28, sooner or later

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by Sport Billy, May 13, 2016.

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  1. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    You are the only one who isn't able to discuss from a source of knowledge, as it appears you try to avoid it.

    You make it seem like it would be a knife to your heart if St Louis got a team.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think MLS particularly cares about/wants fan involvement in their expansion process. It is intentionally murky and confusing because they want the flexibility to pull a Nashville out of the hat.
     
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  3. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    I'm a fan and have no problem keeping involved. Lothsor must not be a fan or doesn't want to consider the facts that are involved.
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Considering the public doesn't really have a say in expansion, I fail to see your point.
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe that both Atlanta United and NYC have control over gameday revenue.

    That goes for the Cascadia teams too.
     
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  6. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    I was speaking about the proposed NFL stadium in Saint Louis that was to be built in 2015 to keep the Rams.

    Garber expressed interest in putting a team there.

    Had that come to fruition the team wouldn't have had revenue control because they wouldn't have owned the stadium.

    I said I was surprised Garber would have bent the rules.
     
  7. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    Nope. I think it would be great.

    My frustration will be if they pick Sacremento after saying they want Saint Louis.

    Especially because they have a more than viable ownership group.

    Unfortunately that ownership group will not wait around like Sacremento as I have shown.

    In my opinion it is now or never for Saint Louis.
     
  8. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Do you think MLS is some government run program?
    It's a private company.
    Transparency isn't required, nor is it a good idea.
    They care about money. If breaking one of their "guidelines" means more money, they will and should do it.

    They don't care and aren't required to care about what you think.
     
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  9. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    You say "can't afford." Do you have any evidence that these stadiums drain money from the city instead of providing revenue?
     
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  10. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    The City is spending 178 million dollars to renovate the Enterprise Arena (where the Blues play) (even though the lease says the Blues are responsible).
    The Controller of the City fought this stating it would hurt the City's credit rating because they have issued bonds to pay for these improvements. The Do e at America's Center needs an upgrade and the City doesn't have the money to pay for it.

    Unfortunately thirty percent of the residents of the City of Saint Louis live at or below federal poverty guidelines.

    The City has most recently had trouble even picking up garbage. The City can't afford new garbage trucks or to fix the trucks they have.

    Probably more information than you want but hopefully that helps.
     
  11. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    It was more inaccurate information than I wanted, and it doesn't help.

    The city was supposed to set aside part of the ongoing revenue for upkeep in the future. When the time came, the city cried poor. The Blues went to court to make the city pay their share. The judge ruled in favor of the Blues. The city paid their part. The renovations were made. Because of this, the NCAA Tournament and NHL All Star are coming next year. That will add more revenue to the city coffers.
     
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  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would have been in the same situation as Seattle.
     
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  13. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah, I'm sorry, there isn't any "one size fits all" rule. Getting upset that different markets are given different hurdles to get over just shows naïveté.

    Life's not fair.

    Arthur Blank was able to articulate his vision for an MLS team that succeeded in MBS. The Detroit group was unable to do the same with Ford Field. Seattle is succeeding in CitiLink, but then while financially the Revs aren't losing money at Gillette, I doubt anybody in the league is happy with optics or economic performance of the team there.

    But the rules aren't the same for Kraft Soccer Group and the groups bidding for MLS expansion teams.

    Yankee Stadium is acceptable because it is freakin' New York City. That should be pretty self explanatory. But apparently it isn't for some people.
     
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  14. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    Have you read the lease. I have.
    https://showmeinstitute.org/blog/corporate-welfare/who’s-paying-160-million-blues-upgrades

    I think this proves my point.

    I look forward to your documentation proving yours.
     
  15. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    #4215 Lothsor, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    Except Paul Allen owned the Seahawks and was part owner of the Sounders.

    Stan Kroenke owns the Rams and would not have been part of the MLS ownership group.

    Just saying they would have been Seattle isn't very consistent.

    Sheik Mansour has a net worth of 17 billion dollars and his family is worth a trillion dollars.

    Stop saying that NYCFC doesn't have the money.

    The Yankee side of the equation is highly leveraged due to the New Yankee Stadium.

    Which makes me wonder why MLS allowed the Steinbrenners in if they didn't have the money.

    Or, play in Red Bull Arena. Preferable to Yankee Stadium. (Off topic).
     
  16. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    #4216 soccer daddy, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Centurylink is owned by Washington State Public Stadium Authority. National Car Rental Field would have been owned by St. Louis Regional Sports Authority, with the Rams and the St Louis as equal tenants (at least on paper).

    How would playing at RBA help NYCFC? Most New Yorkers consider the stadium inaccessible.
     
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  18. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    MOD NOTE:
    Lothsor and Soccer Daddy. Don't bring your crap from STLtoday over here. Stop your pissing match now or I'm going to have you banned.

    The lease to a hockey/football/basketball stadium has zero to do with "28, sooner or later"

    STAY ON TOPIC
     
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  19. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    #4219 Lothsor, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    The rules not being the same for Kraft soccer group and expansion teams is the problem. At least for me.

    If you can't afford land in NYC why have a team there?

    The Jets and Giants have NY in front of their names and play in Jersey.

    Stop acting like NYCFC can't afford land in NY.

    Sheik Mansour has a family net worth
    Do they go to Jets games? Giants games?

    Saint Louis Regional Sports Authority. I have never heard of that until just now.

    Trust me there is nothing regional about that body.

    I guess that is the former CVC?

    That is the same group that runs the Dome at America's Center.

    The City can't afford to run another stadium. From what I understand Seattle shouldn't be running a stadium considering their massive homeless problem.

    The other difference is I don't believe Centurylink was built for soccer(like Atlanta I am sure if I am wrong then you will correct me) like that stadium in Saint Louis would have been.

    So then the Sounders and Saint Louis wouldn't have revenue stream control. Correct?
     
  20. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    Yes it does.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a perfectly reasonable question and I believe Garber has said it was a mistake. MLS rushed the approval in the belief that approval for a stadium in Queens was a formality. Then de Blasio got elected.

    Yes but they both began life in the city and play in a stadium that is easily accessible by road and shuttle bus and has huge car parks for tailgating.

    They also have an older, wealthier demographic who are more likely to own cars and able to afford $100s for a ticket.

    They probably can afford land but each proposal or potential site has met with opposition. De Blasio is a populist. No way is he going to let them build on a public park or use eminent domain to kick local businesses out of a under-served neighborhood.

    The plan was to form an agency to own the stadium similar to the one in Washington State.

    Look up "National Car Rental Stadium" in Wikipedia.
     
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  22. soccer daddy

    soccer daddy Member

    dortmund
    United States
    Mar 26, 2019
    In a way it does, because it is why St Louis is the running for 28. St Louis would already be awarded a team if the city didn't try to pretend that the revenue from these venues wasn't viable. It put doubt in the voters minds, and they narrowly voted down the initial stadium proposal two years ago, which would have guaranteed acceptance into the League.
     
  23. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    If it was such a good deal for the City of St. Louis then it should have been a good deal for mls2stl.

    mls2stl could have realized the revenue.

    They didn't have the wherewithal that the Taylor's have.

    mls4thelou is a far more viable group than mls2stl.
     
  24. Lothsor

    Lothsor Red Card

    Oct 19, 2018
    It is the New York Red Bulls correct?

    I am assuming they have fans in NY as well? I know they started as the MetroStars.

    Are they wealthier than NYCFC fans?

    If Red Bull fans can get to Jersey why can't NYCFC fans?

    DeBlasio is a politician. Write a favorite charity of his a REALLY big check (or write him a really big check).

    It isn't that complicated
     
  25. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *facepalm* Because it is insanely stupid for NYCFC to play in Red Bull Arena when they already have a temporary stadium they can play in. Seriously, just drop it. NYCFC is just fine in Yankee Stadium until they get their own stadium. It also has absolutely nothing to do with St. Louis's situation.
     
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