2026 WC USA (et al): Worldwide Opponents Watch [all R's]

In between Gordon's goal and Fernandez' goal, Argentina had three open headers that went right at Pickford and were easy saves. And I thought: How long can England go on being this lucky?

 

But Argentina is the same way.. insufferable.. (Messi being the exception though he does get caught up in it sometimes).

They are a big futbol nation and with it comes a sense of entitlement i get that… but the way they act in victory is very immature, almost as if theyve never won shit before… Its clear that their “us vs the world” mentality and chip on their shoulder that they play with is probably what has enabled them to dig in and find results but holy crap… show some class

Even Mexico fans who generally are pretty obnoxious were on decent behavior for most of their hosting time.. they did their chant as they always do but there was hardly any extra curricular no sense from them for the most part… they generally stayed in good host mode and took their defeat graciously..

 

They are, which is why I don't hold it against Bellingham for slapping that dude.

There's lots to dislike about Argentina the team and Argentina the broader culture as well. People aren't entirely wrong about the arrogance and the racism ... though, like everything, it's basically become "internet knowledge" so it's simply become the only thing listed about Argentina. Racism and nazis! Clearly the sum total of a country!

But England fans are the worst. They really are.

 

Imagine how insufferable we'll be.......................................

When you win things, you're allowed be insufferable. I live here amongst Patriots fans for heaven's sake. Others sort of have to take it, and wait for the inevitable downturn when they can twist the knife..

[Since I've lived in Boston, since 2013ish.................the Patriots, Celtics, Bruins, and Red Sox have all won Championships. The Revs won a Supporter's Shield.] There's that security area at Logan Airport in Boston where they hang Championship banners from all the local sports teams. Its mere presence is insufferable for some.]

Argentina and its fans wear their hearts on their sleeves.

When you never win anything like England, constantly lecturing the rest of the world about the sport doesn't go over well. England actually didn't play that well this entire event. Maybe one half against Croatia was great.

If Argentina wins this final, they'll have won the last two Copa Americas and World Cups on the bounce. They should legitimately go down as one of the greatest generations ever. Even if that generation was mostly the magic of one player.

Do people remember that three year stretch when Messi & Argentina lost the 2014 World Cup final, 2015 Copa America final, and 2016 Copa America final? How everyone said Messi couldn't win the "big one" with Argentina. Long gone.

Without Messi, what is this Argentina team? I don't know. But who cares? They'll worry about that later.

 

When I visited Argentina the consensus thing I kept hearing from people there was “our country is a mess but at least we won the World Cup.” And also everywhere I went Maradona, Messi, and Pope Francis. And what people told me is there aren’t a lot of Argentinians who are globally known so there was a lot of pride for those who are. There’s obviously some of the issues you raised, the racism, etc. But it’s a very complicated country with a complex history.

 

I enjoyed my trip to Argentina, and like pretty much everywhere I go, the people are perfectly lovely.

I would say that the Argentinians I've worked with in the States are also perfectly fine but do tend to a level of arrogance, paternalism, definite sexism ... it's cultural, of course, like anything. But it's there and I know why it annoys people. Some of this is just common across Latin America.

There's also perhaps a bit too much pride in their European background compared to other Latin countries to the level that is problematic -- it is hard to ignore and I get why many of my friends are rooting against them on that point.

Of course, this is a stereotype as well. And they are far from the only one -- pretty much most of Eastern Europe / Balkans has a very similar racially tinged superiority to their culture -- really, Serbia? Hell, Spain is very much this way as well. And of course, Americans are not immune to arrogance or racism.

 

I have to wonder how much the smoke is going to affect the final. Right now it’s not looking good

they have to be thinking of contingencies if they can’t play. Climate change was always going to eventually catch up, and now it looks like it will.

 

Supposedly it's supposed to clear up after some rain but yeah, kinda worrying.

Maybe move it to Atlanta? lol.. I hope that's on standby at least.

 

tom wolfe..." when you're the top dog, everyone wants to bite you in the ass" ."just because your ass is bleeding, it doesn't mean you are the top dog"...norman mailer....

 

they've won some stuff in basketball and rugby too iirc. so, for a smaller country, they punch above their weight. that does seem to be about it; and yeah i remember talk of messi retiring from the national team without a trophy. hard to believe he is still around. but then, he doesn't do much but walk around most of the time. i don't know that they will be able to pull out a rabbit if spain goes ahead.

 

don't know. italy seems to be in a tailspin, germany too. hungary was once a world power in soccer, and the former soviet union was no slouch. we keep expecting germany to show up, but its been a minute.....and italy can't seem to make the big dance anymore.

 

In New York currently (though sadly the final is far out of reach for me to attend), but it’s already better today than it was yesterday. And assuming that will improve by Sunday (which the rain in particular should help with).

 

Italy seems to be the worst off. Germany at least has a couple guys who you could say are world class or near to it like Musiala and Wirtz. Brazil has some good players even if it's nowhere near enough. I've heard literally zero hype about any Italian players, but maybe my head is in the sand.

 

no, no thats fact. There is absolutely zero italian talent to be hyped about right now

 

Yeah Germany and Brazil have talent though it’s unbalanced and they aren’t on the same level of France, Spain, and England. But Italy seems to be a step down from that. They should still qualify for the World Cup but they’re in need of some long term structural fixes. I can’t remember if it’s been discussed on here or not but there’s also some discussion that it hurts them that it’s so difficult for their various immigrant communities to get citizenship.

 

What's the simple answer for why that is?

 

Still hazy here in Cleveland, but we no longer have the intense burning smell of yesterday. So, clearing up . . . I hope.

 

Thanks to you goth for the good news. Here in California we get a lot of bad smells me and it’s no joke.

 

"kids dont play on the street anymore" , I think was what I heard from one of their all timers, forget which one.

Seems plausible. Was in italy two years ago I for three weeks all over the dang place, and I did not see one single game on a street or in a field the entire time I was there.

 

It’ll rain tomorrow and clear it up

 

America??? Racist??? What???

 

They're going to take a dip, period, after he's gone, like Argentina did once Maradona age out and took every drug in Italy in the late eighties and early nineties. They made one last quality run at the worst WC ever (my first I watched from start to finish lol) WC '90....

'94: Round of 16
'98: Quarterfinals
'02: Group Stage (Group of Death, Argentina and Nigeria died, England and Sweden survived)
'06: Quarterfinals (with Messi on the bench and a goalie injury heavily playing a role in the game they lead and then lost after having to waste a sub on their injured goalie)

The Messi era really starts in '10 because Pekerman wasted him (had some sub appearances, and 1 start after they'd secured group winner status) at Germany '06, from there you've got....
'10: QF's
'14: Finalist
'18: This was the true disaster class, for whatever reason they were god awful, crashed out in QF's
'22: Winner
'24: Finalist or Winner

It's pretty wild that they've basically made 3 finals in their last 4 tournaments, and otherwise made runs to the QF's....you can also toss out to some extent 2010 because Maradona, lol, was the freaking coach for that cycle, so there was no chance whatsoever that team was maxing out its ability.

'18 is crazy weird: Iceland tied them, Croatia kicked their ---, and they were crashing out in the group stage if not for an 86th minute equalizer that knocked Nigeria out and knocked Argentina into the knockouts.

But yeah, it seems pretty clear to me that Argentina is basically an 8th-16th team in the world typically, and when they develop generational talents like Maradona ('78-though not called in through '94 before he's booted), and Messi ('06-'26), they play like a top 1-6 team in the world. Seems pretty clear, pre-Maradona, other than hosting in '78, and the nonsense 1930 tournament, Argentina weren't really much of anything beyond a top 8-20 team in the world, since Maradona, basically they've had two runs where they were a mega elite team, paired with a GOAT level mega star. When I look at their historical performance at the WC, that seems like who they are.

The Copa America angle is really weird:

They've got the most Finals appearances by 33%, Uruguay is on 15 titles, Argentina at 16, Brazil trails with 9, after those 3, the rates of appearances collapse to around 10, and titles to 2. .....

So they're a hard team to figure out historically, in terms of South American competition, they are clearly the best team in South American history, they really only have one period in South American history where they weren't totally dominant: 1975-1989, which strikes me as incredibly odd since that period encompasses 2/3's of Maradona's career?!?!, but whatever, Argentina seems like at the Copa America level from 1916-1973 were totally dominant, they had a dip from 1975-1991, which was interrupted for two cycles, then another dip from 1995-2001, and now they've made the final 6 of the past 8 tournaments in the twenty year period from '04-'24.

At the WC level it's more, just a recency thing: 1930, and 1978-1990 and 2014-2026 totally dominant, otherwise basically a QF and out side at best.

So post Messi, I can't see how they don't slip from 1st to 6th in the world the past 12 years, to an 8th-15th or something of that sort, seems inevitable. I also have noted that measuring ups and downs in Central and South America, it is helpful to look at the U20 level, Chile's run '12-'18 was foreshadowed by the U20's, same with Uruguay's '10-'18 at the U20 level, same with Colombia and Ecuador, you can look at Brazil and Argentina and also see the problem

Brazil made 5 Finals (3 titles), 1 semifinal and a Quarterfinal in the 7 U20 Tournaments between 1983 and 1995, essentially building the team that would make runs to the Final 3 consecutive times between 1994 and 2002, I think most would agree Brazil had decent to good teams making QF runs and a SF run between 2006 and 2018, and in the 8 year stretch between 2003 and 2011, Brazil made 3 runs to the final and 1 Semifinal run in 5 cycles.

So what's happened since? 2013-2025, which would have theoretically produced the talented which filled up the ranks at WC '18, '22, and '26, they failed to even qualify for 3 of the 6 tournaments, got knocked out in a group stage in a 4th, and made one QF in another and were a finalist in one.

So it kind of illustrates it right? The 1980s and early to mid 90's Brazil U20's were constantly making deep runs, and those teams produced 3 power house WC sides, and a very good '06 side. Since then they produced a solid but not as good generation of U20's for 8 years, which produced the QF and SF sides of '10-'18, and now the past 15 years, as they're team has slowly fallen apart, they've flat lined at the U20 level.

What about Argentina? In six of seven tournaments between 1995 and 2007 they were dominant, that basically formed that Batigoal, Zanetti, Riquelme and Tevez Argentina's of '98, '02 and '06, in the 7 tournaments from '09 to '23, they failed to qualify 3 times (got given a host duty when a host fell out in '23), and crashed out in the group stage twice, they advanced past the QF zero times in 7 tourneys, and that is basically the team responsible for feeding this generation. Somehow Messi kept it going as the youth teams have sputtered, but I do think for people a bit worried at the scale of collapse, it was promising that they took 2nd in South American qualifying in '25, and finished runner up at the '25 U20 WC behind Morocco.


A lot of babble, but I do think you can see some elements of why Ecuador and Colombia have gotten better the past few years (you can see it based on U20 performance upticks) same with Uruguay, who have survived the losses of Forlan, Cavani, and Suarez to some extent.

Based on what I see, it seems like Ecuador should be okay, and Uruguay too seem like they're still pumping talent in (at the U20 level they've basically been finishing top 3 in Conmebol U20 Championships for 19 years straight until '25 when they finished 5th. They were 2nd in '23, '3rd in '19 and Champs in '17.

To my mind, anyway, it seems like Brazil and Argentina are waking up a bit at the U20 level, Ecuador had a nice run '17-'23, which seems to have fed their current team (2nd place, 1st place, and 4th place finishes in South American qualifying). Colombia you can see the current generation with '13-'15: 1st ('13), 2nd ('15), 6th ('17), 4th ('19), 3rd ('23) and 3rd ('25) at the U20 regional level.......

What this says going forward? Maybe Argentina and Brazil are waking up, they finished 2nd and 1st in Conmebol qualifying, Argentina made the Final, Brazil had a group stage exit but they were in a group of death (Morocco winner, and two QF's in Mexico and Spain), Colombia finished 3rd in the tournament. Uruguay and Ecuador disappointed failing to qualify, so we'll see.

But for now anyway, I definitely think it's Colombia and Ecuador, Brazil probably is flat or gets better for '30, Argentina probably falls off, I'm not sure about Uruguay. I'm not really buying Paraguay, if they do anything at Copa America, I'll start paying attention and not think it's a 2 year blip, there's not enough evidence to suggest that its sustainable.

But yeah, what this tells me is my favorite past time, watching CAF, should be your attention on WC '30 because CAF probably has the best chance of pushing deeper surprises in four years, rather than South America's 1st or 2nd tier, and Japan may be good, but their best players are almost all similarly aged to our Pulisic through Richards '97s to '03's group so maybe older not better.

 

One thing to keep in mind about Argentina pre Maradona is they also sat out like 3 World Cups they could have participated in and done a lot better in. Not to mention Di Stefano ending up playing for Spain instead of Argentina because he was banned from them for playing a few games for Colombia. He never played a WC for Argentina because of all that silliness.

To me the question is as much what happens after Messi but also what happens after Scaloni? The Argentine FA have a knack for completely botching manager appointments, which is ironic giving how many they supply to the rest of the world. They lucked into Scaloni. Mascherano was out there wasting their youth teams in this same period.

 

I think the evidence suggests that you guys will continue to be a top 2-3 team in Conmebol Qualifying for WC '30, but I think that will be more because Colombia, Uruguay and Ecuador are all likely to be older rather than better, just like you guys, and Brazil, if they do transition well, will probably still be a cycle away from peaking w/this next group in '34. Paraguay feels like Iron Pyrite, Chile, Bolivia, and Peru all still stink, Venezuela probably should have been the playoff team and if they had been, I think they knock out Iraq and qualify, but they're ceiling is still probably 6th or 7th at best.

So if I were to predict how things play for the '30 cycle, it's probably:
1st: Brazil
2nd: Argentina
3rd: Ecuador
4th: Colombia
5th; Uruguay
-----------------------
6th: Venezuela
7th: Paraguay
--------------------------

I think Uruguay could be as high as 3rd, but I'm gonna bet on Ecuador maxing out this generation with this cycle if they can find a striker.

I think the WC. results, pending seeing the draw, are probably QF and out at best for all of Conmebol's best sides, I don't think any of them make a run to the Semif's or further next cycle, the talent just isn't there at the right ages, and UEFA has France, Spain, and England pumping out talent factories, and a second tier of Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, maybe Italy finally wakes up, and the tournament is Mediterranean based, so UEFA shouldn't have the same scale of slippage though it does get hot in Central Spain in summer. I think that will be a UEFA WC dominated tourney, I do think 1-3 Conmebol teams make the quarters but they will all die there unless the draw is friendly. I'm paying close attention to Ivory Coast, Nigeria, DR Congo, Morocco and friends that cycle to make a run. Not sure about Cape Verde, but I do think Cape Verde has more of a youth tilt than I realized, and I like keeping an eye on DR Congo and Cape Verde based upon how the FIFA rankings help them make their way into Pot 1, maybe, instead of some traditional sides like Mali or Tunisia, perhaps.

Will be interesting but yeah, I think Argentina falls back to where they were '94-'10, rather than '14-'26, and '78-'90.