Defense is our weakest point and we have an influx of strong, durable midfielders who are generally better playing back than going forward. So BS, Why don't we try the 3-5-2?
I have always liked the 3-5-2 formation. Italians are bringing it back into style somewhat. The thing is they have fantastic individual and groups defenders. Some of the best in the world. We don't have a center back that I would trust like Kompany or the likes. So until then....we fill that roll with 2 players = 1 world class center back. We honestly play more of a 2-3-4-1 or something. Especially when we have the ball. The 2 center backs are in the back.. The wing backs are wide and up usually parallel with MB or Edu. The rest of the midfield is there and then the forward up top. All-in-all. I think if we start really struggling with offense in qualifying we can look at radical changes but I just don't see it happening. Nor do we have the CB personal to pull off a 3-5-2. He seems pretty set on the Arsenal-type wing backs. So in essence we have 2 defenders and 2 outside midfielders who are good at defending. Can't do the wing back thing with 3-5-2 so it would be a philosophy change. I think one massive philosophy change per cycle please =)
Just for fun... ------------------Jones---------------- --------Dolo-------------Lichaj-------- Chandler-------Edu------------Johnson ---------Bradley-----Torres------------ -------------Dempsey------------------- ---------Gomez/Jozy/Boyd-------------
Honestly, our CB play has been so shaky our best option could actually be to throw 3 back there and clog up as much space as possible. Our CB's are at their best when the balls played through the air. What they're not good at is defending when there's a lot of open space. With 3 CB's I'd be comfortable putting Ream back there. -----------------Altidore-----------Donovan --------------------------Dempsey ------------------Jones------------Bradley Johnson-----------------------------------------Cherundolo ----------Bocanegra-----Goodson-----Oneywu ---------------------------Howard
Dempsey---------Jozy---------Gomez ------------------Donovan---------------- ----Johnson------Jones------Bradley--- --------Boca---Goodson---Cameron--- Johnson and Bradley tuck into the wings when defending for a 5 man back line.
If Chandler decides to play for the US I think you could do it. and in a way we took that shape against Scotland When FJ and Dolo pushed up and Edu sat home as almost a 3rd cb. I think if Chandler were playinf he would push up high on the right side like Fj is on the left, Dolo does it a bit, but I think Chandler would do it even more
3-5-2 asks a lot of your centerbacks. Given the crop of talent we currently have I would prefer asking as few questions as possible.
Not as bad on our centerbacks as it is on the wing backs. Those are the key. If we had BOTH Johnson and Chandler, I'd be tempted to say let's go for it. But Cherundolo is getting a little old to hold down heavy defensive responsibility AND be constantly relied on for width in the opponent's half without a dedicated partner, and Lichaj is more of a tenacious defending fullback than a fly-up-the-field winger style fullback that you need in this system. Further, at this point I trust Edu or Beckerman as our 3rd defender in midfield more than I'd trust any 3rd CB in our pool you could name.
Against Scotland, given the way Edu was playing, weren't we pretty close to being in a 3-5-2? Just think of it as a 5-3-2 with fullbacks just as aggressive as Klinsy wants in our 4-4-2.
Suggestions for a 3-5-2 have been around BigSoccer for many years. Every time we get frustrated with our weak backs and see our depth in midfield, it seems to make some sense. But you have to have at least a couple very mobile, fast CB's and you have to have wingers with iron lungs. And you must have at least 3 starting-quality wingers for those 2 physically demanding roles, because some form of rotation is absolutely necessary. Moreover, it's such a unique system, that you really need some players who play it regularly at their clubs. Otherwise the in-game communication will break down, and tired players will have the wrong instincts to fall back on. So, I'm not in favor of playing the actual US Nat's in a 3-5-2. But on a PC game it might work very well. Nevertheless, if you put a gun to my head and said I had to lineup the US in a 3-5-2, here is how I'd prefer to do it: Starting XI ----------------Altidore----Dempsey---------- ----------------------Donovan------------------ Johnson---------Bradley-----------Chandler --------------------Williams------------------- --------Ream------Jones------Cameron----- -------------------Howard--------------------- Reserve XI --------------Cooper-----Gomez------------- ---------------------Adu----------------------- Castillo----------Torres-----------------Gatt --------------------Edu----------------------- ------Boca------Oneywu-----Lichaj------- ------------------Guzan----------------------- Note: Healthy Holden would push out Torres, or maybe Edu. Healthy Gonzo might push Onyewu at some point. George John, Besler, or even Wynne might be worth a look in the back. Boyd or Wooten may push Cooper, but not this year for me. I'm not at all sure the reserve wingers are starting quality. Shea and Beasley are options on the left.
At Dolo's age, it might be asking a lot for him to play wingback. Ditto for Donovan. I wouldn't want the 3-5-2 as our base, but I think it might be a nice tactical option. I think we have 3 guys fullbacks who could pull it off: Johnson, Lichaj, and Chandler. If Castillo continues to develop, he'd could as well. And I think Beasley (if he stays on form) and Shea (if he develops) could as well. And I know Gatt has played some RB for Molde. And that's assuming none of the MLS guys who are young and fast develop (Williams, Balchan, etc).
--------Herc---Jozy-------- -----------Dempsey--------- -Johnson---Mike---Lichaj- -------------Jones----------- ----Boca---Clay---Cam---- ------------Timmy--------- If we're going to run a 3-5-2 this is my preferred line-up. Back line is speedy enough and good enough with the ball at their feet to succeed. Wingbacks would be asked to do a lot but both of those guys are really good going forward...and I believe this is our best XI at the moment when playing this formation (yes, I left Donovan off, as I can't think of a position where he would succeed as well as who I have in each one of them.) You could make the case for playing him where Dempsey is and sliding Dempsey into one of Herc's or Jozy's spots, but I prefer to bring him off the bench ala the Gold Cup as he gets a little older.
it could either be brilliant or it could be a disaster. ----------------Donovan---Dempsey-------------------- --------------Bradley------------Holden----------------- Johnson---------------Jones---------------------Chandler ------------Ream------------------Cameron------------- ----------------------Bocanegra-------------------------- -----------------------Howard---------------------------- bench: Guzan, Gonzalez, Lichaj, Williams, Torres, Gomez, Altidore Player Roles: -Bocanegra would play the role of a sweeper. that may play to his strength given that he has a ton of experience, he's getting older, and he would provide that bite to our backline that Ream and Cameron do not possess as much. -Ream and Cameron would be pinched in fullbacks or more mobile centerbacks that would press the line and would have to keep good possession/distribution of the ball out of the back. that plays to their strengths. -Johnson and Chandler would have to dominate the flanks. that plays to their strengths as they are two of the fastest emerging wingbacks in the world. -You would have to have one of the midfielders screening the backline and the other two would have to be tireless box-to-box mids. I believe this would play to all of Holden, Bradley, and Jones' strengths but is pretty much the same as our current formation. -Donovan and Dempsey would have to lead the attack as they are our two best attackers. In short, this formation is pretty much the same as our current 4-3-3 but you are taking off the center forward and adding a sweeper so that you can press the rest of the guys further up the field.
The 3-5-2 is simply a modified 3-2-3-2 and I prefer a four tier formation. Reason for that is that the open rungs are narrower and the field gets much better offensive and defensive coverage. It also shortens the passes and the triangles are tighter therefore easier for pass completions. Width and narrowness is easier to control and more forgiving. In my opinion Spain deploys such a spread almost continually and with overruns and player shifts makes coverage of them almost impossible consistently .
What the hey. -------------Donovan------------------- -------------------Dempsey------------- ---------Bradley--------Holden--------- Johnson--------Jones--------Chandler ---------Ream---------Cameron------- --------------- Gonzalez---------------- ----------------Howard-----------------
Of all the line ups posted this makes the most sense. However if holden ever gets back to form then Williams and Bradley switch and Holden starts where you have Bradley
Hate to bring this up again but with our current lineup I keep thinking a 3-5-2 is the way to go. -------Jozy----Demps---------- ----------Donovan------------- -------Bradley---Jones--------- Johnson------------Dolo/Chandler ----Brooks--Cameron-Besler------ I know we'll never play it but it would be fun to see how we would perform. If we needed to go back to a tradition 4 man backline for offensive purposes we could take out the RB have Cameron slide over to RB and add another MF/FW If a defensive sub is needed you can take out LW/RW and move the other winger down (Brooks to LB and Cameron to RB depending on the sub).
While I thought the 3-5-2 might be a good formation for us for a while I don't anymore. We're 12-1-1 in our last 14 games. The machine is running well, why tinker with the gears? What are some of the US team's strengths? For one our box to box midfielders are quality. Another is the quality attackers we have in Donovan and Dempsey. In the 3-5-2 Bradley would have to be more of a Holding midfielder to accommodate for Donovan or Duece dropping into the hole. Further more now that we have a number of capable options on the right side of midfield (Zusi, Corona, Bedoya, maybe even Gatt) keeping one attacking midfielder who can stay wide I think gives us more versatility. If we are going to use 3 in the back something like this would probably be best. --------------------- Duece ------------ Jozy --------------------------- ----------------------------------- Donovan ----------------------------- --- Johnson --------- Bradley ------------ Jones -------- Chandler -- ------------------ Besler ------ Cameron ------- Parkhurst ------------ But is that as strong as either of these? 4-4-2 --------------------------------------- Jozy --------------------------------- ---------------------Donovan/Duece--------------------------------------- ---Donovan/Duece ------------------------------------------ Zusi -------- ----------------------------------------- Bradley ---------------------------- ------------------------------ Jones ------------------------------------------ ------- Johnson -------- Besler ------ Cameron -------- Chandler ------- or 4-3-3 ---------------------------------- Jozy ----------------------------------------- ------- Donovan ----------------------------------------------- Zusi --------- ----------------------------- Duece --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- Bradley ----------------------------- --------------------------------- Cameron -------------------------------------- ------- Johnson ------- Goodson ------ Besler ---------- Chandler ---------
Our 3-5-2 is basically the same. The issue we have with the 4-4-2 is that Duece and LD aren't in their preferred positions. And the issue with the 4-3-3- is that Jones isn't sitting.
What is Duece's and LD's preferred position? To me they both like to float freely behind and around the striker/strikers. Maybe they could do something like that in a 3-4-2-1, but then we run into problems on our wings and shoehorning a guy like Bradley into a buoy role. I could be wrong but it seems like our attack on the wings have helped to create a lot of goals in our recent run of form. We have been able to combine well and leave our guys with one v ones. By switching to wingbacks this negates that part of our game. I like when we create 2 on 1 with our combination play along the wing. I wouldn't be opposed to trying a Beilsa stye 3-3-1-3 with something like.. -------------------------- Jozy ---------------------------- --- Johnson ------------------------------- Donovan ---- ------------------------- Duece ---------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Bradley ------------------- Jones ------------- ----------------------- Cameron -------------------------- ----------- Besler --- Goodson --- Parkhurst ---------- It works without true wingbacks but we could still combine on the flanks to create chances. Jones and Bradley can pinch in or go outside. I think they're versatile enough to do it but it wouldn't play to their greatest strengths by any means. I'm still left wondering if it ain't broke why fix it?
Sorry but I saw enough of the 3-man-backline in 1998, it was a disaster and it would be a disaster again.
Quoted for truth. Our CB's already are having their hands full with a 4 man backline. 3-5-2 is not going to cut it, although I can see using it in a situation like we had against Mexico in 2002, and we have both outside backs injured.
I tend to think that much of the time when people talk about 352 around here they are more referring to a 532 where the outside backs push up a lot. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it is a pretty defensive posture in reality. I feel like people kind of want the best of both worlds and just pretend the outside guys will be fully functional as backs and as attackers. Reality is, you lose one side of that equation to at least some degree. You can't just run guys out there and basically tell them to cover two positions and expect that to work. Still, I used to think this sounded like a good idea mostly because the US had been churning out far more center backs and guys that can run all day than anything else, making it seem to be a good fit to fill out those five back positions. But, looking at the current bunch where center back is probably one of our weakest spots on the field, it looks like a pretty bad idea these days.
Those outside flanker positions are super demanding, and the only players in the pool who I think are up to the task of running corner to corner all game are F.Johnson, Chandler, and Beasley. But those three are already our leading wing-back options in a 4-4-2, so if those are also our leading starters for the wing roles in the 3-5-2, then ... ... playing a 3-5-2 really means sitting a good midfielder in exchange for adding a 3d mediocre CB. That's not an idea I'm too keen on.