Post-match: 2026 FIFA World Cup Draw; December 5th - 12pm

Every team is beatable, but to put things in perspective for you..
We lost in worldcups this millenium twice (in regular time, not after a penalty shoot out), in WC 2006 against Portugal in the notorious Nürnberg Battle (1-0) and the final against Spain in extra time 1-0). So in 23 matches only lost twice to top countries.
The thought you could beat us, if only Puli had scored his chance is simply wishfull thinking.
We simply arranged your team on the pitch twice the same way to score identical goals.
Argentina thought they beaten us with 2-0 ahead and the ref helping them major league, but in the end needed an extra time and a penalty shoot out to get passed us.
The last 12 matches we didnot lose, but after a penalty shoot out.
Just take a look at the countries we met and think again you could have beaten us:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_at_the_FIFA_World_Cup
Anyway, I find it amazing this match still being talked about.

 

I think you miss top mattering matches as frames of reference to assess the state of the USMNT compared to the top countries.
In the mean time, or better since then we battled with Germany/France/Spain etc.
So you keep on about a match that has actually no importance at all/anymore for the current competitive standing in the world.

 

You’re in the wrong place if you don’t want to see discussion about U.S. matches.

 

Maybe he is but he brings a dose of reality that if only Pulisic had scored early we would have won. Of course it would have put us in a much better position but I could see us playing desperate defense the rest of the game and we weren't good at that. Any way we had a very inexperienced team with no depth and this time we're more experienced with much better depth. We'll se if that makes a difference.

 

No, this particular match "discusion" is just a repeat of what has been posted before, I might say by the same posters.
There's nothing new that gives insight on either the match or what it means for the current situation.
I'm just amazed by the repeated same things for over 3 years now.
You simply lack meaningful matches against worldclass opponents to discuss.
It's telling that of the three years matches, this one still pops up as a talking point, while it in my opinion doesnot mean anything anymore, but the matches in the last 18 months actually do.

 

Concacaf matches and friendly call ups from years ago are still discussed here, so obviously World Cup knockout matches will be revisited. It doesn’t have much to do with the Netherlands specifically or where they rank on the world class chart.

 

Well I have to say, the trope about the Dutch being blunt and arrogant is ridiculous. You seem like such a thoughtful, gracious fella.

 

None of the above, I've been watching the Dutch for 34 years, they are one of my side teams (Denmark, Ireland, Canada for familial ties, I hate England fans too much, to support that team for a similar reason, then Sub-Saharan African teams, Japan/South Korea for my friends and students, and the Dutch because of the uni's and the joy of some of their better teams going back to Cruyff in the seventies, the Euro '88 winners, Bergkamp and the '98's etc). I definitely liked the '98's, the '02's who didn't qualify through the '14 squads better than the '18's or '02's. They just weren't at that level, even the '02 team that got knocked out by a UEFA Group of death (Euro '00 Semifinalists who pushed the finalists to extra time and penalties and the best Ireland team of the past 25-30 years) were definitively better than the Dutch '22 team, they were just unlucky in the UEFA Qualifying Group stage draw.

As for the keeping on, I'm simply trying to correct the record, which a lot of people argue that way to exculpate the coach, rather than to speak honestly about the game, or the players.

 

I know, I read them too, but what keeps me wondering is the why of it, as those long ago matches are irrelevant for the coming WC, whether it was against us or any other one.
A bunch of new players are presenting themselves, so in my opinion the matches in which they played should be the topic of discussions, not bygone matches with opponents that will have largely new formations, while your team will have too.
You're not going to learn lessons from those long ago matches to be used now.

 

The Dutch weren't better than '09 Spain, '22 England, or '14 Belgium.

Absolutely, upsets happen. The US did not put its best foot forward in that match. You have to give yourself a chance.

 

It just changes the game state, the Dutch then have to decide if they need to keep going with a plan that's a good plan (which it clearly was) or if they need to adjust because you don't want to be down 1-0 less than 10 minutes in. If Pulisic scores his chance, it forces LVG to make hard choices, and it allows us to play differently too, or simply keep pushing with more confidence. We don't know what would have happened, maybe they win 5-1, we win 1-0, they win 2-1, or we win 3-2, who knows, but it does change things, same with our coach actually taking the right striker, instead of starting a 5 foot nothing guy against perhaps the tallest back line at the WC etc etc etc.

It's a game with a huge amount of variables, and there are a lot of people who want to just push a simplistic and in some cases, flat out wrong, perception of "Dutch Players better, American players worse," angle, which also avoids the huge difference in scale of the coaches talent lol, seemingly deliberately. Its interesting because it's a weird knockout that doesn't have the feel of '14, or '02, but does have the feel of '10, where coaches errors, really put the team in a bad spot for very similar reasons (tired team playing against a team with more rest, and a team you can't afford to make key XI mistakes against: Ghana in '10 and the Dutch and LVG in '22).

 

I can understand the urge to push back against certain opinions, but in the end it's the here and now that really matters going into the coming worldcup.
Bygones are bygones and speculating about what .. if..is pretty useless, especially when one looks at our WC stats.
Simple message is you need to be better to succeed this time to beat one of the serial last 8 of any WC.
So chances in the WC should be looked at from the honest perspective of current available players, their form in club and in the national team matches now and growth in tactical and technical ability, put against the teams going to be faced.

 

I can see how, being the strongest nation never to win a World Cup, you wouldn’t want to reflect on past results and just let bygones be bygones.

 

Agreed.

The 2022 Netherlands team was on another level than the American team. The idea that it Puli had scored would have somehow led to a win is wishful thinking.

The Netherlands is a perpetual contender. The USA has had a few rare results over top competition in world cups. We’ve still got a ways to go…

 

Anyway, for the Dutch team it doesnot matter if the selection available is comparable to the Dutch elite teams or not. When we are present in a WC, we've proven to be very hard to beat for the top teams.

Yup, focus on the new opportunity.
We don't go back to the Cassilas big toe save in the 2010 final, or the semi-final 2014, or the Argentine match 2022, what's the use.
It's the here and now that matters, with a new opportunity.
Bet alot USMNT fans would love to have at least one of those 3 bygones.

 

You are literally too Dutch to insult.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. But my point was simply that they were the better team, period, and while the Dutch were not a juggernaut, they also were clearly the more talented team.

We lost because they out-executed us. There was no massive tactical edge. They are a very good executional team and did so, and we were sloppy.

Some people think we should have bunkered more; I don't. Some people like to pretend that attacking down the wings is some masterclass by Van Gaal or some massive weakness that Berhalter missed. One, that's not even where all the goals came -- the center was a bigger issues and Two, yeah, it's basically everyone's defensive plan these days to prioritize the center defensively over the wings.

That's all. I'm sure some level of fatigue played some role in the sloppiness, but I'm not going to blame it all on that, especially the timing.

But even if we had played better, they were the favorites. Most of the commentary on it acts like we should have won -- that only if Berhalter had rotated or Berhalter had done whatever basic tactical change they can often fail to describe, we would have won or should have won.

Nah. We could have won, for sure. Every game is winnable, frankly. But the Dutch played well which means we would have not only have had to not play poorly, but play above our average as well to compete.

 

Holland would have won that game 9 of 10 times.

Let’s hope the US is better prepared and executes better this time.

 

I've skimmed this thread but haven't read it all, so apologies if this has already been covered. If the US wins their group, who are their likely opponents in the R32? The charts says a 3rd place team from BEFIJ, but in reality it's likely to be from group B. Of the 495 3rd place combinations, 329 have us playing group B. That's 66.5%.

I propose it's even higher than that. I wrote some software the simulates the world cup. It uses ELO ratings to represent team strength, and "plays" each game of the tournament. It's not a sophisticated model but it produces reasonable results. Anyway, I ran 10,000 simulations. If the USA wins group D, here are the most likely opponents:

Canada 18.3% of simulations
Italy 18.2%
Switzerland 17.8%
Wales 16.6%

(The model "plays" the playoffs for each simulation. That's why both Italy and Wales show up here: sometimes Italy wins the UEFA playoffs and finishes 3rd in group A, and sometimes Wales does the same thing.)
After that it drops off to teams with less than 4%. There are 28 possible opponents, although some are extremely unlikely. Adding it all up, my sim says that there's a 75% chance it'll be the 3rd place team from group B.

 

I know you will never agree with this, but that Netherlands side was a top team in almost every respect.

If you go by results, they were ranked #4 in the world by Elo heading into the World Cup, and #3 heading into the match against us.

If you go by club pedigree, 9 of the 11 players who the Netherlands fielded against us had, either in the 2022-23 season or within two seasons of that either way, started regularly for a top 5 club in a top 4 league. By contrast, since you've cited them as better teams, the Portugal XI we faced in 2014 had 3 players who had started regularly for top 5 clubs in a comparable timeframe (Ronaldo, Nani, and Beto), and the Ghana XI we faced in 2010 had 2 such players (Asamoah and Boateng).

The Netherland's back 5 included a player voted the best defender in Europe and the best player in the Premier League that cycle (van Dijk), a starter for an EPL and Champions League winning Man City (Ake), a current starter for arguably the best team in the world right now (Timber), and a Serie A Best XI defender who has started two Champions League finals this cycle (Dumfries). Plus Blind, who started regularly for 3rd place Girona in La Liga the year after the World Cup.

 

Thanks for doing that. It's part of why this draw has been overrated. That's a fairly difficult "third place team" to play an elimination game against just to get into the Round of 16.

That said, maybe the upside is that we don't have that great a chance of winning the group!

 

If you go by elo ratings, WS scores, league rankings, etc., then there's no need to play further games. And we already know which teams have the better players. But teams don't always perform on the day. Sometimes they underperform. Other times they completely bottle the opportunity. Still, other may have the match of their lives. In that sense, the issue is whether the manager had set the US in a position to put his best foot forward against the Dutch. I don't think he did. Who knows whether it would've changed the scoreline, which isn't the point, really.

There is the easy example of the MLS Cup match. Miami took by far its lowest possession percentage in a league/play off this season. They made sure to give up only 1 corner. The limited fouls in the most areas of the field. Vancouver still had the superior xG, the great disparity of which was covered by the 95th minute Miami goal when Vancouver were scrambling to tie it up at the end. But Miami gave themselves the best chance to win the game. Gregg didn't do that for the US.

 

This is the USMNT board and a World Cup thread. People are going to discuss the most recent World Cup match. Also, fans of a team that has played a total of seven World Cup knockout matches in its history, winning one, are going to obsess individual R16 matches more than fans of a powerhouse national team do.

 

That's the whole point to discuss now, how is the team as a whole, in what composition of players mix, doing in recent matches. What tactical points of attention are there to adress both as a team, but also from an individual players pov, do you see from those matches.

 

Okay, you got a point.