2nd dp?

Discussion in 'Seattle Sounders FC' started by gblfxt, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. Ted Lyons

    Ted Lyons Member

    Nov 13, 2007
    Tucson, Arizona
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, right. Donovan being "grandfathered in" again doesn't necessarily have any impact on DP slots for other teams. Yeah, other teams "should surely be able to do the same," but that's not how MLS works.
     
  2. wheezl

    wheezl Member

    Mar 25, 2009
    Livorno, Italy
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They just don't want him to go on a free transfer. Unless he screws up he isn't coming back.
     
  3. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't buy that at all. First of all, he wasn't free for two more seasons, so there is no incentive there. Second, I think Donovan is staying in MLS for personal reasons and this contract allows him to say that the money makes sense too.

    The only question now is will the league allow Seattle and other teams to have a player making $6.5 million and one making $2.5 million together on the same roster as it is allowing the Galaxy.

    If the answer to that question isn't "yes" then Don Garber better stay mighty clear of Qwest Field because I'll personally organize the beat down.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. WestSeattle

    WestSeattle New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    1. AEG and specifically Tim Leiweke have a large element of control in MLS. This is how and why the Galaxy were allowed to "cheat" the DP rules.

    2. The Galaxy will always be a "special" child in the MLS array of franchises because of item 1. We will see preferential treatment again, AEG holds too many purse strings to ignore that.

    3. I am sure we're all aware of this, but just to repeat: currently, any team can have up to two DPs, you just need to trade for the second one. Leiweke hinted another additional DP slot was coming (with teams being allowed to have up to three), but the league (and Garber) flatly denied this, it was one of several strange incidents the current CBA negotiations have produced.

    4. DPs are tricky, they cost you 400K against the cap. Having two designated players essentially eats up 32% of your salary cap for just two players. Up until this year, teams with DPs weren't very successful - and the fact the Galaxy was a big success this year, was a real eye opener. It means stars not only make lots of money (MLS made bank on Beckham's signing), they can also win games. I don't think additional DPs will really work though in the long term, unless they count less against the cap, or the cap is raised to accomodate them.

    5. I think the more interesting trend from this news is the fact MLS is more and more open to having their players spend part of their season overseas. I think we'll see this more and more. It might help us attract better players from Europe and it might help us keep at least some part of our very best domestic talent. I also think Donovan is nuts. He'll be *dog* tired for World Cup play if he doesn't get a sufficient rest in between Everton and Galaxy. So this is why I think he might play the "opener" in MLS but will probably find his way to an injury list for a while shortly afterward to give him rest.

    6. I can't remember a league with this much history, being in such a strange state of limbo as MLS is right now. The CBA could look like anything, it could just be a repeat of what they did before with a marginal cap increase. The very structure of the league seems up for debate. Our national team is rising to new levels of excitement and expectation, more players from the US are making noise overseas than ever before. It's a fascinating time to be a soccer fan. This is all unprecedented stuff.

    7. All of this, is why I say without apology, the CBA this off-season is one of the most important events in domestic soccer history. It can (and probably will) define the direction of domestic soccer at a very critical time and place.
     
  5. ArteEtLabore

    ArteEtLabore Member

    Dec 16, 2006
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Just a couple of comments on your post

    I would guess that this is a negotiation tactic on the part of the league. I've heard the two DP per team rumour too, but if the league were to make that announcement now, it would then be hard to turn around and say that they can't afford to pay players more than they currently do.


    I agree 100%. And not just for domestic soccer in the US, but in Canada too.
     
  6. kamosa

    kamosa New Member

    Apr 9, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I think one of the major sticking points of negotiations with the CBA will be improving the pay scale of low end players. In a way, it almost feels like the fault lines are the Owners and DPs vs the rank and file players. The vast majority of players would actually be financially squeezed by adding a second DP to each team, under the current system. So, either minimum salaries have to come up, a major increase to the salary cap or the dollars counted against the cap by the DP need to drop to around 250K per player.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. WestSeattle

    WestSeattle New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    kamosa has it exactly right.

    I don't think you can add another DP without a siginificant increase to the cap, or having the DPs count less against that cap.

    Beckham makes bank for MLS, but it also means more players "stuck" at a wage that is pratically poverty in cities like LA, San Jose and Seattle. It's certainly poverty in my book anyway, and I value our domestic program too much to treat players like dogs.
     
  8. alky13

    alky13 Member

    Jul 29, 2009
    Manchester/NYC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For the sake of the argument. What player would we be interested in getting. We have one of the best defenses in the league. Certainly a target forward would be nice. Any legitimate idea with the proposed cap raise?
     
  9. WestSeattle

    WestSeattle New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    If we're lucky we can hear Scott tell us all why we actually need another midfielder. Come on Scott! It's the offseason entertain us with your "we need more midfielders" speech, then dazzle us with some midfielder you just happen to know might be available.

    I promise not to mention the CBA for at least a week if you do!
     
  10. Main Man

    Main Man Member

    Jul 22, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Other than Alonso do we really have ANY midfielders? Seems like we have a bunch of converted forwards.
     
  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Umm... Evans, Ljungberg, Vagenas, Nyassi, and King. :) The only converted forwards are Zakuani, Levesque, and formerly Le Toux.
     
  12. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...

    Asked and answered.

    Actually to add nuance, we have Alonso and: an older guy who should be a forward now because he can't run the wing like he used to (Ljungberg); a college forward who is a liability in the defensive aspects of playing midfield (Zak), and a guy who the national team keeps playing at right back because he is not a top-25 U.S. midfielder (Evans). Throw in Levesque (a forward) and, last year, Le Toux, and you have exactly what Main Man just described.

    Yes, we need more and better midfielders.
     
  13. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Oh, I forgot about Nyassi, King and Vagenas -- well geez, with those guys terrorizing the opposition in the midfield we don't need any new midfielders at all. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey now.. I wasn't responding to them being quality, just that they are midfielders by trade and not converted forwards as Main Man implied.
     
  15. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know. Curse of the MLS, I think, that we even have guys like this on the roster. Nice kids -- well Vagenas ain't a kid anymore -- but it would be so much nicer to watch some soccer with four quality midfielders on the field instead of just Alonso, Ljungberg and two other questionable dudes.
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't call Evans questionable. He was pretty solid until Gold Cup. Then when he came back he wasn't really match fit and Sigi tossed him in at right back (which he definitely is not). He also had to deal with Ljungberg playing more of a Center mid role than a right mid. If Ljungberg had done a better job staying to the right, Evans would have had a lot more opportunities at the ball. However, since Ljungberg played more of a center mid role, Evans usually ended up deferring to Ljungberg.

    That being said, this team really needs a decent right mid. Shift Ljungberg to Center mid and get someone for right mid. I don't think that someone should be a DP though. We need a quality goal scorer to compliment Montero and I think that is where our DP spot should be spent.

    Speaking of Montero, has anyone heard anything about his contract situation? I understand that the rumors of MLS purchasing his rights this summer weren't true. Any chance of him coming back next year?
     
  17. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speaking of second DPs and a need for quality midfielders, wasn't it Ljungberg who suggested Paul Scholes as a possibility?

    Put him inside with Alonso, push Ljungberg up front in the withdrawn forward role that works so well in Sigi's system (see Baros Schellotto) and then you have something worth shouting about.
     
  18. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, it was Ljungberg that said Scholes would be a perfect fit for MLS. Problem is, Scholes is still a semi-regular with ManU, there's no way he'd come to MLS this season. If he gets to a point where he isn't making ManU's 18-man roster you might see him come over, but not before then.
     
  19. WestSeattle

    WestSeattle New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Well the good news is I get to continue to talk about the CBA.

    The bad news, is we're still not recognizing that our main weakness was providing crosses and service, it was finishing them. Ljungberg is better at midfield for us, because of his veteran experience, the position is one better suited to those of his refined skill. I know its not his primary position, but because he's got such class - he can use that to better advantage at that position. His finishing skills, also aren't what they used to be. I also think Zak services us well and will continue to improve. Alonso was MVP for the team I thought, and I said so in an earlier thread on the topic.

    The problem is, I concede, the last position in the midfield, Vagenas and Evans are not the answer. But I believe our real problem is the lack of a cutthroat finisher, with a killer instinct. Montero is still too young and timid with the ball in the box, Jaqua just too much of a clutz. Our distribution was there and our midfield defense was there - we just lacked the killer strikes that score goals. We missed an awful lot of "gimmes" this year.

    A second DP is also not the answer, not unless there's radical change to salary rules, but I think many of you would agree with that. I know I am in minority however when I say we need a deadly striker. Me and Joe Roth are the only two I know saying that. :)
     
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *coughcough* Yup. You and Roth are totally the only two people that think we need a quality striker.;)

     
  21. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are too tied to a system of two strikers -- which is not the system that has worked for Sigi in the past, IMO. You can't possibly argue that Guillermo Baros Schellotto was a true striker for Columbus. Yet it worked there very well with GBS behind Alejandro Moreno. I think the same can work for us, and in fact did, with Ljungberg in the GBS withdrawn forward role. We did much better with Ljungberg there and Jaqua outside than we did the other way around.

    I don't see how you get a "deadly striker" at MLS salaries. Still, if the team wants to go get Handball Henry to play striker as a second DP, I'd gladly change my tune and support a new striker as more important than a new midfielder.
     
  22. WestSeattle

    WestSeattle New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    You are quite right, I should have put an asterix on the word "deadly" with some kind of legal clarification:

    * The word "deadly" is used in the context of the draconian MLS salary structure and can only be perceived as 'deadly' in a league that pays most of its players laughable salaries.

    I do like a two-striker system, guilty as charged. I think Columbus worked for reasons that are just as important: depth and discipline.

    The Jaqua/Ljungberg change is a solid point, but ultimately not a long term answer. We played better earlier in the year with Jaqua up top, what happened (I think anyway) was he got hit with that dreadful lawsuit, he lost concentration, lost a little work ethic and had to be shifted simply to clear his mind and get him to focus again.

    Again, I know the point is simplistic, but the basic problem I saw last year wasn't distribution, controlling the ball at midfield or defending midfield. More often that not, our problem last year was beautifully delivered balls were squandered in the box. We gave away too many platinum chances to score. It cursed us.
     
  23. Ted Lyons

    Ted Lyons Member

    Nov 13, 2007
    Tucson, Arizona
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what this

    [​IMG]

    has to do with the conversation at hand.
     
  24. WestSeattle

    WestSeattle New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I was going to bring in a menhir as well, just to really give the thread some weight. :)

    What a nose!
     
  25. gblfxt

    gblfxt Member

    Aug 24, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    im in the decent striker pool as well, we can move the ball like nobodys business, we can defend like crazy, but we absolutely SUCK at finishing, drives me crazy.
     

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