Keeper of the Week --Mastroeni---Pope----Bocanegra--- --Sanneh-----Reyna-------Convey --------Landon------DaMarcus -----TT-----------McBrizzles
What about: -------Keeper --Sanneh--Pope--Boca --Convey--Reyna---JOB -----LD--------DMB -----TT----McBride
The 3-5-2 setup depeds on coverage of the wing defense spots by a couple of players so differeent players can attack.A back three player can attack if a d-mid or wing back covers the spot.Remember Juergen Kohler(!?) attacking in the 98 WC against us. We will see the 3-5-2 against top sides in big games.(portugal,Mexico in J/K) It is Il Bruce's wild card,we won't see it against Grenada...
Guys, I don't know... I like the 3-5-2, but I don't think we've seen the last of the 4-4-2 (box midfield)...or the Convey-at-left-back bit, either...
Best post in the thread so far. I would also like to add that the formation we use -- or better, our "personnel deployment" -- is to some degree, sometimes a significant degree, dependent on our opponent. Not only do we, as Mr. Martin says here, have to have the horses on any given day, but we have to have horses that match up with our opponents. I don't think, for example, that you're ever going to see us play Mexico in a 4 back set. That invites them to dominate in the midfield in ways that are detrimental to us. Same goes for Germany. Yet other teams, who might throw a 3-forward set at us, or play 4 in the back, for us to rigidly stick to a 3-5-2 would be a mistake. We might get ourselves into serious matchup problems at key areas on the field. So the progression of thought should always be: What's the optimal player deployement for THIS opponent? Who goes where? This way you never limit yourself, never fall into rigid habits, and are consequently more difficult to prepare for yourself.
I'm not sure about that. I'll predict you'll see the US in a 4 back set the next time we play them in Mexico City. As Bluecat stated, Arena will continue to use the 4 player backline with the box midfield as he did regularly in the last cycle of qualifiers. Bruce is on record as stating doesn't feel completely comfortable with three defenders.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am), but I thought the last Mexico match was the first time Bruce used a box midfield... Destroyer -------------- Destroyer l l l l l l Attacker --------------- Attacker As opposed to the diamond midfield we've traditionally gone with... Destroying Mid / \ Wing Wing \ / Attacking/Holding Mid My point (beside the one on top of my head) is that I think Bruce will mix it up with the formations in order to get the right mix of players on the field, not only to match the opponent (tactical), but the situation we might find ourselves in during WCQ (strategic)... Hope I didn't tread on anyone's toes...
No, IIRC we played the box at Honduras and against Costa Rica in KC. Cherundolo played right back and Sanneh was one of the destroyers.
For most of the Hex, we played a diamond in which one wing played defensive and the other offensive. After using a normal wing pairing (Stewart/Jones) against Mexico, Bruce played Sanneh/Stewart the next five matches (@HON, CR, @JAM, T&T, @MEX), with Earnie pinching in to the center and 'Dolo playing the RB spot. Bruce moved away from the 4-4-2 for the next two qualifiers, but for the home Jamaica tilt, it was Stewart/JOB with the same scheme, only on the left side. This then became the preferred option heading into the World Cup, but injuries changed that. If that is a box, then we've been playing it for several years now, but based out of a nominal diamond (and that would have had Zavagnin playing the lock role in the recent Mexico match, which is what I thought it was anyhow).
I think Bruce's wildcard is actually Landon Donovan. The Mexico game proved that, when possible, if Bruce can put a formation and lineup on the field that will open up space for LD, he'll find a way to do it. As Karl reinforced earlier, ultimately it will depend on the lineup/tactics of our opponent each game. 3-5-2: -------------------Howard---------------------- ------Mastro--------Pope-------------Boca----- -------------Reyna--------JOB----------------- Dolo-----------------------------------------DMB -------------------Donovan---------------------- ------------Wolff----------Casey----------------- Box 4-4-2: -------------------Howard------------------------ Mastro---------Pope-----Boca--------------Convey -----------Reyna-----------JOB------------------- -------------LD------------DMB------------------- -----------Wolff------------Casey----------------- Or even better than the box: 4-5-1 -------------------Howard------------------------- Cherundolo-----Pope------Boca---------------Convey -----------Reyna-----------Mastro(JOB)------------ Adu--------------------------------------------DMB --------------------Donovan----------------------- --------------------Casey--------------------------
There are two things you can't say about Bruce (although many do): You can't say he doesn't look at/cap a lot of players and you can't say he is rigid with formations - even within a game. The "diamond" midfield has almost always been very fluid - esp. with Reyna/Stewart/Convey/Debease/LD on the field. These are all guys very comfortable moving around alot. This is partly due to our lack of exceptional touchline players, perhaps, but may also be one reason we haven't discoverd more decent wing players. Even our 3-5-2 slips pretty easily into a 4 when Dolo is RW, for instance. The best formations are those that adapt to real game situations.
I will disagree with Karl and argue that Mr. Martin only has part of the reason why 3-5-2 has not been favored. It is true that our central defensive depth is way up and that favors the use of a 3-5-2. However, there are two other factors. First, once again, right midfield. Three years ago, we had Stewart, Jones (for all of his weaknesses can go end line to end line and will create a lot more danger than Dolo) and a young and healthy Ben Olsen. That is the level of offense that Arena wants to see from the position, and is what is needed to compete on this level. Claudio Reyna was kind of an unexpected surprise in the last World Cup, but if JOB can't go, we struggle without Reyna centrally. Third, DeMarcus Beasley, as he recently noted, certainly can play left mid in a 3-5-2. But he wreaks alot more havoc when he is in a 4-4-2 without that defensive responsibility. I do think you are wrong. I think in some early WC qualifiers, Arena used Tony Sanneh in midfield. My view is that Sanneh did not play as a wing midfielder but as a dual "volante de contencion" as they put it in Spanish. Those games, in my view, involved a box midfield. I also don't think that you can describe our formation against Holland as a traditional wing midfield either.
Well, the factual ignorance of saying that Arena won't use a four-back set against Mexico was proven in Dallas - when the US went out and pummeled Mexico using... A four-back set. Makes you wonder if people watched the game. I agree with you, davide. Based on the success we had against Mexico in Dallas, I envision Arena using an "Arsenalesque" formation quite a bit during qualification. That means we'll have 4 defenders against a huge majority of our opponents, and I would not be surprised at all to see Arena trot out 4 defenders against Mexico the very next time we play them. I agree with Martin Fischer that until somebody stands up and says - "I'm the right midfielder you are looking for, Bruce." - pulling off a traditional 3-5-2 with wingbacks is difficult. While Dolo can be effective going forward from a defensive back position, I question whether or not he has the skills to take on a midfield role on a full-time basis. He certainly lacks the experience. The last player to start in the right wingback roll for us was... Claudio Reyna. He played great and could be platooned there if the situation called for it, but I really don't expect him to be running from one third to the other in 2006. I am all about tactical flexibility, and in fact rightly argued prior to the World Cup that Arena would switch to a 3-man back line and/or a 5-man midfield if the situation called for it. Some of those who scoffed and mocked then would like to think the idea is their own now. Having said this, I think people should also keep in mind that in the last couple of friendlies - against Poland and then against Mexico - our outside backs have played pretty well, and in some cases excellently. Vanney wasn't bad against Poland, and Cherundolo played very well. Both Convey and Hejduk played superb games against Mexico and were a huge reason we dominated them in every aspect of the game. If our outside defenders keep up this level of play, I don't think there is as big of a push to go with 3 central-ish defenders as there were in times past. We'll see.
Actually, no. He was in central midfield against Germany. We lined up with McBride and Donovan up front, JOB, Reyna, and Pablo in the central midfield, Sanneh, Pope, and Berhalter as central defenders, Lewis as LWB...and Frankie Freakin' Hejduk at RWB. I write this not to nitpick, but to show that Steve Cherundolo has the attacking skill to pull off the position. If Frankie can do it, Stevie C. can.
How did that work out? OK, seriously, point taken. But I still don't think it is ideal, and I believe Arena is looking for better, which is why you see more 4 back sets. But in certain circumstances, this type of conservative 3 back set may make sense.
Some people admit mistakes. Some people accept that they can be wrong and revise their opinions based on the reality in front of them. Others dislocate their shoulders patting themselves on the back. Diversity makes the world go round.
Didn't Frankie also line-up wide right in the spring Mexico friendly. Another goaless affair, I think... hmm. Frankie + Wide Right = ... (actually, I don't know that we've had a lot of offense success with a 5 over the past couple of years - then again, I can only think of twice we've played it over the last couple of years...) Of course, the Nats have not exactly been playing in goalfests in any formation lately. I think we should call Twellman in for Hondo. Why should Earnie get to miss all the PKs? I think you'd have to call whatever we played against TnT and Jamica a box of some sort. Sanneh and Armas w/ Reyna and Stewart. Neither Reyna, or, for the most part Stewart are "wing" players (tho Stewart can play there, he moved a lot in these games) Sanneh is not a wing middie either. Against Hondo it was more of a diamond, with Mathis up front... But Bruce seems to prefer unbalanced midfield formations.
Martin Fischer and Nutmeg, excellent analysis as always. I agree the 4-4-2 is here to stay except for certain opponents due to their abilities and availability of players. Dolo cannot play at this level right mid. He is an excellent back, but the skill needed to paly this position and his lack of experience playing the position are big draw backs.
I still think that Donovan could end up playing on the right wing... IIRC, he had a great game playing there in the WC against Mexico. Also, he would OWN that position, as we are pretty weak there. I would only question his defensive responsibilities, but there is no reason that he couldn't get used to it. If Beasley can make such a difference on the left side, Landon should be able to do more on the right. Otherwise I would play Lewis on the left and Beasley on the right since he can't cross the ball anyway. Lewis could also play on the right... I think that in the last few games he has played for the USMNT he has been the best player. I would play him over DMB at this point simply because of his consistency in the final third. As far as the 3-5-2 vs. 4-4-2 goes, obviously it depends on who we are playing. I think that Arena has kind of "figured out" Mexico in the last few games. He clogs up the center of the field, and we work in from the wings. I can't even remember Borghetti touching the ball in the last game. We are simply able to outpace Mexico up the wings. Remember that when we played Poland in the WC that we tried the same thing, but their wingers were able to get a lot of crosses in while our guys chased them. We needed to slow that game down, but couldn't, as we went behind right away. I would expect to see some of both formations in qualifying, but the best situation would be if we were able to float between them at all times. That is what teams like Brazil can do... It hardly seems like they even have positions at times. Look how much Christiano Ronaldo moves around the field for Man U. He is a right winger, but pops up on the left half of the time.