thought Zamorano could have done better considering the reputation that he had. On paper, Zamorano and Salas was one of the better strike partnerships at that World Cup.

    True. West Germany's team wasn't as good as the side tha they had four years later and then there was Italy, who had their usual issues with squad selection and an Italian journalist wrote a derogatory atricle about Chile. That triggered the Battle of Santiago.
     
  9. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Definitely Herbert Prohaska. Such an excellent midfielder. Very underrated it seems. Arguably better than any player of the Wunderteam bar Sindelar.
     
  10. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    For Hungary, one also has to consider the players of the 1930s. Gyorgy Sarosi & Gyula Zsengeller spring to mind.

    Sarosi actually was rated as one of the best footballers of his era. He once scored 7 goals against Frantisek Planicka, himself one of the finest keepers of the 1930s.

    I selected Dr. Sarosi for my team in the BigSoccer All-Time Draft 4 years ago & this is the profile I wrote:

    DR. GYÖRGY SAROSI

    [​IMG]

    Born: 16 September 1912.

    Died: 20 June 1993.

    Nick name: Gyuri, King of Football.

    Position: Inside forward, center forward and center half.

    Caps:
    61 (1931-1943) / 42 goals

    League Games:
    383 (1930-1948) / 351 goals

    Trophies & Tournaments:
    World Cup beaten finalist: 1938
    World Cup participant: 1934, 1938
    Mitropa Cup: 1937
    Hungarian Champion: 1932, 1934, 1938, 1940, 1941
    Hungarian runner-up: 1935, 1937, 1939, 1944, 1945
    Hungarian Cup winner: 1933, 1935, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1946
    Hungarian Cup beaten finalist: 1931, 1932
    Top Scorer Hungary: 1936, 1940, 1941

    Dr. György Sarosi was one of the world’s greatest footballers between the two World Wars. During his career, he scored 393 goals for Hungary and his club Ferencvaros in 444 games over a period spanning 18 years (1930 to 1948). Of the great generation of Hungarians that came before the Magic Magyars of the 1950s, Sarosi led his teammates to the 1938 World Cup final in which his team lost to the defending champions Italy despite him scoring a goal. Possessing a superb technique and supreme football intelligence, Sarosi was a sophisticated person on and off the pitch, equally adept at playing center forward and at dropping back creating opportunities for his teammates as inside right or inside left and since he was also very strong in the air, Sarosi was known be a very good center half as well.

    Sarosi played his first game for Hungary on May 21 1931 in Belgrade vs Yugoslavia, which the Magyars lost 2-3. His last game he played in November 1943 against Sweden (2-7 defeat). His personal highlight while playing for Hungary came on 19 September 1937, when he scored seven goals against Frantisek Planicka in Hungary’s 8-3 victory over World Cup runners-up Czechoslovakia. Sarosi played his first World Cup in 1934 but missed the first game vs. Egypt. In the second round against the strong Austrians Sarosi could not prevent a 1-2 defeat, scoring Hungary’s only goal. Things went better for the Magyars four years later, in the first round they crushed the Dutch East Indies 6-0 (two goals by Sarosi), then eliminated the Swiss by winning 2-1 (Sarosi scoring once). In the semi final, the Swedes were annihilated in a 5-1 rout (one goal by Sarosi) but in the final, they met an Italy side that proved too strong for them that day, but again Sarosi scored a goal in the 2-4 defeat, having thus managed to score in every World Cup game he played in (6 goals in 5 games).

    Sarosi went on to play for Ferencvaros during the war, but left his country at the beginning of the communist era. He moved to the United States for a while but then decided to become a manager in Italy with no less a club than the mighty Juventus who he led to a Scudetto in 1952. Italy was to become his new home, changing his Christian name from György to Giorgio as well as becoming Italian citizen. He eventually died in Genoa in 1993 at the age of 80.

    This profile was written with the help of this website.

    League Statistics per Season
    Season - Club - Games – Goals
    1930/31 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................07 / 02
    1931/32 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................19 / 04
    1932/33 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................21 / 08
    1933/34 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................22 / 24
    1934/35 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................21 / 22
    1935/36 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................20 / 37
    1936/37 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................19 / 29
    1937/38 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................19 / 29
    1938/39 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................19 / 26
    1939/40 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................23 / 23
    1940/41 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................22 / 30
    1941/42 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................18 / 19
    1942/43 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................15 / 06
    1943/44 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................27 / 11
    1944/45 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................15 / 14
    1945.... Ferencvaros Budapest ....................18 / 16
    1945/46 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................32 / 31
    1946/47 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................29 / 15
    1947/48 Ferencvaros Budapest ....................19 / 05
     
  11. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    That is correct about Germany in '62 not being as strong a team as in '70. That 1970 team was one of Germany's best ever teams. 1962 was still a very solid team, including Uwe Seeler, Helmut Haller, Willi Schulz, Karl-Heinz Schnellinger, Horst Szymaniak, Hans Schäfer and Albert Brülls (4 of these playing in Serie A during the 1960s). Germany duefully won their match against hosts Chile. Here are the highlights:

    [ame=www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2SAKU001s]Chile 0-2 Germany 1962 World Cup[/ame]
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It depends on whether you go with birthplace or team first played for but I have a feeling if the latter, which i would choose (otherwise should John Barnes be with Jamaica - unless you say that's different because he always played for England), Ladislao Kubala would be with Czechoslovakia and be a star of that team along with Nedved, Masopust and others. The Hungarians would still have a great team though. Josef Bican despite being a Czech hero would play for Austria and Di Stefano would be Argentinian which is interesting since he may have been considered at his peak in Spain. Also, as I was double checking he played for Argentina before Colombia on Wikipedia I noticed that Pele has apparently said in September 2009 that Di Stefano was the best player ever - any thoughts on this (more the comment rather than if true or not)?
     
  13. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    We don't know whether Di Stefano's peak was in Spain. He could have been a better player while he was in Colombia. No many people outside of Colombia saw him playing there.

    Nevertheless, Argentina with Di Stefano, Maradona and Sivori on attack will be awesome. Does this lineup make sense?

    --------------Fillol---------
    Zanettii---?------Passarella----Marzolini
    -------Monti------Redondo----
    Di Stefano---Maradona----Sivori
    --------Batistuta

    Ayala or Ruggeri as the other CB. Moreno or Messi as the subs.
     
  14. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There are lots of choices, but I love that lineup. The question mark at CB could also be Roberto Perfumo.
     
  15. braine

    braine Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Belgium
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    We have to go for the first NT played for ,otherwise you will have ridicolous cases like John Barnes.
    Eusebio for Mozambique,Klose for Poland,Seedorf for Suriname,Desailly for Ghana,Gentile for Lybia and so and on...
    It means also Kubala has to play for Czechoslovakia instead of Hungary,coz eventough he was born and raised in Hungary he played first for that NT.
    Lucky Czechs...;)
     
  16. braine

    braine Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Belgium
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Frankly I forgot about them,I think how further you go back in the years and history how easilier you'll forgot the good players.
    But Dr.Sarosi you sure can't ignore since he was one of the best in the world at that era.
    So minus Kubala but + Sarosi & Zsengeller for Hungary.:p
     
  17. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I was about to start another topic on this, but I will let this thread to slow down first.
     
  18. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Ferenc Puskas was an ethnic German (Franz Purczel) whose family name was Hungarized in the late-1930s by Horthy regime. Kinda makes up for the loss of Kubala.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think Kubala's Dad was from Slovakia anyway but then again Bican had Czech heritage didnt't he? Definately it should be Kubala for Czechoslovakia, Bican for Austria and of course Puskas for Hungary as per the first country to play for rules. Interesting about Puskas's German ethnicity though - they probably gain more players than lose this way for example Klose (wouldn't be in all-time squad though). Littbarski sounds Polish too and for me he would be in the mix for the All-time selection.
    Caniggia at his best would surely be a candidate for the Argentina team and in the lineup Excape Goat and Argentina Fan discussed wouldn't he provide better width than Sivori? Also is Monti a defensive midfielder or does he bring more than that because with Redondo in there (who admitedly is very skilful too) you could afford a more creative option perhaps?
     
  20. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Since I did Argentina, I will do several of the top teams.

    Brazil
    -----------Gilmar or Taffarel (or even Julio Cesar)
    Djalma Santos----Domingos Da Guia---?----- Nilton Santos
    ----------Dunga-----???-----
    Garrincha----------Rivellino
    ----------Zico----------
    Ronaldo-------------Pele

    I don't know about the CB. There are too many. I am lending on Falcao or Didi as the other CM. While Brazil is best in football, i am not sure if this team can actually win it.

    Italy
    --------Zoff------
    Gentile---Baresi--Scirea---Facchetti/Maldini
    ------Rivera------DMF-------

    Baggio--------------------Conti
    ----Meazza------Riva

    Italy lacks a good ball-winner. Gattuso might be the answer, but he is out of depth in this WC Finals. And I am not sure if Scirea and Baresi will work. My team is more liked an all-star team than a realistic square.

    Germany??? Gregoriak, please go ahead.
     
  21. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I am planning to start a thread on ethnic World Cup. That was on my mind. So Littibarski, Puskas, or Bican can 'switch" sides in that WC Finals.

    As for Argentina, I do not think they need another creative midfielder when they had Sivori, Di Stefano and Maradona on the lineup. Redondo will be the deep lying midfielder while Monti plays the defensive role. Sivori is much better than Caniggia. I am not even sure if Caniggia can make this team. Messi, Kempes and Moreno are ahead of him.




     
  22. braine

    braine Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Belgium
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Im sure they'll have a big chance to win it,since you let play Brasil with 12 players instead of 11 :D

    Without kidding you put up a decent team here.
    Julio Cesar would be an option for the CB and Gerson for the CM instead of Dunga...
     
  23. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    Ohhhs.... :)

    They might need Dunga's defensive ability. I am not sure if Gerson can be the lone DMF in the modern game, especially with two attacking wingbacks.

    -------Dunga--Falcao-----
    Garrincha---Pele-----Zico
    ----------Ronaldo------

    Does this team look too much liked an All-star team? I should drop Zico and start Rivelino again instead.
     
  24. braine

    braine Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Belgium
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Maybe you could be right Excape Goat,since a place only 1 CM,Dunga is THE man,not the fastest player on earth but an excellent organiser and tactically a mastermind.


    this is my Brasil XI

    ----------- -----------Taffarel
    Djalma Santos----Domingos Da Guia---Julio Cesar-- Nilton Santos
    ----------Dunga---------
    Garrincha-----------------------------Pele
    ---------------------Zico----------
    ---------Ronaldo-----Romario

    Since my team is so offensive ,the wingbacks has to play more defensively,and pick up the loose balls from Garrincha and co.
    I put Pele at the left ,he's much faster as Zico and can go in or outwards the defenders...
    Zico is also the ideal playmaker with his brilliant passes...
    At right Garrincha ,no comment needed.
    Infront the dreamcopple Ro-Ro,who understand eachother very well at the pitch and are pure goalgetters.

    Can it be better than this ?
     
  25. andykeikei

    andykeikei New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    My All Time Brazil:

    ----------------------------Gilmar

    D. Santos----Domingos Da Guia----Luis Pereira----N. Santos

    ------------------Didi----------------Dunga/Zito/Gerson/Falcao

    ------------------------------------------------Rivelino
    Garrincha
    ------------------Pele------------Ronaldo

    IMO Didi was the best player in World Cup 1958 and he has to be included.
     

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