All I remember was that 3-0 spanking by one of the worst-coached US teams ever(Steve Sampson) in Canada back in 1997. I agree. Canada won the gold Cup back in 2000 and sank back into obscurity afterwards. Only Honduras has a serious claim to the 3rd spot, although that might change when the qualifiers start.
You may have a point about Guatemala's depth, but to be quite honest, my understanding of the term "number 3 in Concacaf" deals with results. If Guat had gone to the World Cup, nicked a point against Sweden and made a good showing of themseves as TnT had, and then followed that up later by advancing for the first time since 96 in the Gold Cup, losing to eventual winners the US, I'd have said that on this overall cycle, they were more than even contenders for the "current number 3" spot. As far as Canada goes, the same principle applies. All the posturing yu make about infrastructure notwithstanding, this says nothing about Canada's current status as far as football is concerned. It just suggests that they have a strong potential to occupy the 3rd place position in the near to mid term future. Yes, they had a great gold cup, and if they follow it up with a hexagonal performance/wc qualification, other decent gold cup in 2009, they'll be would number 3 definitely, or at least very few would begrudge them. Until such time, the belief that Canada is the number 3 team in Concacaf will remain as I stated, a figment of the Maple Leafs' imagination.
You "finished 3rd" in the gold cup of 2002. In 2003 you "finished 3rd" out of a group of 3 Granted, Canada was unfortunate to be the only team with 3 points not to advance (goal difference), but one can argue that was the payback for the bit of luck they got on the coinflip/lots that allowed them to advance in 2000 AND 2002
have to totally disagree. Costa Rica were crap at the WC and they were crap at this Gold Cup as well. Teams above C Rica in my opinion 1. Canada 2. Honduras 3. Panama
They went to the World Cup(and have gone there 3 times), thats the point. Canada went once, lost all 3 games and didn´t score a single goal. They did good in the 2000 Gold Cup and were crap afterwards. Panama and Honduras(Honduras in particular) may have a better argument, but Panama still has never proven anything other than finishing second at the last Gold Cup.
Panama's making the Hex last time makes them a player for the next WC cycle to qualify, never before would they be even remotely considered. Who knows if they will make the Hex Honduras, eh, well, they win a huge game, then lose to someone horrible, like in the 2001 Hex...what a mess that was. They still do it....dominating in the round 1 of gold cup and then losing to Guadeloupe, who isnt a horrible team, but a team Honduras should beat. But they will be in the Hex for sure, but will they qualify? CR didnt look very good to me...I'll be interested to see what team they get together in the semis next summer...unless they get a terrible draw, they are a shoo-in for the Hex T&T- who knows, they always perform well in the semis of qualifying, but thats usually due to being in a group with ST Vincent, Barbados, and whatever else Jack Warner can conjure up to get them through. if they get a group of central american teams for the semis- kiss them good bye. Canada- looks like their players are starting to play with confidence and ability, and I'd be shocked if they didnt make the Hex. Guatemala- After Ruiz, what do they have? A team that bunkers a lot and counterattacks can steal enough points to qualify but can they improve the D enough to make their style successful. When all is said in done, I think right now Canada is #3, followed by CR, Guatemala and Honduras in that order....and thats the 4 I like to make the Hex, of course, Jack Warner has something to say about that
Canada always goes into obscurity . Panama is doing quite well but I think CR still 3rd I'm sure they will go to wc 2010.
Canada finally got rid of their old good ol boys president. This time they will not disappear in into obscurity. By 2014 they will be hard to beat at home by anyone including US and Mex.
Hey man, give it a rest. In 98, we got both the US and Costa Rica + Guatemala. In 2002 we got Mexico and Canada, who i remind you,were the newly crowned gold cup champions and had beat us in the semifinal to get there, + Panama. If by "usually", you mean once since the invention of the current format, yeah...right! If you want to compare apples with apples, Jamaica got St. Vincent in 98 and 02, and El Salvador in both 02, and 06. Panama BEFORE the semis for 06 was an absolute nobody in footballing terms, people just act like Jamaica's group was tough because the canaleros decided to rewrite the script
Yeah I got to agree. The last semi was a softy for T&T, but the previous ones were not at the time of the draw. Just to further expand on the point, until 2002 qualifying, T & T had never beaten Canada. While hindsight shows we caked out - Canada was pretty please with our group at the time of the draw. Will also note that T&T did manage to finish ahead of Guatemala and Panama in the Hex.
as was already described, Canada's gold cup win didnt do much to push them forward for the WCQ, but in 2000 T&T had a better team anyway than Canada, a much better team. maybe I overstated the T&T cause....so I apologize for that, but my idea remains the same about them...i dont think Panama will displace them from the Hex, but possibly a new Canada will along with other...of course it all depends on the draw....anything less than what T&T got in 2004 and personally i think they wont make the Hex....even if they resolve their multiple pay disputes
One thing, history counts for something, Honduras has a pretty good history, did decent in their only WC performance, have a history of making the hex, and have been sending good players to Europe for a long time. The only countries I really see rewriting history are the USA and Panama, because both have(and have always had) excellent athletes, and both are finally taking the game seriously. Canada is a wild card because they´ve always sank back into obscurity. But they were impressive this Gold Cup, and they finally have reall professional teams, and things might change. As far as Trinidad, they did deserve to be in the WC last year, but ultra-currupt Jack Warner left a bad stain on what was a good team with whatever he did behind the scenes.
Thank you Jack Warner for all the gifts bestowed on us; of easy qualification groups and buying off teams like Mexico so that littly lowly Trinidad could some day qualify for the world cup. Without you there would have been no way we could have possibly qualified based on natural talent, after all who would believe a country of 1.3 million people could ever produce a team worthy of the world stage. And lastly, thank you so much for removing the cancerous players who had the gall to ask for monies owed to them, money that you (gasp) would have to pay out of your won pocket. Thanks to you Jack Warner we play St Kitts and Nevis and SVG, everytime in the semis esuring easy qualification, Thanks to you we beat Mexico in the final game of the hex, a game against a team and a reffree who were clearly bought off, thanks to you and your generosity 35000 people were able to view the final qualification game against the US in 89 in a stadium that holds 25000, thanks to you I will never have to see players like Carlos Edwards, Kelvin Jack, Kenwyne Jones, Chris Birchall or Cornell Glenn (to name a few) in a Trinidad uniform. You are my hero, Amen.
ah get over yourself , wawawa, most of central america play with a domestic side , we don't complain much , improve your league , believe in it more , instead of relying on the hope ole yorke recommends players, and clubs owner sign trini as a favor, yes there is athletic talent very raw there but its improved abroad, and if it wasn't for yorke and his connections , most of these players would get overlooked.
Antonio and Jay, it was pretty big of you both to make the remarks you did. Guatefc, I'm a bit disappointed in you, you had started getting us accustomed to a lot more sportsmanship than this. If most of Central America play with a domestic side, you know damn well the reasons for that. The same reason why you barely find any trinis in the non english leagues is the same reason you find virtually no central americans in the non spanish leagues. Its also not our fault if the few that ply their trade abroad are more willing to go in the (for now) substandard (in relation to the top European leagues) MLS. I'm not sure where you get your information from, but Dwight Yorke has had very little to do with whatever Trinis get into the English leagues (unless by connections, you mean the automatic association clubs make with him when they hear Trinidadian nationality). Stern John crossed the Atlantic thanks to him ripping up the MLS, an option that Ruiz still hasn't had (or decided to accept). Lawrence, Edwards, Kelvin Jack etc getting into England had more to do with their respective agents and coaches (Berry and Fenwick) than anything that Dwight Yorke could have said on their behalf. The only player who has benefitted from a 'recommendation' of any sort was Denzil Theobald recommended by Russell Latapy at Falkirk, and the fact that the guy just signed in Hungary goes to show that our overseas pros aren't all "recommended". Don't be bitter if your players aren't good enough to play abroad. In 1989, when we were one point away from qualifying (sounds familiar?) we had an all local squad; that was almost 20 years ago. Where has "improving and believing in your league" got Guatemala, a country with 12 times the population of TNT? For the sake of sportsmanship, I won't answer my own question.
This is probably not even worth mentioning, but its likely that neither T&T nor the USA would have been in a position to qualify had Mexico not been involved in some U-23 shenanigans.....and I guess for that, we can thank Mexico for opening a new era of soccer in the USA, because I dont think WC 94' is held in USA without qualifying for 1990.
sigh.... you missed the whole point. and this: instead of relying on the hope ole yorke recommends players, and clubs owner sign trini as a favor is just silly.
T&T's regular squad, their first team have many competent players playing abroad....i think 2 or 3 in MLS and some in the English Championship and Scottish Premier league, thus their qualification last summer, but other than Kenwyne Jones and Cornell Glen, they are all well over 30 or will be by 2009. It is uncertain how well they can do in qualifying which is a grind. They can use some of the players we saw in the Gold Cup, but we all know they arent as good as the older players...but will the older players hold up through qualifying?
The young holdovers from the WC side will be 7 MD Christopher Birchall 05 May 1984 Coventry (ENG) 12 FW Collin Samuel 27 Aug 1981 Toronto FC (MLS) 13 FW Cornell Glen 21 Oct 1980 W Connection (TNT) 15 FW Kenwyne Jones 05 Oct 1984 Southampton (ENG) 18 MD Densill Theobald 27 Jun 1982 Ujpest (HUN) 23 MD Anthony Wolfe 23 Dec 1983 Atlanta Silverbacks (USA) These 2 will be the senior players of the squad, most likely Edwards will be captain 11 MD Carlos Edwards 24 Oct 1978 Luton Town (ENG) 20 FW Jason Scotland 18 Feb 1979 Swansea (ENG) For Goalkeepers it is not uncommon to play at an older age, so one of these 2 will be there (Jack is younger but injury plagued) 21 GK Kelvin Jack 29 Apr 1976 Dundee FC (SCO) 22 GK Clayton Ince 13 Jul 1972 Coventry City (ENG) With the exception of Wolfe and Ince, all of these guys should be shoo ins on the squad by the time 2009 comes around. Among the younger foreign based playersnot in the WC Squad Scott Sealy 04 Jun 1981 KC Wizards (USA) Darryl Roberts 26 Sep 1983 Sparta Rotterdam (NED) Ricky Shakes 25 Jan 1985 Swindon Town (ENG) Josh Johnson 16th Apr 1981 Wrexham (ENG) Silvio Spann 21st Aug 1981 Osei Telesford 30 Nov 1983 Chicago Fire (USA) I think the older guys will help blood them into the qualifiers, and a few may just survive. Look at Yorke and Latapy's longevity, why can't Stern John, for example imitate them? Of course all of this is dependent on the federation actually getting their act together
You said it, not me. Costa Rica has sent dozens of players to Europe and elsewhere, one of them won the Spanish Cup title with Barcelona. Back in 1989, the squad that barely beat Trinidad was another amateur side made up primarily of college players USA. I've always said the entire Carribean's biggest problem is their refusal to turn their leagues pro. Why is it even teams in Nicaragua can pay their players decent salaries and clubs in much richer countries like Belize, Trinidad, Jamaica, etc. can't, it doesn't make any sense. Jamaica had a decent team back in the 1998 qualifying, but weren't able to come on strong until the Premeirship and Champions League players got on board.
Anonio, I thought it would be obvious to everyone that I wasn't including Costa Rica in the group of countries that cdon't/can't send players abroad. Guatefc said "most of central america play with a domestic league. I automatically assumed by most of Central America, he meant everyone except Costa Rica (who strangely enough, usually end up leaving at least 3/4 of their foreign players off their WC squads As far as our 'refusal' to go pro goes, TNT has been pro since 1999, can't say anything about Jamaica. I think our attitude to this question has a lot to do with the fact that, up until 1994, football played (and in some cases still play) second fiddle to other sports, particularly cricket, in all of the english speaking island territories, but also to athletics (jamaica), and even boxing or baseball in some others. When you look at the population pool, that's a pretty small market pie to share up among competing interests.