Koroleva did a quarterfinal this year with Meghan Mullen as an assistant. Though I agree that it's somewhat funny to have female VAR and RAR, but male 4th and AVAR.
Watching the USOC final. 19th minute penalty is something. The FOUL | Brian Schwake#USOC2025 // FINAL pic.twitter.com/57Dk29OqZL— U.S. Open Cup (@opencup) October 2, 2025
Yeah, that’s the giveaway that this was not just a coincidence. @MassachusettsRef suggests that this appointment was the default because of the need to give the game to one of the crews slated for big international assignments, and to keep that crew together. I don’t think history supports that argument. 2024: Villarreal, Greeson, Howard 2023: Freemon, Blanchard, Brown 2022: Touchan, Klinger, McKay 2020 and 2021: not held 2019: Chapman, Poeschel, Urania 2018: Saghafi, Blanchard, Atkins 2017: Grajeda, White, Bigelow 2016: Toledo, Hurd, Wienckowski 2015: Unkel, I. Anderson, Conlee 2014: Villarreal, Manikowski, Parker 2013: Guzman, Quisenberry, Tovar There’s no pattern of assigning a ‘World Cup crew’ in the USOC Finals that occur prior to World Cup tournaments. In fact, I think the only one on the list that even had a trio of FIFAs is 2016 [my memory is foggy on some of the earlier years], and you’d hardly call Toledo, Hurd, and Wienkowski a top international crew in 2016. 2023 is close but Freemon wasn’t a FIFA yet, and it’s also a bit of a special case being one of Messi’s first big finals in the US. Even in the one MLS Cup in relevant history where the assigned referee was slated to attend the upcoming World Cup (2022), neither of the two ARs were in his international crew. I just don’t see any evidence that this appointment “had” to go to Tori Penso, and even beyond that, definitely no reason it “had” to default to Nesbitt and Mayo as ARs. If it was just Penso we could say ok, USOC Final is usually an assignment given to top-performing MLS referees and ARs on merit, maybe she was just ranked highest. But the chance of that being true for all three is pretty low. It’s unlikely this is just a coincidence. I do wonder if there are some legal workings going on here? I mean, discrimination by gender is still illegal in the United States, at least to the extent that anyone would want to challenge it and can prove it in court. I think a 6-0 sweep makes for a much easier lawsuit than 4-2 does. My hypothesis is they’re just trying to protect themselves.
That's not what I said. And I definitely did not argue that history would support me; in fact, I was implying the exact opposite. Meaning, you should elevate your top World Cup candidate(s)/international referees in your domestic cup final heading into a World Cup year. It should be the default. But I'm on record having criticized the way Eddy and USSF have handled these assignments for years. So, no, history wouldn't support that. I said we'd be praising Eddy for this assignment and seeing the big picture precisely because in the past I don't think he has. Penso absolutely is the default/sensible option this year. But, no, USSF hasn't made the default/sensible option in most years.
Yeah, I think it's pretty easy to say that a different VAR sends that down. That's not a penalty in the VAR age. We've seen just in the last week that even England has come around (or is coming around) on this.
Second one much more of a penalty. Attacker lets himself fall forward when he feels the hands, but that's on the defender for allowing him goal side and blatantly putting the hands there after being warned. She has to call that even if it's embellished. I will say that the you're crowding me/only-the-captain signal is counter-productive if you're simply using it to avoid dissent cards, rather than set them up. Yes, she gave one after the penalty was converted, apparently. But she used it on both actual penalty calls with very little effect.
Again at 80/81' as she uses it to tell Nashville she's not giving a 2CT to Austin's captain. At this point, players know they won't get booked for dissent in a crowding situation. Or, if they do get booked at this point, it won't be consistent. Also, this is really starting to heat up.
I feel like that's kind of backwards: Performances should dictate who gets the top assignments. Obviously, World Cup appointments is on a longer cycle than annual domestic finals, but ideally, your top international refs are also your top domestic refs. That's not always the case, of course, but I think it's a meaningless accolade to give someone a domestic final just to make their international resume look better. Long way of saying I'm not sure if I agree with the statement I quoted. Their performances should do the talking, without needing the added help. I would agree with that statement. It's been close to a 50/50 split of appointments that seemed merited based on recent performances and ones that didn't. But still, She isn't "absolutely" the only sensible option. Chris Penso, Guido Gonzalez, Bazakos was one of the top performers at least last year (don't know how he's doing this year), Mendoza would have been a great choice, Pekmic, Rivas, maybe Vasquez, etc.... I mean there's just no way you can say that Penso was "absolutely the default/sensible option this year." She's one of many justifiable candidates at best. And when you through in the same two ARs, it really doesn't seem like anyone else had a fair chance at getting this assignment (again, even when Elfath got 2022 MLS Cup to elevate our top international ref, he wasn't working with Atkins or Parker). -------------------------------------------------- So let's assume it was a "elevate your 2026 hopefuls" assignment and nothing more. Still, 1) that's not necessarily the right approach; my earlier statement "pretty hard to believe that anyone else ever had a fair chance…" still applies, and 2) Even if that is the case, it's still impossible to totally separate that from the gender question because Penso's crew wouldn't be in line to go to World Cup 2026 to begin with if not for their gender. There's nuance here because Penso's situation is not nearly as contrived as Frappart's in 2022, but it's obvious she isn't on the list as "just another American referee" because, among other things, why would Dickerson be getting rushed in as a potential fill-in for Elfath? Let's not forget that Penso's pretty safe status on the 2026 list stems at least in part from her biggest international accolade, the 2023 WWC Final. I don't want to detract from her positive international performances since then which have justified her inclusion in the list, but it's impossible to ignore that she has gotten a lot of special opportunities (from one assignor in particular) that it seems simply weren't available to her male counterparts.
So in other words, even when IFAB tries to make yet another way to stop dissent, the refs are too cowardly to do anything about it. Also in the game, surridge got a 2CT, and this was the first yellow that he “claimed to not know he had received”. You see penso show it to him while he’s walking away while pointing at him. I feel like it should be protocol to make the player aware and looking at you if you card them https://streamain.com/en/Vymoi3DUYUjgusE/watch
To be fair here, he seemed genuinely surprised it was red when he got second yellow (and it appeared Penso needed to be reminded in her ear, as it took a bit to produce). Plus the video does show he had his back turned the whole time when the first yellow was shown. I agree with you broadly, but I think in this case most of the evidence points toward Surridge genuinely not knowing he was on a yellow.
I would posit that you've spent far more time thinking about how USOC assignments should go in this post than USSF leadership has over most of this century. There are plenty of debates to be had around this. One truth here is that USSF leadership has barely paid attention to MLS performances over the years, so that's been fun. There just hasn't been much strategic thinking around these assignments. I stand by my initial position that elevating your World Cup referee to the domestic cup match (particularly if he/she hasn't had it yet) prior to the World Cup is a default/sensible move.
And just to piggyback on my own point here of elevation... to the extent Collina or anyone else was watching here and/or that matters, I am not sure Penso helped herself for next year. Obviously, she's going. But the next question is whether or not she'll be trusted with bigger matches or even a KO game. Penso has been good in MLS and good, from what I've seen, in CONCACAF qualifiers. But she hasn't been really tested on a major, heated, men's KO game before (at least not to my knowledge--and if she has, I would argue a USOC Final is bigger than whatever else that was). Last night, she gets the first PK wrong. She gives a soft second PK (I believe she had to give it, based on how everything unfolded there, but I think it's also undeniable it's soft). She kept using the "only the captain" move and never followed through. And she initially didn't realize, it seemed, that a 2CT was actually a 2CT. She landed the plane. I think she had good foul recognition. There were positives. But in a setting where she knew the players but the pressure was somewhat elevated due to the stakes, you could see some cracks. That doesn't mean she was poor at all. But to the extent we're talking about outsiders watching to assess if she has what it takes to make that next leap, I don't think this performance was that, unfortunately. If you did this in a group stage game next year, I don't think you're then getting a KO match all things being equal.
I just don’t quite understand what is gained from these procedures refs are doing, like giving a no-look card or not at least calling attention to the player to issue the card. Doesn’t England do the long drawn out process? That’s better than this. And it isn’t even like you do it to issue the card quickly so the restart can be quick. Once they show the card you still have to write everything down and restart with a whistle except for quite rare cases. So now you have a major final where a player claims he didn’t know he had the yellow, which sure they claim a lot of things, but why even allow the chance for confusion?
The good news is, I doubt Collina or any of his underlings are sitting down to watch the US Open Cup Final. Are they even going to be aware of what happened in the match at all? They’ll probably just see the fact that that she refereed the domestic cup final and that’s all, which of course is the point. I agree with you, but it’s not so much about what’s to be gained by trying to isolate the player as what there is to lose. There’s no guarantee that the player will kindly turn around and accept his yellow card with grace. He could refuse to turn around, refuse to walk towards the referee, argue more with the referee, or do whatever else to try to dissent to, undermine, or show up the referee’s decision. In the immediate heated moment, there’s less to lose in the short term by showing it as he’s walking away and assuming that he either hears you verbally announcing the card, assumes he’s getting one anyways, or that somebody else from his team will make sure he knows. It also is partially the team’s responsibility to make sure the player knows he’s on a yellow, too. But I agree that it’s best practice to make sure a player always knows he’s booked for just this reason.
I cant say for sure if this is procedure in the USOC, but in MLS player cautions are announced on the PA.
Obviously I have no way of knowing his actual viewing habits but I think, overall, you're likely wrong here. Stipulating that he and FIFA are in the midst of the U20s so I'll concede he didn't likely watch it live or may not prioritize it in the immediate term. But yes, I am somewhat confident that he will take a look at this match.
Are we forgetting that an American crew did the Women's World Cup Final and an American official was the 4th on the Men's World Cup Final? Let's not forget Atkins, Nesbitt and Parker in the booth, too. USA is not exactly in the same place it was refereeing wise it was 20 years ago.
Wouldn't there normally be serious discussions in the committee about who should get the Final each year? I get it that the meeting may not last a whole day, let alone many days. But I imagine it's not like the committee chair comes in and says "Let's go with Referee X this year", and everyone immediately agrees and the meeting ends. I'd be surprised if the committee (or whichever group of people is responsible for this assignment) doesn't discuss and deliberate in greater depth than @StarTime did here.
Sorry, how is this relevant? The question is about how ready Penso is for major men’s matches next year. The CWC assignments this summer indicate she has a ceiling at the moment. Anything she can do over the next six months or so to raise that ceiling is the goal. And this was one of the biggest stages she has to help do that.
You should be surprised then. I’ve encountered USSF Ref Comm members that admitted to quite literally not watching MLS while simultaneously making the decisions on who gets or keeps a FIFA badge. I understand things have improved under the most recent chairman. But historically it’s been almost comical how little some of the members actually seem to care or know about professional-level referee matters. Nothing I’ve ever witnessed indicates a lot of foresight or strategic planning goes into USOc late-round assignments.
I understand what you mean. What I was getting at is that the broader context matters too. Twenty years ago a USOC Final assignment wouldn’t have carried much international weight, but today the perception of American refereeing is very different. FIFA now views American referees as credible options for the biggest matches now more than ever and with that, the pedigree of WC Final matches along with everything else, should help move that needle further than ever.
Okay. They may be better off hiring you, @StarTime, @RedStar91, @Mikael_Referee, or some other posters on this board to help with their strategic planning then
https://www.uslchampionship.com/new...5sLVJHbZ15kcCIcGmQ_aem_C0CDUG8Ri8eCUNtBflV4AQ that poor 4th official: Las Vegas forward Vaughn Covil, who was not listed on the matchday roster, entered the match in the 84th minute. As a result of fielding an ineligible player, Rhode Island FC has been awarded a 3-0 victory