You're romantic view of sports integrity is about 50 years out of date. It's a business. For instance, the top East African runners don't even peak for the Olympics or World Championships any more because they can make more money in the Diamond League or Fall road races.
There is a big difference between the league as a whole and the top 2 or 3 clubs. Taken as a whole, or if one looks at the median club, MLS is absolutely top 10 in the world. Now, the total figures are obviously skewed by the size of the league. But even mean/average attendance & mean revenue figures paint a top 10 league. If you go median, it is even more so. But many leagues have bigger clubs at the top. Celtic, Galatassary, Al-Ahly, Benfica, Ajax, America, Boca, etc. And those super clubs tend to skew the average. But the middle team in MLS is much better off financially than the middle team in those leagues. Average Revenue per team (mean). 1. EPL, England, €387 mil ------------ 2. La Liga, Spain €262 mil 3. Bundesliga, Germany €247 mil 4. Serie A, Italy €181 mil ------------ 5. Ligue 1, France €115 mil 6. Brasileirao, Brazil €93 mil 7. MLS, USA/CAN €77 mil 8. Premier League, Russia €66 mil 9. Championship, England €44.1 mil 10. Bundesliga2, Germany €43.7 mil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue
So am I. One flows from the other. But the top/median/mean point applies there as well. There are no concrete data points for quality of play throughout a league. #10 in MLS clobbers #10 in the Saudi League or Turkish or Holland. But not the TOP team in each league.
The Eredivisie, Belgian Pro and Primeira are so top heavy its ridiculous. They're just not competitive. Montreal would have the fifth highest payroll in Portugal. Porto, Sporting Lisbon and Benfica only lose to each other. I really don't want Miami to became a Bayern. I'll take a bit of mediocrity. Then again I watch a lot of EFL League Two so most things are a step up.
Braga sometimes beats the big three, but usually lacks the depth to truly compete for the league title. At least Hearts is making things interesting in Scotland for now. I guess the league is really not happy with Philadelphia raining on the big spenders parade this season...... It's a shame too. US Soccer had a nice little showcase at Subaru Park this evening, the very place where 4 of it's players in todfay's squad got their starts. You'd think MLS would be telling that story.
You’re mixing up competitiveness with quality and they’re not the same thing. MLS fans often overvalue parity because it’s a core feature of US sports but globally the standard for league quality are : technical level, tactical sophistication, player development, squad depth and international results - not whether the 10th-place team can upset the 3rd-place team. Top heavy leagues is normal in world football. The Eredivisie, Liga Portugal and Belgian first division consistently produce: • better players • better coaching • stronger clubs in international competition • better talent pipelines than MLS. That’s why their “top-heavy” leagues still export players who walk into top-5 leagues something MLS is only beginning to do. Pointing to Miami not becoming “a Bayern” is exactly the American-centric framing: valuing engineered parity over actual footballing quality. Montréal having a high payroll in Portugal doesn’t prove MLS is better, it proves payroll parity doesn’t automatically create better squads, academies or tactics. You can have parity and mediocrity at the same time just like you can have top heavy leagues and elite quality.
Wait, we can’t pay them in authenticity? Borden loves to spend OPM, other people’s money. It’s an unrealistic viewpoint.
These statements are difficult to prove/disprove since leagues never compete against each other as a whole. The spotlight in competitive sports, rightly or wrongly, is always on the very best a nation or league has got to offer. And it doesn’t all just boil down to money. There are multiple factors. The Leagues Cup could have been a very interesting tournament, with equal travel and hosting conditions for both leagues. But that’s not what we got.
You can have parity and quality, Americans preferring not to see Bayern Munich dominance by one team isn’t some fundamental flaw in the formula.
The fact that it's been 41 years since oil-rich Aberdeen, under Alex Ferguson, broke the duopoly, despite Rangers going bankrupt and having to restart in the 3rd division in the meantime, says everything.
Look at the OPTA rankings, which are the closest we have to an unbiased ranking of teams, which takes CWC records and player history into account. Louisville City are ranked above 6 Saudi Pro teams. Comparison of MLS, Saudi Pro and USL Championship.
I'm British, so there's that. And to be honest I don't care about the EPL because it's all about who spends the most money. I was in a household of Liverpool fans but I wisely decided to switch to a better team. American fans see things from an American perspective because they're American. As for academies, PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax have brilliant academies and they suck up every talented youngster before they're 15 which further exacerbates their dominance. There's no reason why Red Bull, NYC or Philly can't be just as good. They've certainly invested the money, it's just a case of getting the raw materials, which tend to be distracted by, you know, NBA, NFL and a free college education.
There’s more than one route to “actual footballing quality,” not to mention the subjectivity inherent to that phrase. For instance a lot of USMNT fans worship the Serie A despite no UCL titles for that league in 15 years. Global soccer is more complex than Europe = the best even if the best is found in Europe.
So LAFC are big Miami fans, right? If they beat NYCFC, that would guarantee they qualify for next year's CCC based on the double qualified rule of the remaining teams?
I wasn't claiming #10 in level of overall play, which includes the big fish, but median team quality. Outside of England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, and Brazil, I think the median team in MLS is as good as, or better, than anywhere else. The bottom quarter almost certainly is. The Dutch league? Portugal? Turkey? Belgium? Scotland? Not close.
Again, MLS certainly has a ways to go in tetms of player development & recruitment & identification. Some clubs are further along than others, and the league certainly lags behind most other big clubs in this regard. But most MLS clubs realize this and have been making strides. QF at the U20 World Cup with a convincing win over France. The infrastructure and facilities are top 10 quality most places (not Colorado, sadly). OPTA has MLS tied for 12th. https://theanalyst.com/articles/strongest-leagues-in-the-world-opta-power-rankings-june-2025 And again, this is inclusive of the big fish. A mean average. Median for MLS will be higher due to the flat revenue and no extreme big fish warping the average. 1. EPL, England, 92.6 2. Serie A, Italy, 87.0 3. La Liga, Spain, 87.0 4. Bundesliga, Germany, 86.3 5. Ligue 1, France, 85.5 6. Championship, England2, 80.9 7. Jupiler League, Belgium, 80.5 8. Premeira Liga, Portugal, 79.8 9. Serie A, Brazil, 79.4 10. Eredivisie Netherlands, 78.8 11. Liga Proffessional, Argentina 78.6 12. MLS, USA/CAN, 78.5 13. Liga MX, Mexico, 78.5 I believe this is from June 2025. And I'd note there is not a lot of distance between 6th/7th and 12th.
Moving the schedule is a sign MLS thinks it is ready for the next stage in growth. Now, IDK if they are right or not, but the $$ men were near unanimous. The stadiums and training facilities are largely in place (a few stragglers and pointy ball situations aside). The Academies are all up and running. The league has grown leaps and bounds from 1996. IDK where OPTA had us ranked 20 years ago but I am betting it was lower than 12th.
You wish. because you know little about how leagues actually perform. Excelsior Rotterdam beats Ajax in Amsterdam, should have beaten the twice last year. Telstar beats PSV in Eindhoven. I've been reading dismissive comments in US threads about Go Ahead Eagles as being shit. They beat PSV twice last season and kicked them out of the KNVB Cup and beat AZ Alkmaar in the Cup Final. They beat Aston Villa in the Europa League , who pay each of their players more than GAE pay for their whole team and Panathinaikos in Greece. Etc. etc. NEC was one of those "easy to clobber by mls clubs" based on their ranking in the league table and the mantra "mls clubs only are less then the top 4".
Given your track record in the old P/R thread you really shouldn't be making statements like this (though again, given your track record, I'm not surprised you are).
I'm pointing to the absurd stance that in our leagues, the top clubs only are beaten by the other top of the table clubs, which isnot true, but also to the idiotic next conclusion..#10 in MLS clobbers #10 in the Saudi League or Turkish or Holland. But not the TOP team in each league You don't know that.
We always read those type of comments but for the entire MLS league not just one club. Unfortunately there isn't a competition where they can play each other to really find out how they stack up. A lot people rate the strength of a league based on the top clubs (like Ajax and PSV) and think the entire league is just as good when that isn't true. Maybe in a CWC a random MLS team will play Ajax, PSV or Feyenoord if/when they qualify to see how they measure up. Very doubtful any other club from the Eredivise will qualify to a CWC, unfortunately.