3/4 Playoff Analysis: URU-GER - Archundia (MEX)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All pre-match discussion of the appointment, play-by-play descriptions and post-match analysis of the officiating performance for this match belong in this thread.

    Analysis threads in this forum are strictly moderated. Supporters of participating teams are welcome and encouraged to participate. But all posters should take non-analytical posts to the group or rivalries forums. Thank you.

    3/4 Playoff
    Referee: Benito Archundia (MEX)
    Assistant 1: Hector Vergara (CAN)
    Assistant 2: Marvin Torrentera (MEX)
    Fourth Official: Marco Rodriguez (MEX)
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Feel really bad for Vergara. He's already done this match and he had to have thought the Final was his.
     
  3. DudsBro

    DudsBro Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I have to agree. Both Archunida and Vergara are on the last World Cup..their last international tournament, and after having done so much, not to get the WC Final.
     
  4. Dpetzz

    Dpetzz New Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    Winnipeg
    Unlucky for Hector and Benito, FIFA went with a European referee for an all europe final. This will be Hector's second 3rd place game to go along with his semi final in 2006. This will also be his record tying (UAE's Bujsaim is the other but most of his matches were 4ths) 15 total match in world cup finals (14 ARs and 1 5th official). Still a pretty impressive resume considering he has done every FIFA competition at the men's level including the olympics. Very proud of him here in Winnipeg.
     
  5. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The fact that Archundia is Mexican and one of the finalists is Spain may have played a part in the selection.
     
  6. DudsBro

    DudsBro Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    From Vergara's Blog
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Incredibly classy from Vergara.
     
  8. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    Vergara came to National Camp a few years ago when we were in LA. He was part of the crew that worked a US Friendly at HDC with Navarro. After the match, the crew came to our meetings and spoke about the match. Someone asked Vergara about his training and we were all astonished at the dedication he put in. Not about the number of miles or frequency, but about the conditions in which he trained. I knew he was Canadian (obviously) but he doesn't live in one of those Canadian tropics like Toronto in the South or the coastal paradise of Vancouver where there are a few good months every year to train and the bad months can be at least tolerable.

    Instead, he lives in Winnipeg where winter temperatures and precipitation are not exactly conducive to heading out for a run. But, he said he still goes out and runs year round nearly every day. He described the conditions in which he has gone out and most of us were pretty amazed. I can say, after hearing about that training regimen, I was very impressed with his dedication. I guess all those frozen runs have certainly gotten him some results...though I would like to have seen him on a final because there is no question he has earned it as much as any referee ever has based on his body of work.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How was Aogo not sent off????
     
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh Archundia.
     
  11. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Yup, big miss there. Hopefully he didn't fall into the "this is a 3rd place match so it is more of an exhibition than anything" thought process.
     
  12. B Rock

    B Rock Member

    Oct 7, 2004
    Absolutley shocking. It wasn't a well disguised challenge either, the ball ended up a fair bit from where he made contact with the leg. I'm not sure how Archundia could have missed it.

    The only thought I had is that Archundia is going to be (apparently incredibly) lenient due to the fact that it's a 3rd place game.
     
  13. DudsBro

    DudsBro Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    hmmm, maybe FIFA will look like a genius by the end of this....
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's almost no other explanation--aside from it also being the 4th minute.
     
  15. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt it. He treated the USA/Honduras friendly a few months ago like a World Cup match, so I can't see him treating a World Cup match like a friendly.
     
  16. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Very rash challenge by Aogo around the 4' mark, straight leg, studs up into the calf of the opponent's weight-bearing leg. Yikes.




    No caution for the handling in the wall by Germany at the other end a couple minutes later?
     
  17. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    The handler was cautioned, but for me, it really looked like that whole call was from the AR (??). It took Archundia a few seconds to actually blow his whistle after the contact.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In order for that to be the case, you have to believe two things are true which we can't prove:

    1) Webb would have given a red there.

    2) FIFA would want a red for that, in the 4th minute, during a World Cup Final.

    I hope that both are true. But we can't be sure.
     
  19. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks. I see the card on GameCast; didn't see it shown live.
     
  20. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Well the AR got the goal right, that was good.
     
  21. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    I think this is the biggest reason. To send off a player in the 4th minute is one if the hardest things to do as a referee. That being said, when he sees the replay he will agree it should have been red.

    I believe Cacau was booked for it. The whistle was very late...I wonder if he got that call from his AR or 4th over the mic.
     
  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Surely if thats deliberate handling, it should be a yellow at least.
     
  23. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That tackle by Schweinsteiger in the 50th minute is a tactical foul that should get cautioned that almost never does.
     
  24. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Actually "deliberate handling" is only a foul; if it's not deliberate it shouldn't be a foul. Although apparently in this WC it has been a caution every time there is a handling offense.

    I think the reason for no red on that early foul was indeed the fact that it was the 4th minute. If that had happened in the 40th or 60th I think he probably would have sent him off.

    It's a pretty wide open match and they seem to be doing a pretty good job as a team. It's clear that Archundia trusts his assistants.
     
  25. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know the laws. He gave a FK when the ball hit the arm of the URU player when the German player would have been through on goal. If he felt it was deliberate handling, then surely it stopped a promising attack.
     

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